Can I apply seeking to a throwing shield?
Can I apply heartseeking to a throwing shield (still a melee weapon, like all shields), and then get the benefit when I throw it?
What really constitutes a melee weapon or a ranged weapon?
From PRD: "Ranged weapons are thrown weapons or projectile weapons that are not effective in melee."
Not clear if this means that thrown weapons that are effective in melee (dagger, spear, etc) are not ranged weapons.
And if you have Throw Anything, then everything becomes a ranged weapon... :)
This is where it gets complicated:
From the PRD:
This shield is designed for throwing and has specially designed straps that allow you to unclasp and throw it as a free action. Tower shields cannot be throwing shields. Neither a shield's enhancement bonus to AC nor its shield spikes apply on your attack or damage rolls. A throwing shield can't be disarmed.
It looks like a throwing shield is enchanted as armor, not as a weapon. But shield spikes *can* be enchanted as a weapon... but it's not the shield spikes that are attacking but the shield itself.
My gut feeling is that by RAW you can't enchant it with seeking or other weapon enchantments. But conceptually I'd allow it in my own game.
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Seeking: Only ranged weapons can have the seeking ability.
Hearthseeker:This special ability can only be placed on melee weapons.
Some weapons are ranged and melee weapons and that causes problems. I would read the enchantment description in another way:
Seeking: This ability only works for ranged attacks.
Hearthseeker: This ability only works for melee attacks.
Problem solved.
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Looks like no one has a clear ruling available.
RAW, it looks like either enchant would work and both would apply to both melee and ranged. Hmm.
My gut feeling is that by RAW you can't enchant it with seeking or other weapon enchantments.
You definitely can. Shields are weapons in their own right, no need for spikes. Just look in the "weapons" table. Shield spikes don't "enable" enchanting on a weapon.
In a similar vein I've wondering if certain feats like Cornugon Throw, which involves throwing a spiked chain at someone could then count the weapon as a ranged weapon to get 'returning' put on it as an enhancement.
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In a similar vein I've wondering if certain feats like Cornugon Throw, which involves throwing a spiked chain at someone could then count the weapon as a ranged weapon to get 'returning' put on it as an enhancement.
I would rule that unless the item itself is a throwing weapon (not reliant on a feat/class feature), you can't get ranged weapon enchants. So, even if you have Equipment Trick (Shield), you can't put returning on a Heavy Shield unless the shield in question is a Throwing Shield.
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In a similar vein I've wondering if certain feats like Cornugon Throw, which involves throwing a spiked chain at someone could then count the weapon as a ranged weapon to get 'returning' put on it as an enhancement.I would rule that unless the item itself is a throwing weapon (not reliant on a feat/class feature), you can't get ranged weapon enchants. So, even if you have Equipment Trick (Shield), you can't put returning on a Heavy Shield unless the shield in question is a Throwing Shield.
This. Otherwise, you could put Agile on a longspear, because a Phalanx Fighter 3/Swashbuckler 1 could use it as a finesse weapon one-handed.
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This. Otherwise, you could put Agile on a longspear, because a Phalanx Fighter 3/Swashbuckler 1 could use it as a finesse weapon one-handed.In a similar vein I've wondering if certain feats like Cornugon Throw, which involves throwing a spiked chain at someone could then count the weapon as a ranged weapon to get 'returning' put on it as an enhancement.I would rule that unless the item itself is a throwing weapon (not reliant on a feat/class feature), you can't get ranged weapon enchants. So, even if you have Equipment Trick (Shield), you can't put returning on a Heavy Shield unless the shield in question is a Throwing Shield.
*blink blink*
Oh my god, that is a hilarious combo.
You definitely can. Shields are weapons in their own right, no need for spikes. Just look in the "weapons" table. Shield spikes don't "enable" enchanting on a weapon.
They can be used as weapons, I agree.
It's being enchanted as weapons that's in the gray zone. You can't use the shield enchantment bonuses as a combat bonus (unless with the bashing ability which has its own rules), and the wording of the throwing shield makes it that normal shield enchantments are distinct from weapon enchantments.
So now I'm thinking that any offensive enchantments are tallied separately on shields. So a +1 shield is only +1AC but not to-hit/dam, but you could conceivably have a +1/+1 shield that does both. It would also give rise to a defending weapon equivalent enchantment for shields (offending shield?) where the defensive enchantment could be turned into a combat bonus.
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You definitely can. Shields are weapons in their own right, no need for spikes. Just look in the "weapons" table. Shield spikes don't "enable" enchanting on a weapon.They can be used as weapons, I agree.
It's being enchanted as weapons that's in the gray zone. You can't use the shield enchantment bonuses as a combat bonus (unless with the bashing ability which has its own rules), and the wording of the throwing shield makes it that normal shield enchantments are distinct from weapon enchantments.
So now I'm thinking that any offensive enchantments are tallied separately on shields. So a +1 shield is only +1AC but not to-hit/dam, but you could conceivably have a +1/+1 shield that does both. It would also give rise to a defending weapon equivalent enchantment for shields (offending shield?) where the defensive enchantment could be turned into a combat bonus.
There's no gray area, and you're correct. The two are tallied separately. You've pretty much summed up the correct interpretation almost perfectly.
In a similar vein I've wondering if certain feats like Cornugon Throw, which involves throwing a spiked chain at someone could then count the weapon as a ranged weapon to get 'returning' put on it as an enhancement.I would rule that unless the item itself is a throwing weapon (not reliant on a feat/class feature), you can't get ranged weapon enchants. So, even if you have Equipment Trick (Shield), you can't put returning on a Heavy Shield unless the shield in question is a Throwing Shield.
Yeah that's what our DM for Curse of the Crimson Throne ruled.
Shame there isn't an enhancement that could make a weapon count as a thrown weapon and then take returning on it. Like a +1 throwing, returning spiked chain would be a +3 enhance or something. *shrugs*
Well a Spiked Chain doesn't have a range per se, just the feat Cornugon Throw lets the user throw the chain to make a trip attack with a range increment of 10ft.
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Well a Spiked Chain doesn't have a range per se, just the feat Cornugon Throw lets the user throw the chain to make a trip attack with a range increment of 10ft.
In this case, the spike chain is not a ranged weapon, and is not eligible for ranged weapon enchantments.
If it was enchanted with the Throwing enchantment then it would become a ranged weapon, and then be eligible for ranged weapon enchantments.