Peanut Butter and Chocolate: help me choose classes that work well as pairs

[The Human Diversion]

My girlfriend and I really enjoy playing Pathfinder, specifically Pathfinder Society. We have two pairs of characters that we've been playing together but both pairs are high level and we can't keep playing them forever.

What are some class (archetypes too!) combinations that go well together? They can be the same class (the butterfly's sting combo, for example) or completely different classes (a controller/buffer arcane and a barbarian).

[Deadmanwalking]

Archer Bard + Barbarian is a really solid combo. Courageous weapons all around, stacking bonuses, and utility, healing, and a lot of skills all taken care of.

As I mentioned in another thread Skald and Slayer go really well together, too, for a lot of the same reasons (though both are probably melee characters in that pairing).

Master Summoner (or any Summon focused character) and Bard or Skald also go together brilliantly, for obvious reasons.

[TGMaxMaxer]

I have a couple in my local area who have a massive con Life-link oracle and a 2W Fighter blender that work amazingly well.

The oracle shares half the damage, has almost as many HP, has channel and swift heals on himself somehow.

The TWF is a solid damage dealer especially now that she has gloves of dueling and Weapon Training.

I have a massive buff bard (aasimar with FCB to inspire boost), and my friend has a natural weapon Tiefling Ranger/druid (going for rage/pounce/smite at level 9). Now it is good, at 9+ it will be insane. (+7attack/+6damage and an extra attack for 3 fights a day, while all enemies in 30ft are at -2) on a character who has 6 attacks a round with a 26-28 Str already.

[Gravefiller613]

The Vanilla Inquisitor syncs well with other classes.For theme pairing with a Paladin or Cleric covers the holy warriors angle. Ranger for the Monster Hunting angle. Bard, rogue, ninja, or alchemist for the skilled and trcky theme. Summoners, Conjuration school wizards or any class with a focus on allies can benefit from haaing an inquisitor about.t

You can get a lot of mileage out of shared judgements, the spell that yields teamwork feats to your allies. the inquisitor has a lot of versitility and can be built to change for the situation at hand if you need an everyman/woman.

All honesty though; go inquisitor and arcane duelist bard. You will have plenty of tricks and will be able to add to any party you join.

[Malwing]

Me and my girlfriend once made two halfling cavaliers with Order of the Dragon. Having two martials with two pets and multiple tactician uses between them can get pretty good. We also had fun boosting each other using aid another+Order of the Dragon and the fact that we had the same teamwork feats made working in tandem interesting.

[prototype00]

Might I suggest something with a lot of attacks, good accuracy and two keen scimitars (so ranger probably) with the Butterfly Sting feat

and...

Power attacking Barbarian with a Scythe.

That x4 critical will be one shotting things into your teen levels.

prototype00

[Deadmanwalking]

prototype00 wrote:

Might I suggest something with a lot of attacks, good accuracy and two keen scimitars (so ranger probably) with the Butterfly Sting feat

and...

Power attacking Barbarian with a Scythe.

That x4 critical will be one shotting things into your teen levels.

prototype00

Kukris are better than scimitars for this first one, being light weapons (and that Slayer and Lore Warden Fighter are also solid for that build). And Magus is definitely on par with Barbarian as your scythe guy, maybe better (especially a kensai...though use of a light pick might be better in that case).

[Revolving Door Alternate]

Especially try to make use of the teamwork feats. So the classes that have bonuses/benefits for teamwork feats are especially appealing. Inquisitor, cavalier, and hunter all benefit from teamwork feats.

Some 2 person teams I've been considering:

• Special forces types. Sneaky but can still fight. Lightly armored and fast. Team work feats for stealth, perception and flanking.
  Rage casters. Skald and a rage prophet. Teamwork feats for casting and saving throws.
  
• Drake brothers. Blood of dragons in lineage. One a bit more martial the other a bit more casty. So a bloodrager with the draconic bloodline. The other a barb/sorc with the draconic bloodline (maybe eventually the dragon disciple PrC). Not sure which teamwork feats would work best with this.
  
• Outsider brothers. Same as pervious with abyssal or pitborn bloodlines. Not sure which teamwork feats would work best with this.
  
• Opposed but friends. Primitive and high tech. Big brute true primitive or natural weapon martial and small ginslinger/alchemist using a firearm to launch bombs (grenade launcher). Not sure which teamwork feats would work best with this.
  
• Controllers. A pair of lore warden or monk types that specialize in combat maneuvers, combat patrol, reach weapons, grapple, trip, disarm, disruptive, etc… to stop opponents from doing almost anything. Seems like there are some teamwork feats to make use of AoO and combat maneuver bonuses. I'll look them up later.
  
• Cavalry. A couple of tengu riding axe beaks just makes me smile. But you won't get too much use out of them in PFS due to size. You'd get a bit more consistent use out of a couple of Halfling Order of the Paw dog riders. One a bit more focused on lance charges and the other a bit more focused on mounted archery (but both can do the other at need).

[The Human Diversion]

Revolving Door Alternate wrote:

Cavalry. A couple of tengu riding axe beaks just makes me smile. But you won't get too much use out of them in PFS due to size. You'd get a bit more consistent use out of a couple of Halfling Order of the Paw dog riders. One a bit more focused on lance charges and the other a bit more focused on mounted archery (but both can do the other at need).[/list]

We actually have two small mounted characters right now, a halfling paladin with the shining knight archetype riding a dog and a gnome druid with a level of fighter riding a medium tiger. The gnome doesn't dish out as much raw damage as the paladin, but has higher utility.

[Atarlost]

Grippli (if it doesn't require a boon, probably ratfolk if it does or gnome if both are out) Sohei on a combat druid. With mounted Skirmisher the Sohei gets to full attack after the druid moves and the druid reaps the benefits of monastic mount. Using a small monk allows the combo to start at level 4. This can also work with a mounted fury barbarian (gnome in this case).

Two reach gish builds will also work well together, especially if one is a bard or evangelist cleric. You can separate to control more ground or stand back to back to create overlapping zones of control.

[Kyrrion]

Deadmanwalking wrote:

Archer Bard + Barbarian is a really solid combo. Courageous weapons all around, stacking bonuses, and utility, healing, and a lot of skills all taken care of.

Bard + Barbarian? How would that work? Doesn't Rage prevent the use of Bardic Performance? Rage states that you can't use Charisma based skills, and Bardic Performance states that you use a Perform skill to use the abilities.

[bigrig107]

They're making concepts for two different characters, two different players.
Not multiclassing.

[Deadmanwalking]

@Kyrrion: What bigrig 107 said, mostly. This is a thread about pairs of characters who work well together, not multiclass characters.

Though I'll also note that there's a thread in the rules forum currently arguing whether what you just said is correct.

[downerbeautiful]

My boyfriend and I have done the partner characters before. We've found teamwork is more about character and player interaction than it is about class.

We started with a dwarf and an elf barbarians with racial hatred for one another. We built them up to twelve together; they were "friendly" rivals, as demonstrated when the dwarf paid for the elf's raise dead.

Then we had, albeit coincidentally, a gnome cavalier and a gnome paladin who worked together for a while. A shift in GM responsibilities and death broke them up. It was good to charge into battle together.

Also by happenstance we built unarmed fighters, one a halfling unarmed rogue, the other a dwarf grappler barbarian. They worked... And had abilities explode right around the same level. They, also, had some competition together. Later, the halfling rogue and the first dwarf barbarian joined forces and took teamwork feats together.

Now we're building human worshipers of Erastil who are mad dog barbarians with ram animal companions. They're archers who plan on going with the evangelist prestige class to acquire the raging animal copy that's a part of the obedience given early via the prestige class. With animal companions who are bodyguards and lookout on both of our characters and their companions, we should have a good time getting into the surprise round. The teamwork feat enfilading fire, possibly followed up with opening volly, would sync well. Story-wise, they meet at level two, get married by three, have the lady pregnant by four, and a family of three around retirement time. (Look how far we've come: from adversarial characters to partnerships.)

I guess me point is this: your classes have less to do with teamwork than you credit them for. Being the bard or healer to someone's front line character (playing "second fiddle" in so many words) gets a little old a little fast. Your characters, story-wise, should work together. Take teamwork feats, too, since you plan on playing them together, but try to avoid the "I am just here to support your endeavors" characters. They are not all that multi-faceted and often somewhat misogynistic. I have run those characters with my boyfriend, and they're somewhat necessary, but not fun to play. Also, when you can't heal enough, when you didn't get haste and performance up, or whatever, it's suddenly your fault. Share responsibility. Play equal, and equally competent, characters. Please don't pigeonhole yourself, or her, into something inferior because it makes the other character better. In the long run, that disparity can lead to hurt feelings and contempt for the character, for the game, and, worst of all, for the person playing the stronger of the two characters.

[Black Feather]

There are loads of two-person teams that could totally wreck something like PFS modules.

The reason being, they're less lethal generally because you often never know who you're going to be playing with so you need to design accordingly (generalize not specialize).
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One classic is Luck domain cleric + Zen Archer. The ZA can flurry every single round with his bow, and the Luck domain cleric can use a standard action to let the ZA roll twice for every shot. Not only that, but as a cleric you've probably a high enough Cha to have Flagbearer feat and if you're the Evangelist archetype you can use Bard Song too.
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PFS means necromancer zookeeper types and master summoners are out mostly, so I can't do one of my favorite D&D tricks with a "wall of bodies" easily. However, a caster-build summoner or druid shaman (so as to get standard-action summons) + a good buffer & / or protector almost does the trick. If you both throw down summons and you regularly party with a buffer / skill monkey type (I know a few in PFS) you'll pretty much walk over any challenge.
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Two (multi or single-classed) Sohei both with the Lookout feat can wreck any surprise round for anyone who's not them. Gunslinger 3 / Weapon Master 3 / Sohei 6 means they can both flurry in the surprise round...with guns...

[Silent Saturn]

The person you should really be asking this to is your girlfriend, since she's the one you'll be building these characters with. Best advice I can give you is pick a strategy first and then a pair of classes to support it.

If you both want to do melee, any two of Inquisitor, Cavalier, Hunter, or even Fighter would let you two stock up on teamwork feats (most of which want you to be in melee) and help guide you toward a set of common tactics.

For a pair of casters, it's as easy as making sure you two don't overlap on spell lists. One of you can go arcane, the other divine? One grabs all the AoEs, the other loads up on single-target save-or-lose spells? One debuffs and locks down while the other blasts?

If you want an "opposites attract" build, I always thought it'd be cool to see a glass cannon archer or caster paired with a reach-weapon build. The fragile one stands next to the polearm wielder at all times and controls the battle from range while the polearm partner wrecks anything that enters the Zone of Death. If the fragile one is a caster, Enlarge Person really sells it. It's a nice pairing (in theory) because neither one is really the "sidekick"-- in one fight, the reach fighter might just play bodyguard while the glass cannon carries the fight, but then in another fight the cannon's main contribution is a timely buff to the reach fighter, who then crits for every point of damage ever.

[KestrelZ]

Summoner and cleric (or summoner and life oracle, or summoner and druid).

Everyone is a 3/4 BAB character with access to magic. Both can make more buddies to fill the field with. Summoner's weakness is a lack of healing magic that a cleric / life oracle / druid can provide.

Unlike "Angel summoner and BMX rider" (look it up on You Tube if you like), the cleric / life oracle / druid can add a lot of ability to a dynamic duo.

Cleric and life oracle are interchangeable, druid can be made into a wild shape specialist to be a smash monster - or just a divine spellcaster that is equivalent to the cleric.

At the end of the day though, it's the GM that has to revolve a campaign around you and your girlfriend's characters, so technically anything is alright so long as both of you choose what you like and have fun with it. The best team isn't what class or race you choose, the best team is the one that can work in harmony.

[Scott Wilhelm]

I LOVE Attack of Opportunity builds: working alone, they are very powerful, working together they are synergistic.

The link between you would be the Paired Opportunist Feat. What that does is if 1 of you get's an Attack of Opportunity, then you all do and at +4.

Let's say 1 of you gets Shield Slam, Great Bull Rush, Paired Opportunist, (say through 3 levels in Inquisitor), and Combat Reflexes.

You both Flank your victim then you Bull Rush them in with every bash of your Bashing Klar (2d6 damage!), your girl gets an AoO when the poor creature bumps into her and falls at her feet. Then you get an AoO because she did, and you Bash him again and the fun goes on and on.

When that poor bastard tries to get up, you both get AoO's again, and you can Bash again, and the party goes on and on.

What might she get? A Tripping build? Greater Trip, Vicious Stomp, Fury's Fall, Combat Reflexes, and Punishing Kick?

If you are flanking buddies, then you should both be getting Sneak Attack.

Level 3 Inquisitors and swap out their teamwork feats as they need to. One of them, Precise Strike gives 1d6 Sneak Attack Damage.

Another idea is if both of you get something like Scent and Blind Fighting. Then share an Eversmoking Bottle. Everyone will be Blinded, but you guys will ravage the battlefield whenever you are fighting creatures that use their eyes.

Orcs and half orcs can get Scent via a Feat.

Catfolk can get it via an alternative Racial Trait.

Dwarves can get Tremorsense at the cost of 2 feats.

Anyone can take Blind Fighting, Improved Blind Fighting, and Greater Blind Fighting.

Alter Self can give you Scent, and so can other spells.

Maybe one of you can use a Reach weapon.

One of you could use a Tower Shield.

Just some ideas for synergistic builds.

[Blueluck]

I think it would be fun to play a pair of ratfolk with sneak attack. rogues and ninjas have sneak attack, but to avoid duplicating abilities too closely, I'd make one of the two a vivisectionist alchemist.

Quote:

Ratfolk are used to living and fighting communally, and are adept at swarming foes for their own gain and their foes' detriment. Up to two ratfolk can share the same square at the same time. If two ratfolk in the same square attack the same foe, they are considered to be flanking that foe as if they were in two opposite squares.

If the rogue/ninja takes the scout archetype, they'll get sneak attack after charging or moving, then the vivisectionist can move into the same square and use flanking to deal sneak attack damage. A few of the teamwork feats that benefit sneak attack are better than average, and the infusion discovery will let the alchemist share formulas with the rogue/ninja.

[Dark Immortal]

A friend of mine and I play pfs together and for the next 5 weeks he wants to try playing characters that work well together (before he leaves for school).

He wanted to play some sort of blaster but we decided that two negative channeling clerics was the way to go. He will take Command Undead and selective channel early. I will take selective channel and shatter resolve early. GM's should hate us.

At level 2 we'll have to change races to whatever they actually are supposed to be (mine is a Tiefling) so it will be a bit of a dead level. And at level 3 we resume the shinanegans of level 1 but with more dice and possibly an extra feat.

All enemies taking 4d6/round at level 3 sounds immensely fun. Animating those fallen enemies to help us fight future ones and then healing the animated dead while hurting the living bad guys should prove very solid.

[The Human Diversion]

She and I have decided!

We will be playing a brother/sister arcane pair. I am playing the older, "natural" spellcaster, the Sorcerer. She is playing the younger, "has-to-work-for-it" arcanist.

We've taken the Allied Spellcaster feat and we're pondering other feats as well, but that's for another day.

I do have a final question, can someone recommend a good, updated guide to building a sorcerer? I'd prefer to play something that can dish out good direct damage, and I do admit that I enjoy occasionally min-maxing. I wouldn't mind focusing on an element, and I'm fine with archetypes as long as they're PFS legal.

Thanks for all the advice, great responses in this thread!