How to deal with someone in PFS (rant)


Advice

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First of all, I'm trying to avoid straight violence, so can we avoid this in the suggestions.

That being said, this guy often complains and regularly espouses the view of not wanting to play with me because somehow he feels my OPness is preventing his roleplay. Funny thing, I'm not minmaxing.

Half Orc Barbarian:

Scarred Rager 4/ Thug 1

Str 19
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 8
Wis 10
Cha 12

Racials
Sacred Tattoo
Intimidating
Weapon Familiarity

Traits
Rager of the Society
Indomnitable Faith

Feats
Weapon Focus (Greatsword)
Power Attack
Dazzling Display

Rage Powers
Superstition
Lesser Beast Totem

BAB 4
CMB 8 (10)
CMD 20

Rage 19

Equipment
Greatsword +1
Breastplate +1
Cloak of Resistance +1
Silk rope (50 Ft)
Cold weather gear

Attacks (w Power attack)
Greatsword +8 (+10) 2d6+13 (16)

Claws (+8/+8) 1d6+10

Diplomacy +8
Intimidate +11 (+13)
Perception +8
UMD +9

In many ways, very much not optimized. Still he complains about my brokeness and makes note of it every single time I show up with this character.

I've tried modifying behavior at the table too.

I stop Raging.

I stop Power attacking.

I GRAPPLE WITHOUT THE FREAKING APPROPRIATE FEATS SO OTHERS CAN FEEL USEFUL AND THEY STILL SIT THERE AND MISS WHILE FLANKING ON A GRAPPLED OPPONENT.

He's tried complaining about my lack of character and I've shown him the entire backstory (I'm working on getting better with my tough guy persona).

Bleh, whatever, at this point I'm not sure if I should tear my hair out or his.


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Dude sounds like a problem. Have you talked to anyone else at your... lodge, or whatever the proper terminology is, about him?


What is he playing?


Arachnofiend wrote:
Dude sounds like a problem. Have you talked to anyone else at your... lodge, or whatever the proper terminology is, about him?

No, and thus far I've tried to keep from screaming at him about it too, so I'm mostly just trying to keep my frustration to myself and work out a way to make him ok with my character.

Edit:

Squirrel_Dude wrote:
What is he playing?

A blaster wizard. Though mostly he just uses magic missiles. I think I've seen him cast a scorching ray once.


I don't think you're going to be able to make him okay with your character; once these cranky scrubs get it in their head that you're cheating there's nothing you can do about it.

Talk to the head honchos in your area, if he's being disruptive at the table about it I doubt you're the only one who's having problems with him.

The Exchange

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You need to talk with your local VO. If you dont know whom that is, there is a list on the PFS page under Events.

The Exchange

Has the GM had any input over these discussions?

Are you breaking any rules in creating him for PFS?

Tell the guy to fix his character rather than tell you to change yours and leave it at that. You could offer advice on how his build could be more effective as well, though he may take insult at that.

If you really want to try and reverse things, start complaining that he's not pulling his weight, and keep asking why his character is so bad. (Don't actually do that, it's the equivalent of a 5 year old saying you stink worse than me).

If it's seriously ruining your enjoyment then its time for a mediation of some sort.

In those situations though, you really need to know what you want out of it. You already sound like you're happy to moderate your actions in the game to keep everyone happy. If this guy isn't willing to do similar and you can't get support from others in the game, then it may just be easier to try and pick up another game. Changing other people to match you is very difficult indeed.

Unfortunately, this is the very reason I don't play in organised play any more. It doesn't provide me the game I want as I often run across the odd player who absolutely clashes with my style and can be quite rude about it. I'm lucky that my game style tends to suit quite a few players in my area and we've managed to create gaming groups independent of PFS. Not sure you're in the same boat.

cheers


Yeah, not exactly min maxed. It is a barbarian at low levels that didn't put all 20 points into CHA. So fantastic, but not game breakingly so. If he can't deal with martials that are decent at low levels, then what was he expecting?


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Yeah, I know the Venture Captain.

-sigh-

Thanks guys, I'll try talking to him directly and asking him to stop bugging me about a perfectly legal character, and if he doesn't leave me alone I'll take it up with her.

Shadow Lodge

Obviously your character isn't the problem, so don't continue focusing on that. It isn't min-maxed, but it is optimised - that might be it, but that's hardly a problem on its own.

How is he complaining? To your face? Passive aggressive at the table? Making specific points? Has he avoided your table?

Simply put, you can either work out the problem with him directly or just not play at his tables. He'd likely point out something specific about your character being OP (hopefully), and if you recognise it's not OP, instead of trying to argue that it isn't, point out what he can do to improve his.

And when you talk to him, try not to be angry or argumentative or passive aggressive about it - keep the tone of the conversation helpful.


Joke Advice: start throwing daggers. If he complains still, tell him his d4 attack(magic Missle) is worse, cause it auto hits and has a huge range. ;p


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"If you don't want to play with me, GTFO."

Then completely ignore him.


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Well, if you want to go the passive aggressive route, make the worst possible ineffectual character you can (say: rogue 2, monk 2, sorcerer 1, who uses a whip and has feats that give skill bonuses), and then complain about how overpowered their character is.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

If it were me, I'd say, "Well, what do you want me to do then?" and then tell him he's being unreasonable if he gives an unsatisfactory answer.

But the others are right. He's not playing/building his character right and accusing a better player as a munchkin. The entire point of the wizard is to do things that martials can't. If he's throwing magic missiles at the guy that the barbarian can easily handle, he's doing it wrong.

Indeed, you're making the right decision to ask him to stop bugging you and then talk to the venture captain if he continues his behavior.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Don't try to 'get back' at him. That just causes an escalation.

It sounds like you've tried talking to him, so perhaps try getting an outside opinion from one of the GMs or the local VO. Find out what they think.

Hopefully they know this other player and have some suggestions on how better to handle it. Just getting someone else who is aware of the situation and being able to talk to them can help reduce your frustration quite a bit.


He doesn't say things to me directly.

Our PFS is pretty big, we run 2-3 tables every other sunday, a couple on tuesdays, and sometimes still have to turn players away because we don't have enough room.

So when you show up, you ask either the Venture captain or her assistant which table you're supposed to be at. He just keeps making remarks about not wanting my character at his table, and the one time he gm'd for me he mindcontrolled me and forced me to attack a couple of the other players in the party.

Barring the fact that I didn't think that was possible in PFS, I'm pretty sure I've run that scenario with a different character and it didn't do that. At the end he was joking that I was the most dangerous encounter in that game (nearly 1 shotted our cleric because we were level 3's and 4's and then turned around and used claws to dish out 31 points of damage to party fighter. There were some circumstances giving me a strength boost beyond my control there.)

His main complaint has been I shouldn't be doing the damage I'm doing until level 16 or so.


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Tell him he's just being a spoiled baby. There is nothing wrong with your character. There's nothing particularly optimized with it.

That guy just sucks at building/playing characters and want others to join the suck-club.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

ignore him, and then take your anger out on the NPCs... get it because your a barbarian, puns.

Sovereign Court

Thomas Long 175 wrote:

...

His main complaint has been I shouldn't be doing the damage I'm doing until level 16 or so.

I think you've been given good advice on how to handle the guy.. namely ignoring him other than asking a VL to calm him down.

This comment of yours however has me curious about how familiar this guy actually IS with Pathfinder. 2d6+13 once per turn is godawful damage for a mid level barbarian, let alone a high level one...

I kind of suspect that he thinks wizards are supposed to be the kings of DPS, and isn't taking the transition from 3e (or whatever he's more used to) to Pathfinder very well (where spell damage is most certainly NOT the king of damage)

Scarab Sages

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Regardless say something to you VC in the area i think, If its enough that you have noticed it, something should be said. Especially if he DM's games. If your sure of your build, have your VC check it for any mistakes, so then he has absolutely no leg to stand on later. Do not get violent, that never ends well... good luck I hope things work out well!


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Your barbarian build is decent. There is nothing earth shattering going on. You rage and hit hard, like your class is supposed to. Does he know that a +17 on damage is considered easily achievable for a level 8 Two Handed fighting character? As for his whining I would just ignore it.

Next time comments about your damage being too high for your level, try pointing out how low your will save and AC are to balance it out.

Honestly I would also ask why he is making his weak choices with his characters and present the better options, but I am also not as good a person as I should be.

"Yes my damage is pretty absurd for a wizard, good thing I am a barbarian. Why didn't you go transmutation again? That school has dome awesome save the day spells." I am not as a nice a person as I should be.

Liberty's Edge

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From what you say, you seem to have the opportunity to participate in a large number of games. If you and this other player can't get along, play at different tables , DM PFO scenarios yourself, or organize a home game where you don't have to invite the other player. Why get yourself aggravated?

Grand Lodge

Simple, explain to him that the game exists for players and gm's to have fun. He should be here to have fun. You are there to have fun. Your character is completely legal and Pathfinder is cooperative play. He should not be worrying about you and you would appreciate that he stop making any comments out of character. If he then makes comments in character, have your orc play it up like he is some sort of god of war (even if not). Play. For. Fun.


You aren't min/maxed to the Nth degree, but your character looks pretty optimized to me. I don't mean that as a bad thing.

Rager of the Society, little iffy and not likely to be noticed as you level but the extra rage while low level gives some breathing room.

Weapon Focus Greatsword may look iffy since you also have claws. Claws right now are strictly better if you get a full attack, but probably rarely used since little would survive a swing from your greatsword, and you'll forget about your claws once you get iteratives anyway as the beast totem line is taken to get pounce.

Cha is not dumped so your intimidate doesn't suck at earlier levels (and having a social skill is nice in PFS), and sure you can explain it as it fits the theme of your character anyway. I don't see how intimidate gets bumped to 13 though, but I could be missing something.

I'd bet even money your next feat will be intimidating prowess. Rage would effect intimidate then.

Thug taken to make intimidate better - AoE fear based on a DC instead of a save? Yes please.

This is not negative critisim - I like the build, it looks solid and would be a fine addition to any party.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Cheesy munchkin is what I have done with my second witch. Through the use of boons she has a 29 intelligence at level ten and spikes to 32. She is a spell casting, hexing powerhouse that I usually only pull out for harder scenarios. That character is a maximized munchkin.

A beast totem barbarian is solid and your character looks like a blast to play.


Also, I might as well ask- how is going about being a blaster wizard?

Is he just going for damage? That is usually a poor choice. If he was a blaster AND [blank], he would have a better time.

For example, since he is using magic missiles a lot, does he have the Toppling Spell metamagic feat? That would allow him to make trip attempts with force spells. There are a lot of other metamagics he could focus on to both deal damage and add interesting effect to the battle ( one of my personal favorite is the Rimed spell on cold spells to make enemies entangled for [spell level]rounds.)

As a 5th level wizard, he should at least have some degree of leeway with these things given his spell slots.


The guy doesn't have a problem with your character - he just doesn't like you.

(My read on fifteen years of dealing with folks in organized play.)

If he's interfering with your play experience, he's violating the "don't be a jerk" rule, and needs to either straighten out or stop coming to games.

+1000 on bringing it up to your VC/VL/organizers. There's just no reason you should be going to gamedays and saying "oh, it's that guy."


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I suspect he looks at the damage a caster can do in a round and assumes that is the amount of damage that is supposed to be done in a round.

"repeat after me, fireball is a bad spell, go haste instead"


Mahtobedis wrote:

I suspect he looks at the damage a caster can do in a round and assumes that is the amount of damage that is supposed to be done in a round.

"repeat after me, fireball is a bad spell, go haste instead"

"Repeat after me- A cold, rimed fireball that makes enemies in a 20' radius spread entangled for 3 rounds is awesome. Damage on top of that is gravy"

Well, admittedly, that would be a bit impractical (+2 to spell slot; there are more efficient combos at your level), but the point generally stands- do Blasting AND, not just blasting.


Quote:
Well, admittedly, that would be a bit impractical (+2 to spell slot; frost fall is more practical at your level), but the point generally stands- do Blasting AND, not just blasting.

Only +1 for an elemental sorcerer :)


Hawktitan wrote:

You aren't min/maxed to the Nth degree, but your character looks pretty optimized to me. I don't mean that as a bad thing.

Rager of the Society, little iffy and not likely to be noticed as you level but the extra rage while low level gives some breathing room.

Weapon Focus Greatsword may look iffy since you also have claws. Claws right now are strictly better if you get a full attack, but probably rarely used since little would survive a swing from your greatsword, and you'll forget about your claws once you get iteratives anyway as the beast totem line is taken to get pounce.

Cha is not dumped so your intimidate doesn't suck at earlier levels (and having a social skill is nice in PFS), and sure you can explain it as it fits the theme of your character anyway. I don't see how intimidate gets bumped to 13 though, but I could be missing something.

I'd bet even money your next feat will be intimidating prowess. Rage would effect intimidate then.

Thug taken to make intimidate better - AoE fear based on a DC instead of a save? Yes please.

This is not negative critisim - I like the build, it looks solid and would be a fine addition to any party.

Yeah, the pounce is just incase I decide to use this character for the retirement.

For intimidate it is. 5 Ranks + 3 Class Skill + 1 charisma + 2 intimidating half orc racial = 11

11 + 2 vs Humanoids (1/2 Scarred Rager level) = 13

Edit: and yes, I'm taking 1 more level of rogue for +1 reflex, evasion, and intimidating prowress as a free feat. Level after that and I'll take skill focus and then I'll have a strong aoe fear, good social skills, and still be a fairly strong frontliner.

Scarab Sages

lemeres wrote:
Mahtobedis wrote:

I suspect he looks at the damage a caster can do in a round and assumes that is the amount of damage that is supposed to be done in a round.

"repeat after me, fireball is a bad spell, go haste instead"

"Repeat after me- A cold, rimed fireball that makes enemies in a 20' radius spread entangled for 3 rounds is awesome. Damage on top of that is gravy"

Well, admittedly, that would be a bit impractical (+2 to spell slot; there are more efficient combos at your level), but the point generally stands- do Blasting AND, not just blasting.

Well I have some orc and dragoin blood that helps with damage, plus a waves mystery so I slow too.


Hawktitan wrote:
Quote:
Well, admittedly, that would be a bit impractical (+2 to spell slot; frost fall is more practical at your level), but the point generally stands- do Blasting AND, not just blasting.
Only +1 for an elemental sorcerer :)

And that would become +0 if you also have the magical lineage trait. That could make a dip into sorcerer useful if you have a particular metamagic feat you prefer to use.

EDIT: Great use of Blasting AND, Why-knee face.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I have seen encounters all the way through the seeker arc stopped by create pit.

Liberty's Edge

Thomas Long 175 wrote:


Squirrel_Dude wrote:
What is he playing?
A blaster wizard. Though mostly he just uses magic missiles. I think I've seen him cast a scorching ray once.

I think we have found the problem.

Regarding your character, I wouldn't stress that it is a 'legal' character, even though it is, I'd point out that it is well made, but not hugely optimized.

Though truthfully, I might not even want to get into it that much. Dude needs to learn to deal.


You could always see if you can respec or replace your character with one optimized to hell and back. But I say that solely as someone who is petty and vindictive.


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I talked to him guys, apparently he didn't mean his comments in a rude way. Apparently he's just getting back into D&D and he's more used to 1e damage, so everything here is new to him. He's agreed to hold back on the comments and says I'm quite welcome at his table.

Sovereign Court

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Mahtobedis wrote:

Your barbarian build is decent. There is nothing earth shattering going on. You rage and hit hard, like your class is supposed to. Does he know that a +17 on damage is considered easily achievable for a level 8 Two Handed fighting character? As for his whining I would just ignore it.

Next time comments about your damage being too high for your level, try pointing out how low your will save and AC are to balance it out.

Honestly I would also ask why he is making his weak choices with his characters and present the better options, but I am also not as good a person as I should be.

"Yes my damage is pretty absurd for a wizard, good thing I am a barbarian. Why didn't you go transmutation again? That school has dome awesome save the day spells." I am not as a nice a person as I should be.

I heard petty, vindictive and Indianapolis and I had to chime in. Good to be back, boys.

Easily achieved at level 4, actually. 'specially as a straight Barbarian. Base 20 STR (from race), +4 from rage. Get +2 STR from Enlarge Person potion. 3 base damage from power attack. 7 MOD in STR is 10 more damage. At level 2, throw on Witch Hunter or Superstition. By level 4 get a magic weapon and then you're rocking +6 damage from Power Attack, +2 from Witch Hunter, 10 from STR and more from Rage. Take Invulnerable Rager for more cheesy DR at low levels. For feats throw on Power Attack and Cleave. Rage Powers... meh. Get Superstition and Witch Hunter for more damage. Extra feat? Throw on Extra Rage Power to get a Gore or Bite attack. That's more damage on a full attack.

When you're level 4 in Society and throwing out 30-40 DPR, you'll get more than a few DMs that audit your character. But it's easy enough to do so. To really cheese stuff up, buy a cold iron and silver weapon. Personally I dump WIS/INT over CHA, and take the UMD magical trait.

Favorite quote from a local DM "You can't use Use Magic Device on a scroll of Ghostbane Dirge, you're a Barbarian.". I tell him to check the character sheet. His response: "*** damn it, seriously?!".

Then again I'm why PFS DMs cry themselves to sleep at night...

Thomas Long 175 wrote:
I talked to him guys, apparently he didn't mean his comments in a rude way. Apparently he's just getting back into D&D and he's more used to 1e damage, so everything here is new to him. He's agreed to hold back on the comments and says I'm quite welcome at his table.

My vindictive reply, it's Pathfinder Society. Everyone is welcome, including min-maxers. Play whatever you want. The guy can't send you away from a society game just because he feels your character does too much damage. Of course, that's no reason to be mean to the guy. But Society rules do not prevent min-maxed characters at all.

The Exchange

Thomas Long 175 wrote:
I talked to him guys, apparently he didn't mean his comments in a rude way. Apparently he's just getting back into D&D and he's more used to 1e damage, so everything here is new to him. He's agreed to hold back on the comments and says I'm quite welcome at his table.

Best response you could have hoped for Thomas.

Sovereign Court

Seems like a solid reply from the guy. If he's going straight to DMing for Society after 1e he will be frustrated by the culture shock. PF is much, much more in favor of players than 1e or 2e were. Also, PFS doesn't really allow the DMs much freedom. The Organized Play guide essentially says DMs cannot ramp up encounters, so some DMs will get a bit curt with min-maxers for "ruining" encounters.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

If he's going with magic missiles and scorching rays and in general being a blaster, the blockbuster wizard guide might be more useful.
https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=CF830C0FA4CEE8DE!207&ithint=f ile%2c.pdf&app=WordPdf&authkey=!AMjZjzJxXVztFVU

OTOH, he may want to know that by default wizards aren't quite the damage dealers they once were.

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