Synthesist Summoner & Dragon Disciple


Rules Questions


I searched the forums & the FAQ. No solid answer appears:

The Dragon Disciple has attribute increases, and natural armor increases. If a Synthesist Summoner went the route of Dragon Disciple, do these stack with the eidolon?

References:
  • This Faq says that you can make natural attacks from within the eidolon, so the claws and bite gained from the Dragon Disciple 'effectively' stack.

  • The Fused Eidolon says you replace the summoners physical attributes with eidolon, but gains the natural armor bonuses.

  • The Fused Eidolon also says "the synthesist can use all of his own abilities and gear, except for his armor".
  • This sounds like the bonuses from Dragon Disciple should stack with the fused eidolon, but I am also considering that the summoner may gain the bonuses, and not the eidolon. It would be annoying if it did not stack.

    More ammo against my hope: the claws gained from the Draconic bloodline increase after a few levels. The increase only affect the claws from the bloodline, not any others you happen to have.

    Related question: If the Dragon Disciple grants me wings 'naturally', can a Synthesist take wing buffet?

    Can Improved Damage be applied to his Dragon Disciple claws and/or bite? It appears he can (it requires a natural attack, but nothing about having the evolution to grant it).

    That's it for now. Thanks for yawl's time.

    Dark Archive

    Summoner gains the dragon disciple bonuses. When in fused eidilon form, you use the Eidilon's physical stats, not the summoners. So they wouldn't stack.


    From Synthesist PRD:

    Quote:
    While fused with his eidolon, the synthesist uses the eidolon’s Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution, but retains his own Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma.

    So, the DS stat bonuses won't be available merged.

    Quote:
    While fused, the synthesist loses the benefits of his armor.

    You could argue whether or not "armor" includes natural armor, but I think that many would interpret that it does.


    Victor Zajic wrote:
    Summoner gains the dragon disciple bonuses. When in fused eidilon form, you use the Eidilon's physical stats, not the summoners. So they wouldn't stack.
    Melkiador wrote:
    So, the DS stat bonuses won't be available merged.

    I understand where you are coming from, and I am leaning toward that being exactly what the rules say. Still, since a "synthesist can use all of his own abilities and gear" that means his belt of strength +2 would affect his eidolon, I am hoping the Dragon Disciple increase would work.

    It does say the increase is as if he advanced in level, and the eidolon gains attribute increases as it goes up in hit dice.

    Still, its a class feature, written before the Summoner came out. If viewed that way, the idea it beefs up the eidolon is a little more plausible. Plausible, however, doesn't make it true.

    Melkiador wrote:
    You could argue whether or not "armor" includes natural armor, but I think that many would interpret that it does.

    I doubt it. The synthesist entry spells out worn armor pretty thoroughly. I can't imagine an ogre synthesist losing his natural armor as the "living armor" forms around him. I can see worn armor- which is what I've seen what armor refers to- being absorbed by the eidolon as it forms, but not the base creature's skin.

    But I see yawl's points. I haven't closed the book on the subject, but I do see where yawl are coming from.


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    Dragon disciple adds all of its bonuses to the character. The eidolon is a seperate entity and recieves no stat increases. To simplify your eidolon doesn't have the prc.

    As far as nat armor goes. It follows normal stacking rules. Two base natural armor will not stack.


    Mojorat wrote:
    Dragon disciple adds all of its bonuses to the character. The eidolon is a separate entity and recieves no stat increases. To simplify your eidolon doesn't have the prc.

    See, I was going to repeat the Fused Eidolon where is says "...speaks through its voice, as the two are now one creature..." but then I read the following:

    Mojorat wrote:
    As far as nat armor goes. It follows normal stacking rules. Two base natural armor will not stack.

    Which I had forgotten. Yeah, that sucks. So Dragon Disciple is not a good fit for the Synthesist Summoner.

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