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Paralysis
Some monsters and spells have the supernatural or spell-like ability to paralyze their victims, immobilizing them through magical means. Paralysis from poison is discussed in the Afflictions section.A paralyzed character cannot move, speak, or take any physical action. He is rooted to the spot, frozen and helpless. Not even friends can move his limbs. He may take purely mental actions, such as casting a spell with no components.
A winged creature flying in the air at the time that it becomes paralyzed cannot flap its wings and falls. A swimmer can't swim and may drown.
I just learned in another thread that a paralyzed character can cast spells while paralyzed, as long as they have no components. You know what else has no somatic or material or verbal components? Virtually every spell-like and supernatural monster ability.
Spell-Like Abilities (Sp) Spell-like abilities are magical and work just like spells (though they are not spells and so have no verbal, somatic, focus, or material components). They go away in an antimagic field and are subject to spell resistance if the spell the ability is based on would be subject to spell resistance.
So, spell-like abilities work just like spells, only without any pesky components. Supernatural abilities likewise have no components of any kind. This seems to mean that:
A paralyzed Efreet can create a Wall of fire followed by quickened Scorching Ray, targetting the effect as normal.
A paralyzed Ogre Mage can blast out a Cone of Cold, or assume gaseous form
A paralyzed Rakshasa can throw a Lightning bolt or a number of other effects.
A paralyzed Chimera can freely use it's breath weapon.
Does this seem wrong to anyone else?
I don't see it as an issue. They're just one full-round action away from being coup-de-grace'd.
Note that supernatural abilities are never said to be purely mental actions, so paralyzed creatures can't do them.
I don't see it as an issue. They're just one full-round action away from being coup-de-grace'd.
Have fun getting there through the Wall of Fire, I guess. I mean, I know Paralysis is usually a death sentence, but it seems odd that shooting a poisoned crossbow bolt into an Efreeti guard, who falls into a heap, could result in a brutal battle as characters crossing over to the fallen foe have to suffer a barrage of Scorching rays erupting from his hip or elbow or whatever.
Quote: Cheapy wrote - Note that supernatural abilities are never said to be purely mental actions, so paralyzed creatures can't do them.
Probably can't do them. The SRD also doesn't say that they require physical actions ... so it seems to be a case by case thing.
Abundant Step is a good example, here. It's supernatural, and allows the monk to "magically slip between spaces as dimension door."
It could be interpreted in such a way that paralyze would negate it, because the monk couldn't "step" or move.
It could also be interpreted the other way, that even while paralyzed the monk can bend space time or whatever to teleport away.
I would personally lean toward the first camp (can't).
But, say, the Slumber Hex seems like it could be used even if the witch was paralyzed.
I mean, I know Paralysis is usually a death sentence, but it seems odd that shooting a poisoned crossbow bolt into an Efreeti guard, who falls into a heap, could result in a brutal battle as characters crossing over to the fallen foe have to suffer a barrage of Scorching rays erupting from his hip or elbow or whatever.
I don't know that I'd classify a battle against a creature who, by a single attack, has been rendered immobile and restricted to using only SLAs "brutal". At least, not in comparison to the battle that would be happening if said creature made its save against the paralysis effect. If the party is really going to have a brutal time against the paralyzed opponent, then maybe it's a little out of their league to begin with.
Quote: Cheapy wrote - Note that supernatural abilities are never said to be purely mental actions, so paralyzed creatures can't do them.
Probably can't do them. The SRD also doesn't say that they require physical actions ... so it seems to be a case by case thing.
Abundant Step is a good example, here. It's supernatural, and allows the monk to "magically slip between spaces as dimension door."
It could be interpreted in such a way that paralyze would negate it, because the monk couldn't "step" or move.
It could also be interpreted the other way, that even while paralyzed the monk can bend space time or whatever to teleport away.
I would personally lean toward the first camp (can't).
But, say, the Slumber Hex seems like it could be used even if the witch was paralyzed.
I would say that if the ability says it's a purely mental action, it can be used. Having to interpret it on the fly will cause a ton of issues, and this is the easiest method.
And Oamu, as the text you quoted shows, they clearly thought about that being the case.
Note that supernatural abilities are never said to be purely mental actions, so paralyzed creatures can't do them.
Apparently anything that doesn't have components and acts like a spell is "purely mental," even if it involves aiming rays of flame at moving targets. Supernatural abilities require even less effort than SLA's, in that they don't even provoke AoO's, but I gotcha.
Hey, an Ogre Mage's Flight is an always-active SLA, does it seem reasonable that he should fly his paralyzed form away from your Coup de Grace? Ceasing or resuming flight is a free action.
Lots of creatures have Teleport as an SLA. Reasonable to Teleport away while paralyzed?
I guess my problem here is that, while a player character needs to invest resources (Metamagic feats, Eschew materials) to get the benefits of this rule that was tacked on to the PFSRD at some point (my rulebook certainly doesn't define spellcasting as "purely mental," even without components), every monster with SLA's gets it for free. I think it was an errata that was executed too hastily, without realizing the ramifications.
I would say that if the ability says it's a purely mental action, it can be used. Having to interpret it on the fly will cause a ton of issues, and this is the easiest method.
And Oamu, as the text you quoted shows, they clearly thought about that being the case.
Yeah, the problem is that one line of errata'ed text it turns anything that acts like a spell, but lacks material, verbal, or somatic components into a "purely mental" action.
That's a great deal of monster abilities. Hundreds. A paralyzed monster shouldn't continue to fight. I mean, in cheapy's example, you suffer a single round of extra attacks while moving to the fallen target to Coup De Grace it. If the fallen monster, still firing scorching rays and creating walls of fire, has a single ally--heck, many monsters can summon allies with SLA's, then that plan falls apart.
I also think it's weird that A Paralyzed wizard can cast these "purely mental" spells, but a stunned one cannot. It seems odd that being completely paralyzed and immobile would be less of a detriment to spellcasting than having the wind knocked out of you.
Hey, an Ogre Mage's Flight is an always-active SLA, does it seem reasonable that he should fly his paralyzed form away from your Coup de Grace? Ceasing or resuming flight is a free action.
In this case the Ogre Mage still needs to use a move action to fly any distance. My Core Rulebook states in the paralyzed condition that a paralyzed character "can take purely mental actions", so really any clarification into what that means is nice for me. However, I see your point. Especially difficult for line of sight abilities, as there is no facing, yet obviously most paralyzed characters are going to have a limited field of vision.
I personally haven't had this come up, but I don't think it would really make many monsters super-extra-challenging. I do see an extra annoyance factor with SLA teleporters fleeing despite paralysis, but generally that's going to happen w/o paralysis anyway when a fight turns against them unless you dimensionally anchor them or somesuch first.
As for the stunned condition I've always figured that as a physical/mental combo, like getting a good hard punch to the nose/a too solid blow to the head, whereas getting the wind knocked out of you would be the staggered condition. Just my interpretation though.
EDIT For Ogre Mage, it would be considered a purely mental move action though... Hrmmm...
Spell-Like Abilities: Usually, a spell-like ability works just like the spell of that name. A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus. The user activates it mentally. Armor never affects a spell-like ability's use, even if the ability resembles an arcane spell with a somatic component.
So yes, a paralyzed ogre mage would indeed be able to gaseous form (but still not move).
A more interesting situation is various class-based spell-like abilities that can be used. For instance, you can be paralyzed as a conjurer wizard and dimensional hop away from combat.
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So this is very odd, you can use an SLA while paralyzed...however, using an SLA provokes an attack of opportunity??? How exactly does someone perceive that the person is using an SLA so that they know there is an opening to exploit??? Especially if the person using the SLA is paralyzed??? So I can't just get a free AOO on a paralyzed person, but if they use an ability I cannot perceive them using they let their guard down and I get to whack them??? This makes less than zero sense...if that's possible.
So this is very odd, you can use an SLA while paralyzed...however, using an SLA provokes an attack of opportunity??? How exactly does someone perceive that the person is using an SLA so that they know there is an opening to exploit??? Especially if the person using the SLA is paralyzed??? So I can't just get a free AOO on a paralyzed person, but if they use an ability I cannot perceive them using they let their guard down and I get to whack them??? This makes less than zero sense...if that's possible.
Yes, it makes no sense. (Note that casting a spell with no components also provokes an AoO.)
But if the alternative is that a helpless creature automatically provokes an AoO every round -- no thank you! Helpless creatures are bad enough off as it is!
SLA's provoke because you are not paying concentrating to the opponent. The flavor/fluff for it is up to the GM or group.
Let's say the flavor is that your eyes start to change color that person will whack you in the face. Since using an SLA while paralyzed looks pretty much the same as using one when not paralyzed I don't see how being paralyzed stops you from being attacked.
PS:Just because you can't move that does not mean a there are no indicators that no SLA is taking place or that you should get a free attack.
As a side-note, I wonder why the clarification ", such as casting a spell with no components" is omitted from the paralyzed condition in the list of conditions.
There are also a few other instances where a relatively significant part of a condition is missing from that list, which is pretty annoying for someone (like me) who primarily use that list to determine what a creature can and can't do while suffering from a condition.
How is it omitted when the OP posted it as being there or am I misunderstanding you?
Well, first and foremost, consider that getting an AoO on an opponent using a spell or SLA is a game balancing effect.
THAT is why you get the attack.
Anything beyond that is trying to determine what that AoO simulates in game. So you're making stuff up after that point.
Secondly, the same is true for a spell with no verbal, somatic or material components, and yet you get an AoO against a spellcaster who is casting one of those.
Now, even though Pathfinder is in no way a simulation, we can still rationalize such things.
One thing to consider: paralyzed opponents don't suffocate, nor does their heart stop, or anything like that. So don't think of it as paralysis in the normal sense; think of it as a magical "stay here" effect.
If you are trying to be simulationist about it, you could rule that even though there's no verbal or somatic components of a Silent/Stilled spell or of an SLA, there is still a noticeable change in concentration and that is what is taken advantage of for the AoO.
But you don't have to do that at all. It's the way the game works, so you can just accept it as written. I'll agree that "because we say so" rules are harder to remember, however.
How is it omitted when the OP posted it as being there or am I misunderstanding you?
It's there in the "Paralysis" section of the Glossary, but not in the "paralyzed" condition in the "Conditions" section of the Glossary.
How is it omitted when the OP posted it as being there or am I misunderstanding you?It's there in the "Paralysis" section of the Glossary, but not in the "paralyzed" condition in the "Conditions" section of the Glossary.
ok. I think it was overlooked.
Paralysis is defined in three different locations. In the UMR, Special Abilities, and in Conditions. They all have different text, but refer to the same state.
Note that supernatural abilities are never said to be purely mental actions, so paralyzed creatures can't do them.
Also note that nothing says they require anything either. All the text on them say is that actions are described if applicable. Consult your GM for a ruling if an Su ability doesn't describe any necessary actions. For example: a large percentage of the Witch hexes simply require a standard action but don't describe any verbal, materials or somatic components.
I think for SU's it should depend on whether they are physical or mental actions.
A dragon can not use a breath weapon, but if an SU works like a spell then it should work since no movement is needed.
As a side-note, I wonder why the clarification ", such as casting a spell with no components" is omitted from the paralyzed condition in the list of conditions.
There are also a few other instances where a relatively significant part of a condition is missing from that list, which is pretty annoying for someone (like me) who primarily use that list to determine what a creature can and can't do while suffering from a condition.
Yeah, that happened to me, too.
Paralysis is defined in three different locations. In the UMR, Special Abilities, and in Conditions. They all have different text, but refer to the same state.
Right, and in my opinion it's very annoying that some of the significant text is missing from some of those locations.
Paralysis is defined in three different locations. In the UMR, Special Abilities, and in Conditions. They all have different text, but refer to the same state.Right, and in my opinion it's very annoying that some of the significant text is missing from some of those locations.
My favorite example of this phenomenon is that sneak attack isn't defined as Precision Damage in its entry. It's defined as such in a parenthetical statement. In the section on Critical Hits. In the Combat Chapter.
Also note that nothing says they require anything either. All the text on them say is that actions are described if applicable. Consult your GM for a ruling if an Su ability doesn't describe any necessary actions. For example: a large percentage of the Witch hexes simply require a standard action but don't describe any verbal, materials or somatic components.
Strictly speaking, I don't think spells require you to be conscious to cast, either. Is it reasonable to execute spells or other component-free equivalents while asleep, or rendered unconcious?
Seriously, I always thought that the line in the paralysis description that said a paralyzed character "couldn't move or act" was fairly definitive. Acting, to me, is taking actions. Actions like casting a spell. I'm baffled as to the reasoning behind this. The fact that it gives every monster with Spell-like abilities limited immunity to paralysis seems like a case of 'didn't think it through.'
My favorite example of this phenomenon is that sneak attack isn't defined as Precision Damage in its entry. It's defined as such in a parenthetical statement. In the section on Critical Hits. In the Combat Chapter.
Oh god, so irritating. I've been playing with the same group for over four years, so we don't generally get into too many rules quagmires anymore, but that's one that has to happen pretty often.
I think of paralysis like this. You get paralyzed. Likely, it wasn't on your turn (if it was, there's gotta be a good story to tell). You continue through initiative till your turn. You consult what you can do. Unless you can commit to a short list of actions (purely mental effects, more or less), you frown, shrug, and say "Sorry guys, I can't do anything" and your turn ends. Maybe the GM lets you delay or refocus. Combat goes on. If you have something mental to do (say, activate some magic items, use SLAs, etc.) you can do it. Resolve it, go on. If all your actions were eliminated by paralysis, that wouldn't make sense to me. "What, my character can't think or concentrate? I'm not suffocating am I, since I can't breathe either I take it?"
I think of paralysis like this. You get paralyzed. Likely, it wasn't on your turn (if it was, there's gotta be a good story to tell).
Provoking an AoO from a ghoul is a pretty common way to be paralyzed on your turn. Also, I can't think of too many magic items you could activate while paralyzed. Command Word, Spell completion, and Use activated are all right out.
While you're correct about AoOs, I confess I'm used to players avoiding them like the plague. I'd have to look around for magic items that are purely mental actions; I've seen some before, obviously the common activation methods fail.
Paralysis
Just to be clear, Paizo has the PRD, where as there is also d20pfsrd.com
Which are you quoting?Strictly speaking, I don't think spells require you to be conscious to cast, either. Is it reasonable to execute spells or other component-free equivalents while asleep, or rendered unconcious?
No, it's not. Similar to the dead condition, you can't take actions while unconscious.
Spell-like abilities are very powerful, for this very reason. Magical creatures are likewise very dangerous, for this reason. Complications from classes like the Witch? Well, that is another topic, but shows just how much it belongs in the Advanced Player's Guide.
ParalysisJust to be clear, Paizo has the PRD, where as there is also d20pfsrd.com
Which are you quoting?Strictly speaking, I don't think spells require you to be conscious to cast, either. Is it reasonable to execute spells or other component-free equivalents while asleep, or rendered unconcious?No, it's not. Similar to the dead condition, you can't take actions while unconscious.
Spell-like abilities are very powerful, for this very reason. Magical creatures are likewise very dangerous, for this reason. Complications from classes like the Witch? Well, that is another topic, but shows just how much it belongs in the Advanced Player's Guide.
I was quoting the PRD. I normally use the d20pfsrd because it's not a nightmare to navigate (it keeps all the monsters together, for one thing), but that got me into trouble.
Nowhere in the Unconscious description does it say you can't take actions:
Unconscious: Unconscious creatures are knocked out and helpless. Unconsciousness can result from having negative hit points (but not more than the creature's Constitution score), or from nonlethal damage in excess of current hit points.
Nowhere in the Dead condition does it say you can't take actions:
Dead: The character's hit points are reduced to a negative amount equal to his Constitution score, his Constitution drops to 0, or he is killed outright by a spell or effect. The character's soul leaves his body. Dead characters cannot benefit from normal or magical healing, but they can be restored to life via magic. A dead body decays normally unless magically preserved, but magic that restores a dead character to life also restores the body either to full health or to its condition at the time of death (depending on the spell or device). Either way, resurrected characters need not worry about rigor mortis, decomposition, and other conditions that affect dead bodies.
I mean, I think it should be obvious that you shouldn't be able to, but I also thought "couldn't move or act" was proof positive you couldn't take actions while paralyzed, and these conditions don't even have that line.
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Spell-like abilities are very powerful, for this very reason. Magical creatures are likewise very dangerous, for this reason. Complications from classes like the Witch? Well, that is another topic, but shows just how much it belongs in the Advanced Player's Guide.
Actually, even in the CRB, the Rogue can get SLA through his Talents.
Paralyzed Rogue ? Acid Splash with sneak attack damage for the win.
Paralyzed Rogue ? Acid Splash with sneak attack damage for the win.
I suppose, though the attack bonus will be pretty low with a 0 Dex.
LOL. Of course it needs to state that. You don't want any dead people walking around do you. :)