If it isn't listed in the description, is spending ki a non-action?
Scenario: 8th level Tetori monk with greater grapple attacks a foe in range with an unarmed strike and spent ki to gain the grab ability to immediately perform a grapple check. He then uses his move action to pin the opponent. Can I then utilize stunning pin (2nd level tetori bonus feat) and use a swift action to perform a stunning fist? (For flavor, I also have Jawbreaker do do bleed damage with a stunning fist)
If I've already utilized my swift action to gain the grab ability then I cannot initiate a stunning fist that same round. However, no where in the graceful grappler description does it state that spending ki to gain the grab ability was a swift action.
Hmmm, linking paizo rules page just takes you to the homepage. I'd try to link the d20pfsrd descriptions but I cannot go to their website on the computers here at work...
I don't think it's clear from the description, but you can't necessarily assume it's a non-action.
However, since the archetype does define the other actions for ki usage, I would rule as a GM that spending ki to make a grab attack is part of the grab attack, and thus not its own action. Thus, leaving your swift action free. However, I can easily imagine other GMs saying it should be a swift action, since other things that you spend ki on are almost always swift actions.
I don't think it's clear from the description, but you can't necessarily assume it's a non-action.
However, since the archetype does define the other actions for ki usage, I would rule as a GM that spending ki to make a grab attack is part of the grab attack, and thus not its own action. Thus, leaving your swift action free. However, I can easily imagine other GMs saying it should be a swift action, since other things that you spend ki on are almost always swift actions.
Thank you Rudy2. I do have a fairly lenient DM. If there isn't a specific rule on something he generally allows it if it meets a certain "cool" factor. We shall see.
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Hmmm, linking paizo rules page just takes you to the homepage. I'd try to link the d20pfsrd descriptions but I cannot go to their website on the computers here at work...
do you work at Paizo?
Just kidding. Regarding your question; I would think that barring specific rules, the general rule would apply. The general rule is that spending a Ki point is a swift action.
The general rule is that spending a Ki point is a swift action.
Unless I've missed something, there is no such "general rule". There is a trend, but no rule.
You put < and > brackets in the URL tag. That seems to have confused the forum system.
Fixed links:
You put < and > brackets in the URL tag. That seems to have confused the forum system.
Fixed links:
Thank you Paladin of Baha-who? I will remember that for future reference.
I spoke with my DM outside of game-play and he seems to feel that spending ki to gain grab is part of the attack action I would use to grab someone/thing. Therefore it would not cost a swift action. Yay for happy endings!
Spending a Ki point is a non-action that's tied into the ability you're spending the point for. That ability would be whatever action it would be called for. Spending a ki point to get extra attacks isn't a separate swift action, it's part of the full-atttack action you're powering up.
The above quote came from someone who did not bother to reread the ki monk entry before posting. It is entirely false.
wait...tetori's grab requires 1 ki point to use AT ALL?
that slightly conflicts with the wording " level 8 grants them the grab ability"
how can the ability be granted to them, if they have to spend ki to use it?
wouldnt it be that if they spend the ki point they are granted the grab ablity for one round?
Yeah, it's worded weirdly but here's how I read it:
You have the grab abilty. You can only use it by spending 1 ki to grab creatures your size or smaller, 2 ki for larger than you.
I later found out that it's impossible to grapple things two size categories larger than you so that last part is weird. I'd rather it be:
As long as you have one point of ki in your ki pool you have the grab ability for creatures your size or smaller. You can spend one ki to grab creatures larger than you.
I later found out that it's impossible to grapple things two size categories larger than you so that last part is weird. I'd rather it beI think this was true in 3.x, it is not true of PFRPG. You can grapple any size creature afaik.
Can you please link your source? I can't find that anywhere.
Ok, I overlooked something. First of all, there is nothing in Pathfinder rules that state you cannot grapple something due to its size. However, the grab ability is limited to a size category. Tetori monk Graceful Grappler seemingly bypasses that and states that spending 2 ki to grab creatures larger than you is a class feature for that archetype.
To summarize: Grapple any size creature, grab only up to your size.
Tetori monk spends more ki to take that rule and crap all over it. Awesome ensues.
Thank you Archeik, I wrote my last comment before seeing your latest.
I have a Tetori Monk gestalted with a Druid so I may still consider Powerful Shape.