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So this is the scenario, tell me if I've got it right.
Bad guy has his turn first, moves somewhere.
My wizard buddy has his turn and casts grease under the bad guy. Bad guy saves and remains standing.
I, at the bottom of the order, take my turn to move 10' away from bad guy and ready an attack triggered via bad guy moving.
Back to the top of the order, bad guy makes his acrobatics check and starts to move. My trigger triggers so I take a 5' step for not having moved this round. And move up next to him before he leaves the greased hex. I get my readied attack plus an attack of opportunity due to him leaving a threatened hex. Since he's walking across grease he's considered flat-footed thus both attacks can deal sneak attack damage?
Followup questions:
1) Because I took 5' step during the readied action when it gets to my turn in this round I can't move, also when it gets to my turn in this round I can't act because I readied during the previous round?
2) As my attack is triggered, do I know what direction he's going?
3) At this point, does bad guy still have to move? Could he change his mind and end his move and attack me instead? If so, could it be a full-attack since he hasn't actually moved?
4) What if I moved into the square he was planning on moving to--can he move via some other path or would that end his movement?
1. I dont beieve u could take a 5ft step because u already moved 10 feet. Its my understanding is that when u readying an action prolonging and not finishing ur turn until either what u rdyd the action for happens or ur turn comes around. So while u are waiting for ur turn to come up again or action to happen for u to do ur readied action, since u moved 10ft u have already used ur move action and cannot take a 5ft step. Now lets say u didnt move 10ft and was already 5ft away and u did a 5ft stel durimg ur readied action, when ur turn comes up again, the slate is basically wiped clean and u can do all ur actions again.
Just think of it as turns instead of rounds if ur readying an action to when u no longer are eligble to activate that readied action.
2. Eh taking a 5ft step and attack of oppertunity because of movement as a readied action is a bit iffy because he is leaving a square that u do not threaten when he does his move action. Like i said i dont think in tbat situation u could do a 5ft step because u already moved 10ft, butif u was already 10ft away with no moment, im not sure if that would provoke or not. I would rule no BUT i freely admit im not sure if its possible by the rules or not.
3.no he would have to move because that is whats provoming the attack of oppertunity. Ur not getting one off because he looks like hes gonna move but necause he actually does.
4. Yes because now his path is blocked and cannot take the move action so he doesnt expend a move action and can indeed full round action ur character.
I freely admit i amybe wrong but this my take on it.
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A round starts with the highest initiative and ends with the lowest initiative. In the scenario above I acted last in the round and therefor haven't moved yet in the new round.
I think you need to read this
http://paizo.com/prd/combat.html#_ready
and
The Combat Round
Each round represents 6 seconds in the game world; there are 10 rounds in a minute of combat. A round normally allows each character involved in a combat situation to act.Each round's activity begins with the character with the highest initiative result and then proceeds in order.
1) You're basically right about the first one except there is a new round in the middle and I haven't yet moved in that round.
2) It's not "iffy" it's either legal or not. It's the same movement that's triggering the readied action so they haven't yet left that square so I'd assume the same move would also trigger an AoO via leaving a threatened square.You also missed the entire main question (i.e. the question before "followup questions")..
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You can't move as part of a readied action if you moved as part of the turn that you readied during.
You are picking and choosing the best parts of the text to say you get to move and ready an action during your "round" but that the ready action applies to only full initiative "rounds" from the combat perspective.
This is how I've (as in how you're describing it) played it before, and seems to make more sense, however, as it's written, this (as in how I wrote it above) seems to follow what the rules actually say. And it actually makes initiative more important as opposed to "just going first". Also, I wouldn't say I'm "picking and choosing the best parts" because if you go back and read through it again you'll notice that I pointed out that this interpretation makes it so that I can neither move (because I took a 5' step) nor act (because I used up the action during that round).
Now, even if it worked the way you would like (I never said it was the way I would like, this is merely a question), you don't necessarily get both attacks.
You would get the first one, since that is what triggered your readied action, and he is moving in the grease.
Then, since you interrupted his action, he can decide not to move further and just attack you, so you wouldn't get the second one. If he decides to keep moving, then yes, provided he is still in a greased square, you get sneak again.
Thanks, I figured he could stop moving and respond. But how is it that the same movement that would trigger the readied attack would not also trigger an AoO? I know the square wasn't threatened initially, but he either is moving or he isn't. If he's moving to trigger the ready, how is he not moving to trigger the AoO?
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Also, you missed the part of Readied Action where it changes your place in the initiative order. You give up your original place in initiative, and wind up just before the person/creature/situation that triggered your Readied action in initiative, and that is your turn until it comes back around, as it is still the actual turn of the creature you interrupted with the Ready.
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Also, you missed the part of Readied Action where it changes your place in the initiative order. You give up your original place in initiative, and wind up just before the person/creature/situation that triggered your Readied action in initiative, and that is your turn until it comes back around, as it is still the actual turn of the creature you interrupted with the Ready.
I didn't exactly miss it, I just didn't think it mattered in this scenario. But if I understand what you're saying, then it's still the "same turn" that I started the readied action in?
Readied actions allow you to delay part of your turn until a certain condition is triggered. This condition expires at the start of your next turn in the initiative order, when you get another full round action. So you have already moved 10 feet this round and are just readying your standard action at this point.
Combat rounds are defined as a complete pass through the initiative order, but it is a personal value, not a global one. Each character gets one action in a round of combat, true, but 'full round actions' start on the character's turn and end just before the character's next turn, not at the top of the initiative order.
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Combat rounds are defined as a complete pass through the initiative order, but it is a personal value, not a global one. Each character gets one action in a round of combat, true, but 'full round actions' start on the character's turn and end just before the character's next turn, not at the top of the initiative order.
Thanks, that's how I've always played it but when I read it in the PRD it seemed like it was worded to imply what I was talking about in my original post. This obviously makes much more sense.
A point of contention I still have is that I'm in a conversation with someone that says the monster would still be forced to continue his move action as he can't respond to an immediate readied action (assuming that I hadn't moved and was able to make the 5' step). I can't find any rules for this either way..
The monster would still have to take a movement action, but it can simply stop moving whenever it wants. So it can react to being hit by stopping movement to face the new threat, it doesn't have to keep going to the intended end location, however once it has declared it is 'moving' (regardless of distance) the move action has been taken and it can no longer use full attack actions or five foot steps.
Lets say you are hiding behind a pillar and a monster fails to see you. As it walks past you, you get an AOO. When you take it, the monster becomes aware of you. After resolving the AOO, the monster may now choose to continue moving, change direction, or stop moving.
"If the triggered action is part of another character's activities, you interrupt the other character. Assuming he is still capable of doing so, he continues his actions once you complete your readied action."
I believe this will clear up the issue of whether or not the bad guy has to continue moving after you're ready action has occurred.
One thing I think has been overlooked as well, is that you'll also be stepping into the greased area, and would need to make the same rolls as the enemy.
A grease spell covers a solid surface with a layer of slippery grease. Any creature in the area when the spell is cast must make a successful Reflex save or fall. A creature can walk within or through the area of grease at half normal speed with a DC 10 Acrobatics check. Failure means it can't move that round (and must then make a Reflex save or fall), while failure by 5 or more means it falls (see the Acrobatics skill for details). Creatures that do not move on their turn do not need to make this check and are not considered flat-footed.
I'm missing where walking across grease makes one flat-footed. The spell specifies that creatures not moving are not flat-footed, but that does not mean that creatures that are moving are flat-footed. They have the appropriate condition based on their save. And walking successfully across grease means they are simply walking, albiet at half-speed. [As I read it.]
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One thing I think has been overlooked as well, is that you'll also be stepping into the greased area, and would need to make the same rolls as the enemy.
I think it's safe to assume if this were a legitimate tactic the wizard would've been prepping for the rogue to do this and would cast it in such a way that the rogue would have a clear space to stand.
It's a ten foot square
if the grease is
AB
CD
and the bad guy is in D, there are still 5 adjacent squares that aren't greased.
Oh, is the flat-footed condition from the use of the Acrobatics skill to cross narrow or uneven surfaces?
Is allowing sneak attack for somebody walking on grease common practice? Because if it is, my new rogue is going to have a shiny new wand of grease!
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Oh, is the flat-footed condition from the use of the Acrobatics skill to cross narrow or uneven surfaces?
Is allowing sneak attack for somebody walking on grease common practice? Because if it is, my new rogue is going to have a shiny new wand of grease!
Correct, having to make the acrobatics check in this manner makes the walker-on-grease flat-footed. But I doubt it's worth buying a wand of grease. It'd be extremely situational and if they choose to stand still they're not flat-footed.
"If the triggered action is part of another character's activities, you interrupt the other character. Assuming he is still capable of doing so, he continues his actions once you complete your readied action."I believe this will clear up the issue of whether or not the bad guy has to continue moving after you're ready action has occurred.
If you mean to suggest that the monster must continue moving by this, it is incorrect.
1) The creatures continues its actions (plural). This suggests it simply finishes taking its turn.
2) When moving you get to decide where you move, how far you move, and when you stop moving - all of these are options for continuing your specific movement action. You wouldn't require a character that stepped onto a hidden pit, then made their reflex save to avoid falling, to continue walking forward (into the pit) because they must finish moving as part of their move action.