Crystal Chakram


Rules Questions


5 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

The release of the Card Caster class prompted me to search for throwing weapons with an 18-20 crit range. This lead me to the Crystal Chakram from Classic Horrors Revisited.

Crystal Chakram:
Name- Chakram, crystal
Cost- 20gp
Dmg (S)- 1d4
DMG (M)- 1d6
Critical Range- 18-20/x2
Range- -
Weight- 2lbs.
Type- S
Source- CHR

Benefit: When a crystal chakram strikes a foe, the weapon shatters into tiny sharp fragments; if it misses, there is a 50% chance the chakram shatters when it hits the ground or another solid object; otherwise it can be retrieved and used again.
Special: A crystal chakram is treated as ammunition for the purpose of creating magic weapons.

18-20 advantages, can be treated as ammunition; it's quite interesting. Key issue is that despite being a 'circular throwing disk' and in the 'Ranged Weapon' section, it lacks a range, and thus by RAW has to be a melee weapon.

Would you grant this weapon the range of a Chakram? Would that also give it the crit range of a Chakram? Exactly how cheesy would it be to show up for a game with this weapon, with this weapon with the Chakram's range?

Grand Lodge

As written, it's obviously an oversight as the benefit text still implies it's being thrown. As such I'd give it the range of a normal chakram. I'd leave the crit range as printed. I'm not seeing why it would be cheesy to show up with this weapon.. care to explain what I'm missing?


'Classic Horrors Revisited' isn't the authoritative source that Ultimate Equipment is; for a weapon with a uniquely awesome property to show up within it recalls bloatbooks from 3.5e I gather.


Doesn't seem cheesy to me really. Would probably go with a chakram. FAQd though.

Grand Lodge

GM Arkwright wrote:
'Classic Horrors Revisited' isn't the authoritative source that Ultimate Equipment is; for a weapon with a uniquely awesome property to show up within it recalls bloatbooks from 3.5e I gather.

If you mean "uniquely awesome" because it can be enchanted, I don't see how it's any more powerful than enchanting ammunition since it is consumable (it breaks on contact).


More that it is the ONLY thrown weapon with an 18-20 crit range.

Scarab Sages

GM Arkwright wrote:
'Classic Horrors Revisited' isn't the authoritative source that Ultimate Equipment is; for a weapon with a uniquely awesome property to show up within it recalls bloatbooks from 3.5e I gather.

It shatters on impact, unlike a normal Chakram.

Quote:
Shaped and carved from quartz or stranger subterranean crystals, these circular throwing discs have jagged razor-sharp edges. When a crystal chakram strikes a foe, the weapon shatters into tiny sharp fragments; if it misses, there is a 50% chance the chakram shatters when it hits the ground or another solid object; otherwise it can be retrieved and used again. A crystal chakram is treated as ammunition for the purpose of creating magic weapons.

While you treat the crystal chakram as ammo for purposes of enchanting, they still weigh 2 lbs each, or 100 lbs for a "full stack."


Yep the 20gp cost could get irritating.


As it's an upgrade from normal chakram anything not replaced would use the same stats I'd guess. 30ft. makes the most sense.

both are labeled with a range but,
it's probably a similiar relationship to "dart" and "Jolting Dart" both same range,

Scarab Sages

GM Arkwright wrote:
Yep the 20gp cost could get irritating.

20 gp every single time you hit something.

How many times were you planing on throwing your chakrams?
Can you imaging the screaming from archers if arrows cost 20 gp each?


Couldn't you buy a wand of mending? Or if you're a caster, cast it on the broken pieces and repair it?


Or craft them myself for half price.

Scarab Sages

TheBulletKnight wrote:
Couldn't you buy a wand of mending? Or if you're a caster, cast it on the broken pieces and repair it?

Exactly how many HP of damage did the charam suffer when it fragmented into thousands of pieces?

Assuming you can find ALL the shards, you will need to repair 50% of that unspecified damage.

GM Arkwright wrote:
Or craft them myself for half price.

Assuming down time not used for something more productive and the ability to carry hundreds of pound of ammo...

...Your quick draw, dual wielding, chakram throwing is only spending 40 - 60 gp per round of combat.

He also has to enchant his ammo, instead of the much less expensive option of enchanting his bow and using mundane ammo. Don't think your ever going to be able to use special materials. No cold iron, silver or admantine for you.


Well if you wanted to do this. you'd def need to figure out some kinda ammo holder for abundant ammo spell

note: Does it say these are the large chakrams like Xena, or if they are the smaller more traditional ones that would indeed fit a small stack in a belt box? If it's that kind (for some reason since it's crystal I feel like it would be.) Then abundant ammo would very much work with that.
(I can't think of a good visual of those off hand. though if you google it you'd probably find one. )
edit: oh. CD/DVD sized or smaller are the ones I was mentioning. CD sized were the more common smaller versions used in fights. the "mini" ones (sized like a fountain soda lid) weren't too common (according to quick googling)

So I bet you could get an ammo box for abundant ammo spell

Reasoning: They are counted as ammo unlike normal chakram so there is likely something different about them. A normal Chakram in this game I think is a Xena sized one. So these just feel more like the CD sized ones you spin on your finger and flick.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Does a Chakram count as a melee weapon, as well a ranged weapon, like other thrown weapons that can be used to make melee attacks?

Example: Dagger.


A normal one can be used at a -4? i think penalty.
maybe -2? something along those lines.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Zwordsman wrote:

A normal one can be used at a -4? i think penalty.

maybe -2? something along those lines.

Just -1.

I am just curious about enchantments and class feature interactions.

Also, if the Chakram is considered a Light, or One-handed weapon, when used in melee.


Just be careful, good things don't tend to happen when you live and die by the crystals. :P

Scarab Sages

They are a one-handed elee weapon and require a reflex save to avoid self inflicted injury unless you wear heavy armor.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Artanthos wrote:

They are a melee weapon and require a reflex save to avoid self inflicted injury unless you wear heavy armor.

I always found that weird. The reason given was due to the Gauntlets provided by Heavy Armor, but just wearing the gauntlets alone provide no protection from this damage.


Another difficulty is that they weigh 2lbs each. If you decide to pick up Rapid Shot and Multi-Shot, you're fast going to run into difficulties...

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Another question, is if they can be made of Special Materials.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

2 lbs? Really?

Is that the same as regular Chakram weight? I would think these would be lighter because of the material and how they are made to break on impact.


Crystal is still rock though. but it does seem heavier than what i was thinking.

Scarab Sages

blackbloodtroll wrote:
Another question, is if they can be made of Special Materials.

The material is specified.

Quote:
Shaped and carved from quartz or stranger subterranean crystals.


Regular Chakram weight is 1lb. I'm thinking protocol for using these is to beg the GM for mercy.


Might be able to convince a gm to let you make it out of that radiation/poisony crystal material. That one that makes you roll everytime you get hit by it.

Anyone else feel like they the 2lb and the cost feels more like a stackand not a single?

haha but yeah seems like GMHelp code

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Artanthos wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
Another question, is if they can be made of Special Materials.

The material is specified.

Quote:
Shaped and carved from quartz or stranger subterranean crystals.

You miss the entire point of the question.

A Longsword is made of steel, but could also be Mithral, Cold Iron, Adamanitine, etc.

Dark Archive

I suspect, given that the material is presumably responsible for the 'shattering' effect, they cannot be made of special materials without essentially turning them into normal chakrams, as another material wouldn't share the same properties that result in shattering.

That said, whilst it's a stretch RAW it doesn't say you can't change the material so I suppose you could do so, personally as a GM I would say no, but I could see it being argued you can by RAW.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

What happens if you choose a Crystal Chakram as your Blackblade?


blackbloodtroll wrote:


A Longsword is made of steel, but could also be Mithral, Cold Iron, Adamanitine, etc.

Every item has a material descriptor. A normal longsword is made of steel so it is a [steel] longsword. Same for [mithral] longsword or [adamantine] longsword. Can you create a mithral adamantine longsword? No. Can you create a crystal adamantine chakram? No.

BBT wrote:


What happens if you choose a Crystal Chakram as your Blackblade?

The item breaks if you hit (100%) or miss (50%). The unbreakable ability dont prevents this because it breaks completly.

Do it but it is a really bad choice.

Come on BBT give us some more 'What happens ..' questions.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Eridan wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:


A Longsword is made of steel, but could also be Mithral, Cold Iron, Adamanitine, etc.

Every item has a material descriptor. A normal longsword is made of steel so it is a [steel] longsword. Same for [mithral] longsword or [adamantine] longsword. Can you create a mithral adamantine longsword? No. Can you create a crystal adamantine chakram? No.

BBT wrote:


What happens if you choose a Crystal Chakram as your Blackblade?

The item breaks if you hit (100%) or miss (50%). The unbreakable ability dont prevents this because it breaks completly.

Do it but it is a really bad choice.

Come on BBT give us some more 'What happens ..' questions.

There is nothing that make the Crystal Chakram an exception to the rules for special materials. The Tepoztopilli is usually made from Obsidian, Glass, or Teeth, but can still be made of other special materials.

The Crystal Chakram also never notes it instantly gains the destroyed condition upon use. The Unbreakable property should protect it.

It should, at least, be considered.


As a ranged weapon, surely a Crystal Chakram is inadmissable as a potential Black Blade.

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
GM Arkwright wrote:
As a ranged weapon, surely a Crystal Chakram is inadmissable as a potential Black Blade.

Is not a Crystal Chakram an one-handed slashing weapon?

Is it not a melee weapon, as well as a ranged weapon, like so many thrown weapons, such as the spear, or dagger?


The Crystal Chakram is a ranged weapon, which makes no distinction between two-handed or one-handed. It also makes no mention of the capacity of using it as a melee weapon. This is contrasted with a Dagger which has a Range but is a Light weapon, and thus can be used both as a ranged thrown weapon and as a melee weapon.


Ithink it wouldn't qualify..

it's starts out as a ranged, and doesn't fit under the normal blackblade reqs. it's more a range weapon with a subtext to be able to use in close range. instead of how a dagger is a melee weapon with subtext to use at range.

It's a lot more like that one feat that lets you stab people with arrows. it's ammo that's meant to be lobbed at people, but you take a penality to jab or slash someone.

and blackblade's requirements are pretty strict. I don't think even a normal chakram (which is more detailed) would qualify.

A black blade is always a one-handed slashing weapon, a rapier, or a sword cane. The magus chooses the blade's type upon gaining the blade, and once chosen, it can't be changed

The chakram is a simple, elegant, and highly portable thrown weapon. It is a flat, open-centered metal discus with a sharpened edge. You can wield the chakram as a melee weapon, but it is not designed for such use; you take a –1 penalty on your attack roll with the weapon and must succeed at a DC 15 Reflex save or cut yourself on the blade (half damage, no Strength modifier). You do not need to make this save if wearing heavy armor.

It's not designed for use as a melee weapon.. so i dont' think it qualifies anymore than an improvised weapon would (though both are cool andI doubt many gm's would say no.
well maybe tot he chakram due to ranged ability I guess.. though you'd sure lose it quick if you used it as a ranged weapon)

Ranged weapons don't mention handiness..

Also I never realized prior to just now but i guess you couldn't use a dagger... they are "light melee" not "one handed melee"
I suppose unless the blackblade is refering to amount of hands used.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I guess the next question would be then:

Can the Crystal Chakram be used as a melee weapon?


Depends how much of the Chakram's text carries over, which depends on your GM, I reckon.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Does the Crystal Chakram actual use any of the rules associated with the normal Chakram, or is it's own completely separate weapon?

Basically, I am asking, is it the difference between a Dagger, and a Switchblade Dagger, or a Dagger, and a Swordbreaker Dagger.

Scarab Sages

blackbloodtroll wrote:
Artanthos wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
Another question, is if they can be made of Special Materials.

The material is specified.

Quote:
Shaped and carved from quartz or stranger subterranean crystals.

You miss the entire point of the question.

A Longsword is made of steel, but could also be Mithral, Cold Iron, Adamanitine, etc.

No, I did not.

Crystal chakram are, by definition, made of crystal. They are not made of mithral, cold iron, or adamanitine.

blackbloodtroll wrote:
What happens if you choose a Crystal Chakram as your Blackblade?

It gains the destroyed condition every time you hit anything with it.

You must then repair it using the Black Blade rules.

*unlike a normal chakram, the crystal chakram is not listed as a one-hand melee weapon.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

So, a Rope Gauntlet cannot be made of any Special Material?

Scarab Sages

blackbloodtroll wrote:

So, a Rope Gauntlet cannot be made of any Special Material?

Only special materials that can be used to manufacture rope. (I don't believe there are any.)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Artanthos wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:

So, a Rope Gauntlet cannot be made of any Special Material?

Only special materials that can be used to manufacture rope. (I don't believe there are any.)

Darkleaf Cloth, or possibly Dragonhide.

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