Diagonal Movement Through Occupied Square?


Rules Questions


I assume I know the answer to this but I want to double-check with the community. I'll attach the image of what I'm talking about. If the player wants to travel from D2 to B3, I assume they must follow the path I have outlined in red, thereby receiving AoO from both enemies labeled C1 and C2. The player wants to travel diagonally directly from square C2 to B3, thus eluding an AoO from enemy C2. I am correct to believe he can't do this because technically he would moving through a square occupied by an enemy, even if its only half the square, right?

[IMG]http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/l555/eirefrance/iowdhqwoqehdfeuihcfe_zp scb4c9fbd.png[/IMG]


That seems like a perfectly valid move to me. There's no rule that says you can't move diagonally past an enemy. He'll provoke an attack from the one enemy of course. To simplify the rules question think about it this way: can you take a five foot step diagonally past an enemy, perhaps to get into flanking position? For example, if the PC is directly south of an enemy, he can five foot step diagonally to be directly west of the enemy.

Now, personally, I've never allowed a PC or NPC to take a five step diagonally around a hard 90' corner, but I allow it for anything but a hard 90' corner, like a curved cavern wall for example. My reasoning for this and my explanation for the rule above is that the "barrier" doesn't take up the whole square. PCs and NPCs are not 5x5x5 flesh cubes, the square just represents their fighting space, so I see no reason a PC can't walk diagonally past an enemy.


Oh, look at this:

I just looked up Tactical Movement in the srd:

"You can't move diagonally past a corner (even by taking a 5-foot step). You can move diagonally past a creature, even an opponent.

You can also move diagonally past other impassable obstacles, such as pits."

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#TOC-Measuring-Distance


Actually, the rules expressly allow diagonal movement past an enemy:

Quote:


Diagonals: When measuring distance, the first diagonal counts as 1 square, the second counts as 2 squares, the third counts as 1, the fourth as 2, and so on.
You can’t move diagonally past a corner (even by taking a 5-foot step). You can move diagonally past a creature, even an opponent.
You can also move diagonally past other impassable obstacles, such as pits.

Dragonriderje: you are correct. Can't move diagonally around a corner.


On the contrary. Since movement is not restricted to a simple up-down-left-right pattern (except for around structural corners, as Dragonriderje explained), he can diagonal in that space and save himself an AoO.

Of course, if the PC in question used Acrobatics, he can avoid either attack of opportunity entirely and still have the movement to complete his action.

Liberty's Edge

Quintain wrote:

Actually, the rules expressly allow diagonal movement past an enemy:

Dragonriderje: you are correct. Can't move diagonally around a corner.

Can you please explain "Can't move diagonally around a corner" in some other words? I saw this rule in core and couldn't understand.


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1 2
3 4

To move from square 1 to square 4, both squares 2 and 3 must not be something solid that blocks movemment. If, say, 3 is the corner of a building, you would need to move 1 -> 2 -> 4, and the diagonal move 1 -> 4 would not be allowed. Creatures (even enemy creatures), pits, difficult terrain, etc. are irrelevant for that, they don't block diagonal movement. If 3 contained an abyss, and 2 contained an enemy, you could move diagonally from 1 to 4.

Liberty's Edge

Derklord wrote:

1 2

3 4

To move from square 1 to square 4, both squares 2 and 3 must not be something solid that blocks movemment. If, say, 3 is the corner of a building, you would need to move 1 -> 2 -> 4, and the diagonal move 1 -> 4 would not be allowed. Creatures (even enemy creatures), pits, difficult terrain, etc. are irrelevant for that, they don't block diagonal movement. If 3 contained an abyss, and 2 contained an enemy, you could move diagonally from 1 to 4.

Explained like I was 5 years old, which is exactly what I needed! Thank you so much..!


Further question on this. two rogues are standing diagonal to each other and a creature moves 20 feet passing diagonally between them. at some point the creature is EXACTLY between them. but it doesn't fit the nice examples for flanking in the book. In my home game tonight, I ruled the two rogues waited for the player to pass diagonally between them and then both attacked getting sneak attack. Your guys take?


Hakken wrote:
Further question on this. two rogues are standing diagonal to each other and a creature moves 20 feet passing diagonally between them. at some point the creature is EXACTLY between them. but it doesn't fit the nice examples for flanking in the book. In my home game tonight, I ruled the two rogues waited for the player to pass diagonally between them and then both attacked getting sneak attack. Your guys take?

Personally, when flanking says "if your opponent is threatened by another enemy character or creature on its opposite border or opposite corner.", I interpret that to mean that if you are making half a Y with an opponent and your flanking partner, you still count for flanking.

X=empty, F=flanking partnet, E=enemy, Y=you
XXF
XEX
XYX

This actually simplifies the check to basically meaning that if you can draw a greater than 90* angle between any of your squares, all of the squares of your enemy, and any of your partner's squares, you are flanking. It's a little hard to demo the proof in a forum, but the difference between having to fight people at 135* and 180* is so minimal it's not a turn off for me, even if some people think this isn't a valid RAW interpretation of the sentence. Since, yes the person provoking in your example would be in a space (not necessarily a square, but a point between your characters) that is still within both characters' threaten areas, the AoO and/or readied attack would count as flanking.

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