Why can't you bring Vraxeris back?


Rise of the Runelords

Liberty's Edge

What about True Resurrection? The party in the game I'm running is seriously considering using the scroll they found to bring him back. The book says attempts to raise him fail but offer up no more explanation than that. But Speak With Dead works on him. What do?


It's the GM playing by RAW:

Speak with Dead: You can cast this spell on a corpse that has been deceased for any amount of time, but the body must be mostly intact to be able to respond.

True Resurrection: This spell functions like raise dead, except that you can resurrect a creature that has been dead for as long as 10 years per caster level.

So since the original Vraxeris has been dead for millenia, even True Resurrection won't work, but Speak with Dead will.

As for the clones, you also have "Even true resurrection can't restore to life a creature who has died of old age."
It's a GM's call as to whether dying of a congenital defect counts as "old age", but I think the AP assumes it does.

It explains the whole thing.

Personally, I house rule that once 2000-3000 years have passed, the soul has been judged by Pharasma and moved on, so even Speak with Dead doesn't work. But that's just me, and that's definitely a house rule that violates RAW.


Vraxeris's soul has to be free and willing to return to be the subject of /raise dead/ et al. Maybe Vraxeris doesn't want to be raised because of his dementia, or his soul is being held somewhere.

Silver Crusade

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I don't think this thread wanted to be resurrected either.


Since this thread has been raised from the dead: according to the new Planar Adventures, a soul travels to the Boneyard after 'death', is judged, and then moves on to an Outer plane. And...

"Regardless of a soul’s final destination, upon receiving Pharasma’s judgment, it finds itself changed. No longer a mortal being, the soul has become a petitioner, a true native of the plane it now inhabits. Petitioners are outsiders, and as they’ve begun new lives, they can no longer be returned to life by mortal magic."

So True Resurrection works for a creature that has been dead up to 10 years per Caster Level, as long as that soul hasn't already been judged. In which case the spell fails.

There's a new spell in Planar Adventures for bringing back someone after they've been judged, called "Judgement Undone". But that's a whole 'nother ball of wax.


I also think that, while the thread may not have wanted to come back, resurrecting it would appeal to Vraxeris' sense of vanity.


Yossarian wrote:

Since this thread has been raised from the dead: according to the new Planar Adventures, a soul travels to the Boneyard after 'death', is judged, and then moves on to an Outer plane. And...

"Regardless of a soul’s final destination, upon receiving Pharasma’s judgment, it finds itself changed. No longer a mortal being, the soul has become a petitioner, a true native of the plane it now inhabits. Petitioners are outsiders, and as they’ve begun new lives, they can no longer be returned to life by mortal magic."

So True Resurrection works for a creature that has been dead up to 10 years per Caster Level, as long as that soul hasn't already been judged. In which case the spell fails.

There's a new spell in Planar Adventures for bringing back someone after they've been judged, called "Judgement Undone". But that's a whole 'nother ball of wax.

<casts Thread Hi-jack on recently resurrected thread>

Just how long is judgement supposed to take? How is anyone (including the GM) supposed to know whether it's already happened?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Latrecis wrote:
Yossarian wrote:

Since this thread has been raised from the dead: according to the new Planar Adventures, a soul travels to the Boneyard after 'death', is judged, and then moves on to an Outer plane. And...

"Regardless of a soul’s final destination, upon receiving Pharasma’s judgment, it finds itself changed. No longer a mortal being, the soul has become a petitioner, a true native of the plane it now inhabits. Petitioners are outsiders, and as they’ve begun new lives, they can no longer be returned to life by mortal magic."

So True Resurrection works for a creature that has been dead up to 10 years per Caster Level, as long as that soul hasn't already been judged. In which case the spell fails.

There's a new spell in Planar Adventures for bringing back someone after they've been judged, called "Judgement Undone". But that's a whole 'nother ball of wax.

<casts Thread Hi-jack on recently resurrected thread>

Just how long is judgement supposed to take? How is anyone (including the GM) supposed to know whether it's already happened?

It's 100% up to the GM to decide. It could be instant. It could never happen. All left up to the GM. Or the writer of the story/adventure.

The GM knows because they're the one who, ultimately, gets to make the decision if it's not specifically spelled out in the adventure... and even then if it is, the GM gets to change that reality if they want.

EDIT: One of the main reasons we don't nail down the process to be something that always takes the same amount of time is that the amount of time that can pass for a spell like true resurrection to still work is variable, depending on caster level, but has an ultimate theoretical limit of 200 years since caster levels for mortals generally cap-out at 20th.


Not quite, not for a 20th level caster of true resurrection. A strand of prayer beads adds +4 via the karma bead. An orange prism ioun stone adds +1, or +(1d4-1) if it is a resonant orange prism ioun stone in an appropriate sympathetic device, usually a wayfinder.

The combination of Spell Focus (conjuration) and Varisian Tattoo (conjuration) adds another 1 to CL. This is about as reasonable as could typically be expected from a character that doesn't completely "gonzo" for all things (healing). 20 +4 +1 +1 = CL 26th, perhaps as high as 29th albeit unreliably so.

260 years is a practical limit, although it can be pushed further out to perhaps 300 years or a little more.

I suggest that GMs should feel free to state that 300 years from the 'anniversary' of death is a sufficient amount of in-game time to declare anything to have been judged by Pharasma, even if their corpse was wearing a sihedron amulet the entire time. As Mssr. Jacobs pointed out, the caveats of (a) being unwilling to return; and (b) that Judgement happened much faster than 300 years, always supersedes even the 3-century-mark.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

The Mad Comrade wrote:

Not quite, not for a 20th level caster of true resurrection. A strand of prayer beads adds +4 via the karma bead. An orange prism ioun stone adds +1, or +(1d4-1) if it is a resonant orange prism ioun stone in an appropriate sympathetic device, usually a wayfinder.

The combination of Spell Focus (conjuration) and Varisian Tattoo (conjuration) adds another 1 to CL. This is about as reasonable as could typically be expected from a character that doesn't completely "gonzo" for all things (healing). 20 +4 +1 +1 = CL 26th, perhaps as high as 29th albeit unreliably so.

260 years is a practical limit, although it can be pushed further out to perhaps 300 years or a little more.

I suggest that GMs should feel free to state that 300 years from the 'anniversary' of death is a sufficient amount of in-game time to declare anything to have been judged by Pharasma, even if their corpse was wearing a sihedron amulet the entire time. As Mssr. Jacobs pointed out, the caveats of (a) being unwilling to return; and (b) that Judgement happened much faster than 300 years, always supersedes even the 3-century-mark.

200 years, 260 years, 300 years... that's all semantics and doesn't change the point I was making.

GMs should ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS feel free to simply rule a judgement happens when they want. PCs don't get to decide every single story element.

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