infernal healing and gold reagent


Rules Questions


2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

Pretty simple: infernal healing gives fast healing 1 for 1 minute. Gold reagent from the alchemy manual gives a conjugation (healing) spell +1 point of healing. How do the two interact?

Shadow Lodge

I'd go for one additional HP in the first round.

Shadow Lodge

This could really go either way.

Does the alchemical component lengthen fast healing's duration, or does it provide a quick burst of faster healing? There's no indication.


Yeah... I see it as ruled in two ways:
1. The fast healing is increased to two for the first round.
2. The fast healing duration is increased by 1 round.

As Avatar-1 said, there really is no indication either way, so expect a lot of table variance.

I would frown upon the the third ruling
3. Fast healing is increased to two for the duration of the spell.

I don't see this as balanced and I would never allow that to pass in any game of mine. (Although if I was a player and a GM ruled this way, then I would roll with it.)


Considering I'm pretty brutal in games (such as my legendary kobold warren taking out 9th level party of 5 with traps and alchemical items. You survive in my games by being smart, not GOD-powered), I'd probably rule that the fast healing is increased to 2 points for the duration of the spell... If only because my players probably need it.

That said... For any campaign which doesn't have a living world and you may run into a hostile dragon at level 1 as a random encounter, you should probably make it only work 1 round.


Artemis Moonstar wrote:

Considering I'm pretty brutal in games (such as my legendary kobold warren taking out 9th level party of 5 with traps and alchemical items. You survive in my games by being smart, not GOD-powered), I'd probably rule that the fast healing is increased to 2 points for the duration of the spell... If only because my players probably need it.

That said... For any campaign which doesn't have a living world and you may run into a hostile dragon at level 1 as a random encounter, you should probably make it only work 1 round.

Regardless of my own personal feelings on this you as a GM is free to rule any way you see fit. I doubt you could pass it as RAW, however.


Weirdo wrote:
I'd go for one additional HP in the first round.

This


Without adding a house rule, it would heal 1 damage when cast and provide Fast Healing 1. A spell that grants a supernatural ability is not the same as a spell that heals x damage instantaneously.


Infernal healing does not heal hit points. It gives the recipient fast healing 1. Thus they don't interact at all.


Please quote the rules to clarify next time, or add a link to it.

Without proper reading, I'd go with what Rikkan say.


Ctrl-F "gold"

Gold wrote:

Source Alchemy Manual pg. 0 (Amazon)

Price 5 gp; Weight —
In its purest form, gold is a dense, nonreactive metal. Its alchemical products are useful in stains and in treating swelling, pain, and infections.
Power Component
Doses 1 (5 gp); Spells healing subschool
Effect +1 hit point healed

This item assumes that Healing subschool effects provide actual healing, but does not expressly require that they do.

Use with Infernal Healing should cause the spell to heal 1HP immediately and then provide 'fast healing 1', which heals 1HP once per round on the affected creature's initiative.


Interesting, pfsrd gave me a different description: "Spells of the healing subschool heal +1 hit point if they heal hit points."


HectorVivis wrote:

Please quote the rules to clarify next time, or add a link to it.

Without proper reading, I'd go with what Rikkan say.

Infernal healing is from the healing subschool.

What the spell does doesn't matter, using gold adds one hitpoint when you cast the spell.
It's one point, immediately granted. The spell continues to function as written, without alteration.


1. This thread died 7 years ago.
2. It causes the spell to increase the healing it provides, and since infernal healing doesn't heal, it doesn't nothing.


Agreed, granting fast healing=/=actually healing.


willuwontu wrote:

...

2. It causes the spell to increase the healing it provides, and since infernal healing doesn't heal, it doesn't nothing.

There is nothing in the reagent text, also posted above to state that it requires the spell to do any healing. Only that the spell be of the healing subschool.

RAW, the reagent has the same effect on CLW as it does on Remove Disease or Regenerate Ki.


Carrauntoohil wrote:
RAW, the reagent has the same effect on CLW as it does on Remove Disease or Regenerate Ki.

Yes, which is that it increases the hit points healed, by 1.

If this was a spell

Quote:


Delayed Healing
School conjuration (healing); Level bard 2, cleric 2, druid 3, paladin 3, ranger 3
This spell functions like cure light wounds, except that the healing occurs 1 round after the spell is cast.

Would it heal for 1 hit point upon it being cast, or would it increase the healing applied the next round? And why?


AwesomenessDog wrote:
Agreed, granting fast healing=/=actually healing.

Wat 0_o ?!?


willuwontu wrote:
Carrauntoohil wrote:
RAW, the reagent has the same effect on CLW as it does on Remove Disease or Regenerate Ki.
Yes, which is that it increases the hit points healed, by 1.

It doesn't say that it increases the hit points healed by the spell. It says "+1 hit point healed". That is the only text for what this reagent does and it appears on the inside front cover of the Alchemy manual.

EDIT: Technically not the only text for what it does, the exact text was posted above by Archaeik and linked to on AoN in my previous post.

Are you by any chance basing your interpretation on the wildly different text from d20pfsrd which includes an additional stipulation that has no source in the rules?/EDIT

No hit points healed by the base spell +1 hit point healed by the gold = 1 hit point healed total.

Quote:
If this was a spell...

If frogs had wings they wouldn't bang their... backsides... off the ground all the time.

The Rules Questions forum is for discussing existing rules text. If you want to discuss your homebrew spell, there's another forum for that.


Carrauntoohil wrote:
It says "+1 hit point healed".

Which means that it increase the hp healed by the spell by 1.

No healing != 0 healing, just as items without a price != price of 0. If you have an ability to get items of a certain price or less (such as a Divine Assessor), you still can't select artifacts or other items without a price.

Quote:

If frogs had wings they wouldn't bang their... backsides... off the ground all the time.

The Rules Questions forum is for discussing existing rules text. If you want to discuss your homebrew spell, there's another forum for that.

It's also a place to discuss how things would hypothetically work under the rules. Nice dodging the question though.

But sure, since you want a real spell, here, how about Minor/Greater Reversion. When would they receive the increased healing from the gold? When the spell is cast or when the effect is triggered?


willuwontu wrote:

It's also a place to discuss how things would hypothetically work under the rules. Nice dodging the question though.

But sure, since you want a real spell, here, how about Minor/Greater Reversion. When would they receive the increased healing from the gold? When the spell is cast or when the effect is triggered?

I think I've already specifically answered how I though (see below) this power component reacts with all spells of the healing subschool.

It's not 'dodging the question' to refuse to repeat myself.

That said, per the paragraph of text at the top of the same inside cover of the Alchemy Manual, my interpretation was incorrect.

The Text wrote:
...and augments only an effect the spell already produces...

Kinda sad that I had to provide my own rules text to disprove my position though. Surely that should have been your job.


No, what is sad is that someone necro'ed a 6yo argument, and people took the opportunity to start arguing, again.

Whatever your way of looking at it, I think everyone agrees it is not Fast Healing 2 for 1 minute... which means it is 1hp... it is not worth arguing about 1hp... ever. Let it die... nobody cares.


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MrCharisma wrote:
AwesomenessDog wrote:
Agreed, granting fast healing=/=actually healing.
Wat 0_o ?!?

In the interest of not letting it die, receiving an ability that happens to do healing is not the same thing as a spell directly healing someone, therefore there is no healing to increase.


AwesomenessDog wrote:
MrCharisma wrote:
AwesomenessDog wrote:
Agreed, granting fast healing=/=actually healing.
Wat 0_o ?!?
In the interest of not letting it die, receiving an ability that happens to do healing is not the same thing as a spell directly healing someone, therefore there is no healing to increase.

In the interests of also not letting it die, I would agree with this.

Granting Fast Healing is providing a named special ability, not directly healing the damage itself via the spell.

On this basis, and with the text I quoted in my last post, I don't think the gold has any effect on Infernal Healing.


VoodistMonk wrote:

No, what is sad is that someone necro'ed a 6yo argument, and people took the opportunity to start arguing, again.

Whatever your way of looking at it, I think everyone agrees it is not Fast Healing 2 for 1 minute... which means it is 1hp... it is not worth arguing about 1hp... ever. Let it die... nobody cares.

You know what this post did?

It prevented the thread from dying.

;D

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