
Xavram5 |
I've seen this in the game I'm currently in, where the characters who use a 2-H weapon are just getting whupped in the AC department and really paying the price for this. Doesn't seem the like the damage they do with a 2-H weapon offsets the fight time enough to help with their poor AC.
I'm messing with a Fighter build for an upcoming campaign and want to make 2-H weapon fighter but I'm having the same issues. Beyond the obvious ("invest in +5 armor, rings, nat armor amulet"), what other suggestions do people have for a fighter who keeps getting smacked in the face because he chose to use a 2H weapon?
Curious to see what others have done with this, as I assume its not just a problem I've seen within my gaming group. Thanks!

Claxon |
3 people marked this as a favorite. |

Can you hear them over the sound of the dying enemy?
But really, I don't think many people's experience matches up with this. Especially since the difference between AC for a two handed weapon versus a sword and shield, is usually pretty small. It's at most 2 at level one, and 7 once they fully enhance a shield (which is not cheap). At least assuming everything else in the builds are equivalent, which they can be.
Now, if the two-handed characters aren't putting any resources into AC and neglecting it in favor of overwhelming offense...well there's your problem.
You shouldn't be getting hit much more often wielding a two-handed weapon than someone wielding a shield.
This seems like a combination of poor tactics or not investing resources into AC.
Can you post you build, that will help to identify potential improvements.
Edit: Also, in general two-hand damage should well exceed pretty much any other melee attack style with exceptions for Paladins and Rangers which can get huge damage bonuses to each individual attack with Favored Enemy and Smite.
Are the two-handers adding 1.5 strength for twohanding a weapon and +3/-1 for Power Attack?

Thomas Long 175 |
Don't buy 20 strength at the start. Go with 16 + 2 racial then make sure to put a 14 in dex.
Look for your little +1 bonuses. Jingasa of the fortunate solider, certain ioun stones, a fighter trait that gives +1 to AC in medium or heavy armor.
Don't max out 1 item and then move on to another, get all your +1 items out of the way then upgrade to +2

Thomas Long 175 |
Also, cracked purple ioun Stone and a stack of shield scrolls for your wizard friend. Now, you can 2hand a weapon with a +4 force shield and be magic missle immune too!
Shield is personal, not creature touched. It only works on the person casting it. That being said invest a few points in UMD and get a wand.

Darksol the Painbringer |

@ Claxon: The difference can be even higher, with Shield Focus and Greater Shield Focus granting +2 to AC (with Shield Specialization applying a shield's base amount plus Shield Foci increase to CMD as well). Shields are great defensive items for a reason; it's the same explanation as to why the Greeks hardly wore armor, because their battle formations usually involved shields covering oncoming arrows and javelins and what have you.
@ Xavram5: I'm a level 10 Mobile Fighter using a Greatsword in our slightly-houseruled Evil campaign with a 16 Dexterity (14 + 2 from belt), and I'm walking around with a fairly low 30 AC total. With a +1 Mithril Full Plate (+10 AC) rocking a +5 Max Dexterity Bonus (+3 Dexterity to AC), a +1 Living Steel Buckler with Shield Focus, Greater Shield Focus, and Shield Specialization (+4 AC, +3 to CMD), as well as a Dodge feat (+1 AC), Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier (+1 AC), and a +1 Amulet of Natural Armor, I get hit a lot more often than you think, when I'm running into creatures whom are 2 hit dice over my character level that have a +20 to-hit on their first attacks.
Needless to say, I use the Fight Defensively option very frequently, increasing my AC to 32, increasing to 35 if I have to go Total Defense (when my full attacks just won't work in a given situation). I'm also planning to invest into Combat Expertise later down the road when I get a +4 Intelligence headband (I have a +2 Intelligence headband right now), granting me another +3 AC at the minimum, scaling up to +6 at 20th.
The best part is my offense isn't hardly compromised, with my +1 Greatsword, a +7 Strength Modifier to each attack, Leaping Attack gramting +2, Power Attack at +9 (+12 for me thanks to a magic item, though another -1 to hit), +2 from Weapon Specialization, I'm sitting at a comfortable +21 to damage on each hit. That's not including my increased Power Attack (+3), or my Divine Favor which I get 3/day from a special power with my Legacy Armor (+3), making it a whopping 2D6+27 per attack. (GM has to constantly throw DR 10/Alignment creatures at us for us to not ROFLStomp it in a single round).
My to-hit isn't bad at all either; with a +10 BAB, +1 Greatsword, +5 Strength, +2 Leaping Attack, +2 from WF and GWF (though -1 buckler), a +19 to-hit is a little above average for a character of my level. That's not throwing in my homebrew Divine Favor, racking it up to +22 without flanking (making it +24).
It's not too difficult to build up my defense or offense, and I actually went a fairly-inferior route, all things considered. I'm with Claxon though; posting your build is very important in finding out where the problems lie. For all we know, you're overlooking very crucial information that leads to your builds being "squishy".

Thomas Long 175 |
That's why you have them cast it into the Ioun Stone. It's a spell storing item, so you can use it later yourself.
And you don't get the much cheaper wand why? Not to mention the umd allows you to at least mimic a caster if a situation comes up.
The wand is cheaper than scrolls on a cost/charge basis anyways. Throwing in the ioun stone just makes it way more expensive.

Thomas Long 175 |
@ Xavram5: I'm a level 10 Mobile Fighter using a Greatsword in our slightly-houseruled Evil campaign with a 16 Dexterity (14 + 2 from belt), and I'm walking around with a fairly low 30 AC total. With a +1 Mithril Full Plate (+10 AC) rocking a +5 Max Dexterity Bonus (+3 Dexterity to AC), a +1 Living Steel Buckler with Shield Focus, Greater Shield Focus, and Shield Specialization (+4 AC, +3 to CMD), as well as a Dodge feat (+1 AC), Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier (+1 AC), and a +1 Amulet of Natural Armor, I get hit a lot more often than you think, when I'm running into creatures whom are 2 hit dice over my character level that have a +20 to-hit on their first attacks.
Honestly I wouldn't have gone Mithral fullplate so early. That 9000 gold you're not using is a hefty chunk of wealth by level. There's another ioun stone that gives you +1 AC for 5000 gold. The ring of deflection is another good investment.

TGMaxMaxer |
The stone is hands free, one. 2nd, it uses the caster level of the caster, so it will last longer than a minute (provided they cast it themselves, which is why I actually spent the money on a 1st level PoP on my fighter/rogue, also gives flex for alt choices).
At lower levels, this isn't really a concern, because an AC of 18-20 is fine. At higher levels, 2-3k gold isn't a bad investment (considering a +2 shield would be 4k)
The Wand thing is fine, if you have the skills as a fighter (most don't) to burn on UMD.
I actually have used the Ioun stone and a wand of shield for my PFS half-orc. Everyone knows that he is going to ask the most obvious "waggle fingers" to "put magic from stick into rock plz".
I used it for Prot evil , I used it for CLW, there are a lot of 1st level spells that are insanely useful at low levels (3-6), and some that remain useful even later.

dragonhunterq |

I've seen this in the game I'm currently in, where the characters who use a 2-H weapon are just getting whupped in the AC department and really paying the price for this. Doesn't seem the like the damage they do with a 2-H weapon offsets the fight time enough to help with their poor AC.
I'm messing with a Fighter build for an upcoming campaign and want to make 2-H weapon fighter but I'm having the same issues. Beyond the obvious ("invest in +5 armor, rings, nat armor amulet"), what other suggestions do people have for a fighter who keeps getting smacked in the face because he chose to use a 2H weapon?
Curious to see what others have done with this, as I assume its not just a problem I've seen within my gaming group. Thanks!
That's just part of the fun of being a 2H fighter i'm afraid.
If you don't think the trade off is worth it, then retrain as a sword and board fighter.
or rather than improve AC try to improve initiative and damage output (large Falcata is fun i'm told!) and kill it before it can kill you.
or try and improve your durability - more hp and damage absorb effects (like energy resistance against your DMs favourite energy type).
or retrain with a 2H reach weapon and hide behind the sword and board fighter/paladin/wizard.

Darksol the Painbringer |

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:@ Xavram5: I'm a level 10 Mobile Fighter using a Greatsword in our slightly-houseruled Evil campaign with a 16 Dexterity (14 + 2 from belt), and I'm walking around with a fairly low 30 AC total. With a +1 Mithril Full Plate (+10 AC) rocking a +5 Max Dexterity Bonus (+3 Dexterity to AC), a +1 Living Steel Buckler with Shield Focus, Greater Shield Focus, and Shield Specialization (+4 AC, +3 to CMD), as well as a Dodge feat (+1 AC), Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier (+1 AC), and a +1 Amulet of Natural Armor, I get hit a lot more often than you think, when I'm running into creatures whom are 2 hit dice over my character level that have a +20 to-hit on their first attacks.
Honestly I wouldn't have gone Mithral fullplate so early. That 9000 gold you're not using is a hefty chunk of wealth by level. There's another ioun stone that gives you +1 AC for 5000 gold. The ring of deflection is another good investment.
It's my Legacy Armor, it didn't cost me anything to have, and I can still enhance it like any other armor. Mithril allows me to sleep in it thanks to Endurance feat, and increases MDB by 2, making it +3 (+5 thanks to Armor Training II, and I can still move my full speed and use Acrobatics). It's a heck of a lot better than Living Steel (though still good, is much cheaper to get on a Buckler), and cheaper than Adamantine by 6k, not to mention the superior defensive option if you have the Dexterity to accommodate it (all Fighters should be running with +6 Physical Perfection belts by the endgame anyway, meaning if you have even a 10 Dexterity, the +3 takes effect).
That being said, you're probably right, as I actually got that item when I was 6th level. Then again, I'm one of the 3 tanks in our group, including our Swashbuckler (who actually has more AC than I do, and can get his AC in the low 40's if he really wants), and Invulnerable Rager Barbarian (who has DR 5/-). I deal more damage than the Swashbuckler (though I don't Crit as often), and have significantly higher AC than the Barbarian (though his 2D8 Large Bastard Sword and Rage still outweigh my damaging capabilities..). When I get access to 3 attacks and my Blessing of Fervor SLA, as well Boots of Speed, I will definitely outweigh them.

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By mid levels, AC can be easily outpaced by your enemy's attack bonus. There comes a point where it becomes more expensive to increase AC than it's worth.
I suggest buying a few scrolls of Displacement and kindly asking someone to cast that upon you in the first round of combat. Five rounds of 50% miss chance is amazing.
See if you can convince the party arcane caster to prepare it for you.
Stoneskin also works great and is well worth the price.

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Claxon pretty much said it: if you're spending the suggested 25% WBL on protection then your AC should scale with you roughly +1 AC per level - a little slower at early levels, but by the end game that same 25% is buying you more than a mere +1 increase per level. It'll scale a little worse for a two-hander, 'cos you're missing out on one of the 'big four' AC boosting items (a shield), and stuff like Defending weapons and the like are more costly, but you shouldn't be too far behind.
(Of course, if you're basing your AC targets on published Paizo NPCs then expect to get hit... a lot... as the published NPCs tend to have atrocious ACs for their levels. But I digress...)
Beyond that there are Feats you can take (Combat Expertise being the basic one that scales as you level), you can fight defensively, you can try to get in positions to give you some cover, you can use the Intimidate skill to demoralise the enemy (the shaken condition gives them a -2 to hit), etc. - lots of options, really. Nothing will protect you from bad luck though...

Darksol the Painbringer |

2 levels of alchemist...
Extra arm discovery - use a shield (+2 shields are pretty cheap)
Also benefit from extra strength, natural armor, occasional bombs, occasional extracts...it works wonders.
Delayed Fighter level progression, lower BAB, and lacking endgame features may not be worth the 2 level dip. Maybe in PFS it is, but not in a real game that goes up to 20th level.

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Are you using your superior reach to get AoOs whilst simultaneously preventing foes from full attacking you? You do wield a reach weapon, right? That's the main point of two-handing a weapon ...
Have you learned how not to take full attacks? Clever tactics often allow a reach weapon wielder to get attacks on the enemy while hardly ever taking a full attack in return.
Does your GM like to have monsters rush close and take your AoOs, or does your GM prefer to have monsters avoid your reach bubble? You win either way ... The 'reach bubble avoidance' factor should give you (and your allies) a large defensive benefit. Are you using this to its fullest? Historically speaking, most reach weapons (not the lance!) were defensive weapons: this is because they radiate stay away from me!
Rodinia specializes in using superior reach to defeat tough bruiser melee foes who have multiple attacks, like ghouls, trolls, yeti, etc. She does best when facing multiple opponents. She generally uses this approach:
1. Land two or more polearm attacks (typically a readied action and one or more AoO) before the foe(s) get close enough for one attack.
2. Use her special power (a 1st level cleric domain ability) to instantly be away from the foe where she can attack from 15' or 20' away, again using her superior reach. The foe is usually too far away to full attack on its turn.
3. The foe must take another AoO from Rodinia to get its one attack.
Rodinia typically trades three of her hard-hitting attacks for every one or two enemy attacks, and foes are rarely able to full attack. This is the extreme version of using reach, but even the standard version should go a long way towards mitigating enemy attacks on you and your allies. Obviously this provides no protection versus ranged attacks, but that's rarely the big threat.
Of course, if you stay close to this sort of tough foe (wielding, say, a greatsword), without the extra AC from a shield and without the protective reach bubble, then you should expect to get clobbered. Two handed fighters need to use good tactics, or exactly what you describe may occur.

Claxon |

Also, keep in mind that to-hit usually scales much faster than AC. At a certain point in the game, AC isn't about not being hit. It's about not being hit by the iterative attacks. Usually on full BAB classes their to hit is so high they have 75% chance or higher of hitting on their first attack. Your AC is mostly their to block their follow up attacks that have 50%/25% chance to hit.
Unless you go full on turtle build to jack your AC to insane levels you're unlikely to ever block the first attack an enemy makes. And if you do turtle up, your damage output will fall to almost nothing.
You'll be a fighter that can't fight, a burden on the rest of your party.
Post your build please, and we can give better more specific advice.

Nicos |
Can you hear them over the sound of the dying enemy?
But really, I don't think many people's experience matches up with this. Especially since the difference between AC for a two handed weapon versus a sword and shield, is usually pretty small. It's at most 2 at level one, and 7 once they fully enhance a shield (which is not cheap).
The diference is not that big against BBEG if they will hit you anyways. But against multiple minions those point means much more.

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I've also been wondering what's a good AC to shoot for. I mostly play PFS, which pretty much stops after level 11.
I've read about the 20+level rule of thumb, which is supposed to be pretty good AC, without spending excessively on AC to go full turtle and lose offensive capability because of it. Do you all think that's a good rule of thumb?
I currently have a sword and board battle oracle with 25 AC at level 5, but he just hasn't been attacked that much the last few times I've played him, so I'm having trouble telling. You'd think I'd be up front tanking and getting attacked a lot, but there's usually at least 2 other front liners in any group, and we've had some oddball scenarios that have kept me from the front lines in a couple of fights. He also tends to drop AC by enlarging himself in boss fights for more damage.
I'm also starting a new fighter character, where I'm thinking of trying to go two handed for more damage, but still AC tank through the use of decent dex, feats, and maybe the Defender of the Society trait. As a tiefling, I can use the Armor of the Pit feat for +2 natural armor, and the fighter armor training will let more than +1 of my dex bonus apply, even in full plate. Since I'll have all those fighter bonus feats, and two handed fighting doesn't require a ton of feats to do high damage, I'll easily be able to pick up Dodge and Mobility along the way. Doing the math, I think I can maintain an AC of 22 or 23 higher than my level pretty easily from the time I get full plate at level 2 through level 11, at least.

Blueluck |

I've seen this in the game I'm currently in, where the characters who use a 2-H weapon are just getting whupped in the AC department and really paying the price for this...
As much as you can, please post the builds for everyone in that party and describe the party dynamics a bit.
I ask because I don't think you're seeing a problem with the AC of two-handed fighters. You're describing multiple characters using two-handers and getting beat up. Who are you comparing them to? Are they getting attacked more often then the other characters?

Scott Wilhelm |
Whenever possible, I like layers of defense. I like to have a miss chance. The Keen Scent Feat + Blind Fighting, and then get an Eversmoking Bottle. The rest of the party might resent going blind, but if it's not a PFS campaign, you have some right to expect them to adapt to you, too, and if they do, it will be a devastating tactic for the whole party. In 3.5, there is a family of Feats called Combat Focus Feats. They are sort of the opposite of a Barbarian Rage, and one of them gave you Blindsight 5'.
Damage Reduction. Adamantine armor, of course, then there is the Armor Master Fighter Archetype. There are psionic powers that give you damage reduction.
Fast Healing: in 3.5, there was a Combat Focus Feat that gave you Fast Healing, Combat Vigor. In Pathfinder, there is Infernal Healing, but my favorite way is to gain 2 or 4 levels in Alchemist and get a Tumor Familiar. Use Share Spells to make your familiar cast Alchemal Allocation, and then have it use a Potion of Shield Other. Now your Familiar will take half your damage, and its damage will be offset by the fact that while attached to you, it gains Fast Healing 5.

Scott Wilhelm |
Cascade wrote:Delayed Fighter level progression, lower BAB, and lacking endgame features may not be worth the 2 level dip. Maybe in PFS it is, but not in a real game that goes up to 20th level.2 levels of alchemist...
Extra arm discovery - use a shield (+2 shields are pretty cheap)
Also benefit from extra strength, natural armor, occasional bombs, occasional extracts...it works wonders.
Most real games don't really go up to 20th level, either. Meanwhile, while your 1st level in Alchemist doesn't increase your BAB, it will give you a +2 in both your Fort and Reflex saves. Also, the Alchemist Mutagen can give you a +4 to Strength, which translates to a +2 to hit, granted for just 10 minutes, but the alchemist can whip up a new batch in just 1 hour as opposed to 1/day for recovering spells, and anyway the relative -1 BAB seems at least offset.

KaiserDM |

I'm new to PF, having just converted over from 3.5 not too long ago, but does the Animated property still exist for shields? That's always been my go to (as soon as I have the money) is to upgrade my shield to animated (+2 property) and then take the 2H weapon to increase my damage output. It's a mid-level solution due to the $$, but one that tacks the middle of the road well.

Claxon |

I'm new to PF, having just converted over from 3.5 not too long ago, but does the Animated property still exist for shields? That's always been my go to (as soon as I have the money) is to upgrade my shield to animated (+2 property) and then take the 2H weapon to increase my damage output. It's a mid-level solution due to the $$, but one that tacks the middle of the road well.
It exists, but isn't popular anymore because it now has a limited duration of 4 rounds. After which it falls to the ground and can't be released again for 4 rounds.
Animated: As a move action, an animated shield can be loosed to defend its wielder on its own. For the following 4 rounds, the shield grants its bonus to the one who loosed it and then drops. While animated, the shield provides its shield bonus and the bonuses from all of the other shield special abilities it possesses, but it cannot take actions on its own, such as those provided by the bashing and blinding abilities. It can, however, use special abilities that do not require an action to function, such as arrow deflection and reflecting. While animated, a shield shares the same space as the activating character and accompanies the character who activated it, even if the character moves by magical means. A character with an animated shield still takes any penalties associated with shield use, such as armor check penalty, arcane spell failure chance, and nonproficiency. If the wielder who loosed it has an unoccupied hand, she can grasp it to end its animation as a free action. Once a shield has been retrieved, it cannot be animated again for at least 4 rounds. This property cannot be added to a tower shield.
Strong transmutation; CL 12th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, animate objects; Price +2 bonus.

Claxon |

@Claxon - Hmmm. Yeah, that got nerfed.
It had to be to make using a one-handed weapon make sense.
Otherwise you could wield a two-handed weapon and have an animated shield and there wasn't a particularly good reason not to since it lasted as long as you needed it to.
There was virtually no drawback except price. It made sword and board builds unnecesary because it saved you only a little money comparatively.

Aelryinth RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16 |

aaaaand then they put in the Improved Buckler defense that gave shield AC to 2h'ers. So sword and board completely crashed.
If you want to maximize AC, just follow this post:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nrq2&page=4?How-do-you-learn-to-optimizemi nmax-well#162
and it will maximize AC by gold value.
==Aelryinth

Gherrick |

I have a level 8 fighter (no archetypes) that uses an adamantine dwarven dorn-derger +1 to very good effect. He does d10+20, which is more than enough per swing to make the enemy properly cringe. The only other person in the party that can even come close is the ranger, and even then he has to hit multiple times to match a single hit of mine. His AC is higher than all but the Kensai Magus, who has his AC beat by 4-8 points, depending on buffs (both a 'role'd as defenders, one with awesome touch AC, the other with awesome flat-footed AC, which is a good balance). Last fight, we were able to kill a behir in 1.5 rounds, right before it was able to swallow whole our halfling summoner (Cleric => Burning Disarm on the summoner's chain shirt was INSPIRED! First kill shot for the cleric the entire campaign).
To address the OP directly, my own experience is that fights end MUCH quicker when you focus on offense, as long as you don't let your saves and CMD suffer too much (CMD > AC, IMO). My fighter took the CMD bonus option vs grapple and trip, making it so the behir looked elsewhere for easier prey.

Scott Wilhelm |
For a long time, the traditional role of the Fighter has been just to keep the Wizard alive long enough for him to kill everybody with Fireballs and Lightning Bolts and stuff, and Sword and Board is the premier configuration for the Meat Shield.
The feat that really makes the 2 handed weapon come to life for me is Great Cleave. Great Cleave in 3.5 used to be what Great Cleaving Finish is today. Now it's a lot like Whirlwind Attack, but much cheaper to get. You can take Furious Focus for when you only have 1 opponent and Feats like Pushing Assault and Quick Bull Rush to set up your opponents for that sweet Cleave.
On the other hand, a Klar or Large, Spiked Shield with the Bashing Enchantment does as much damage as a Greatsword before any weapon enchantment bonuses, and still provides the shield AC bonus. And you can use a Klar in conjunction with an Earthbreaker hammer with the Thunder and Fang Feat. Klar can have the Bashing Enchantment, and you can take Shield Slam and Great Bull Rush. If you get Paired Opportunist, too, say with 1 Level in Cavalier or 3 levels in Inquisitor, you will get the Attacks of Opportunity along with everyone else.
Normally, you can't Bull Rush somebody into a wall or into an ally, but you can if you do it via Shield Smash. Then your victim provokes from your ally because you Great Bull Rushed him, then you get one because they get one, then you can Slam and Great Bull Rush them again for another round of AoO's while they just crumple to the floor and cry to keep their lunch money.

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Rodinia wrote:You do wield a reach weapon, right? That's the main point of two-handing a weapon ...My 5th level barbarian with an in play 90% kill rate (PFS) disagrees with your assessment.
Yeah, I was wondering about that myself. Reach weapons are good for battlefield control, but sometimes you limit yourself almost as much as the enemy.
As mentioned upthread, I'm currently building a tiefling fighter, and I'm definitely going two handed weapon with him, but I haven't decided if I'll go greatsword or a reach weapon. He's got a racial bite attack (Maw or Claw alternate racial trait), so I'm debating if I should use that as his 5 foot threaten in conjunction with a reach weapon, or if I should just use a greatsword and constantly bite as a secondary natural attack.
The shorter weapon lets me take an extra attack every round right from level 1 in this case, even if it is at -5 to hit and half strength bonus on the damage. With an 18 starting strength, that's still +0 to hit and 1d6+2 damage on the second attack at level 1, after my +6/2d6+6 greatsword primary attack (assuming I take Weapon Focus at level 1, which I probably will). So at this point, I'm leaning towards the greatsword.
And that's on a character with 20 AC at level 1 with just starting gold, quickly upgrading as soon as I get a little cash for something better than scale mail.

Scott Wilhelm |
Of course, weapons have their own equivalent to the Bashing enchantment, Impact, I think, also the Lead Blades Spell. Cast on a Greatsword or an Earthbreaker, it does an extra 1d6 damage.
And you could use something like an oversized Bastard Sword or oversized Dwarven Waraxe. You take a penalty, but maybe the damage bonus, +2 vis a vis a Greatsword or Earthbreaker, and then with a Lead Blades Spell, do an extra 1d8 instead of 1d6.
On the subject of big weapons with no shield, has anyone tried using a Scizore? It's a 1-handed martial weapon that does 1d10 and provides a +1 shield bonus, but you suffer a -1 to attack. Since it grants a shield bonus to AC, you wouldn't use a shield in your other hand. You would use a spear maybe, giving you a handy ranged option.

strayshift |
If you put things down quickly enough (Two Handed Fighter Archetype!) then you face less attacks. I know this is multi-classing but I played a 2h fighter/armoured hulk barbarian (bonus movement whilst in heavy armour and rage) - yes I occasionally (no frequently) got hurt but I smashed my way through so many encounters it became our normal tactic to buff and then back me up.
And that leads me to think perhaps your experience was actually about teamwork? Playing a fighter means you are dependant on casters to a high degree (healing, buffs, mobility, etc) and a 2h weapon fighter well played takes the attention from them. Talk to your casters, demand Enlarge, Haste, etc and then you'll find your fighters drop the bad guys quicker and you stay healthier.

strayshift |
strayshift wrote:Talk to your casters, demand Enlarge, Haste, etc and then you'll find your fighters drop the bad guys quicker and you stay healthier.I'd suggest asking politely. Nobody wants to be making will saves in their sleeping roll in the middle of the night.
Will they ask nicely when they want you to be a 'meat shield?'

Thomas Long 175 |
Thomas Long 175 wrote:Will they ask nicely when they want you to be a 'meat shield?'strayshift wrote:Talk to your casters, demand Enlarge, Haste, etc and then you'll find your fighters drop the bad guys quicker and you stay healthier.I'd suggest asking politely. Nobody wants to be making will saves in their sleeping roll in the middle of the night.
No, that's what charm person and dominate person are for. Thus the nightly will saves. :P

Michael Smith 978 |

I've seen this in the game I'm currently in, where the characters who use a 2-H weapon are just getting whupped in the AC department and really paying the price for this. Doesn't seem the like the damage they do with a 2-H weapon offsets the fight time enough to help with their poor AC.
I'm messing with a Fighter build for an upcoming campaign and want to make 2-H weapon fighter but I'm having the same issues. Beyond the obvious ("invest in +5 armor, rings, nat armor amulet"), what other suggestions do people have for a fighter who keeps getting smacked in the face because he chose to use a 2H weapon?
Curious to see what others have done with this, as I assume its not just a problem I've seen within my gaming group. Thanks!
Don't forget to invest in an Armored Kilt for a cheap 1 ac boost.

Corvino |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |

strayshift wrote:No, that's what charm person and dominate person are for. Thus the nightly will saves. :PThomas Long 175 wrote:Will they ask nicely when they want you to be a 'meat shield?'strayshift wrote:Talk to your casters, demand Enlarge, Haste, etc and then you'll find your fighters drop the bad guys quicker and you stay healthier.I'd suggest asking politely. Nobody wants to be making will saves in their sleeping roll in the middle of the night.
So *that's* why fighters always take Iron Will. It all makes sense now.