What exactly would a 20th level commoner be?


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Grand Lodge

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Lincoln Hills wrote:
doc the grey wrote:
Now I know this is a stupid question but seriously what would a character with 20 levels in commoner be in a Pathfinder world?
Arthur Dent.

Actually for commoners I'd think of the Seinfield Show. "No Hugging, No Learning" To be true to that statement, they never got a single point of XP. So they ended the series at first level.

The Exchange

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Yeah, but we're talking about people who got tons of XP and for some reason chose to stick to Commoner despite it all. He's the foremost literary figure I can think of who gained so much enlightenment, discovered so many secrets, had so many adventures, and had absolutely no interest in any of it (horror and frustration, occasionally, but never interest). In fact, his interest in adventuring actually went down from zero.

Shadow Lodge

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Socrates.
Gandhi.


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I'd say he'd most likely be Nodwick


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HaraldKlak wrote:


Actually he is just the common sort of farmer, who have been plagued with rats on his farm. Not enough to call adventurers to clean up, and he doesn't have a cat. But there is always enough of them, for him to kill 5 rats in solo combat each day.
Having worked his farm for 20 years, with an average of 5 rats killed every day, he has gotten enough xp for him to reach lvl 20.

If the CR is 10 or less lower than your APL, then you don't gain anymore xp from it.

I think it is like Samwise Gamgee. He left his home, regrettably, and only used skills like use rope, knowledge(nature), craft(cook), and with his low base attack bonus, and his one feat (improvise weapon) he hit goblins with cooking pots. By the end of the adventure he had been in the mitts of battles and huge monsters being slain. And he helped in what little way a commoner could, but never going beyond commoner. I would play a commoner all the way through a story, as long as the GM wrote something as enticing as The Lord of the Rings.


HaraldKlak wrote:
Wheldrake wrote:

Seems to me like a commoner would never reach 20th level without having branched off into an adventurer class. How would a farmer get the xp needed to even reach 6th or 10th?

Perhaps he was cursed with a long life and lived 500 years. Even then...

But it's a fun topic.

Actually he is just the common sort of farmer, who have been plagued with rats on his farm. Not enough to call adventurers to clean up, and he doesn't have a cat. But there is always enough of them, for him to kill 5 rats in solo combat each day.

Having worked his farm for 20 years, with an average of 5 rats killed every day, he has gotten enough xp for him to reach lvl 20.

Correct, very high level commoners are rare because they tend to die to raids, disease, old age, starvation before they reach any higher level. This usually represents a society that has pushed back several invasions or that went to the frontier and settled in a brand new encampment, creating the walls and buildings from their own 2 hands.


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Spastic Puma wrote:
Forrest Gump came to mind for some reason.

But not all of his levels are Commoner levels. He has to have at least one level as a Warrior. I would even throw in an Expert level or two as he seems to be very skilled for somebody of his limited intelligence.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

had another thought, it's the adventurer who never once tried to train in anything and was not apt to be a barbarian or sorcerer or something, he just adventures, nothing else, no training or path in life but the adventure.


Bandw2 wrote:
had another thought, it's the adventurer who never once tried to train in anything and was not apt to be a barbarian or sorcerer or something, he just adventures, nothing else, no training or path in life but the adventure.

That sounds awesome. I...can't...wait... to play that.


doc the grey wrote:

Now I know this is a stupid question but seriously what would a character with 20 levels in commoner be in a pathfinder world? Like I can figure out what an expert, warrior, or aristocrat could be theoretically be if they went 20 levels in their NPC class but for the life of me I cannot fathom what that looks like for a commoner. Is he like a peasant king, the penultimate farmer, what is he?

If anyone has any ideas let them fly I'm kind of interested to see what people come up with.

I most likely see this guy being a mundane master craftsman blessed by the gods. A humble man who loves his work. One known throughout the world. One who only takes a commission from someone of high moral standards and finally one that has been dead these past thousands of years. Because that person never exists in present time, no matter when that time is. A man of legend.


Jesus Quintana from the Big Lewbowski. Maybe Mrs. Bluberidge from the Muppet's Treasure Island.


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To the people bringing up XP: remember that there is such a thing as story awarded XP as well. Surely things like getting married and raising children would bring those sorts of rewards.


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The Commoner married the 15th level wizard's daughter and survived! +17,100 XP

*DING* You are now level six.

Sweet! the now 6th level commoner said as he put all of his skill points into Profession: Sexpert and Craft: Lovemaking.

[Edit] The commoner is just like an adventurer! Only, he wields a sword of an entirely different kind! >:)


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Or, maybe he declared a fast rising PC as his arch nemesis. As long as he didn't actually try to kill the PC, he'd gain levels with no risk. Level 20, here we come! :D


Ivan Rûski wrote:
To the people bringing up XP: remember that there is such a thing as story awarded XP as well. Surely things like getting married and raising children would bring those sorts of rewards.

But, also, you can only level up once from a lump sum of xp. You max out so that you need one more xp to get that next level. But you don't level all at once.


There's a Trope for that

It's named after this guy


Monte Cook's Ptolus had a 21st level commoner. She was an innkeeper or something. It was supposedly a misprint, she being the only epic-level character in the setting. The setting also featured a commoner we rescued who actually had 18 STR. We got him a job. (And then, I think, convinced him to switch to a different class.)

Scarab Sages

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*thinks of this*

*thinks of that*

When all is said and done, isn't it obvious?


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Philip J. Fry would certainly fit the bill.

Any average joe character who takes a seemingly unsurvivable amount of pain every so often could be considered such.


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Wish I could post pics


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Vod Canockers wrote:
Wish I could post pics

That reminds me... we finally know why the Mona Lisa is so 'intriguing'. She's a 20th level commoner!


Tels wrote:

The Commoner married the 15th level wizard's daughter and survived! +17,100 XP

*DING* You are now level six.

Sweet! the now 6th level commoner said as he put all of his skill points into Profession: Sexpert and Craft: Lovemaking.

[Edit] The commoner is just like an adventurer! Only, he wields a sword of an entirely different kind! >:)

If only....


Drako "The Merciful" wrote:
Ivan Rûski wrote:
To the people bringing up XP: remember that there is such a thing as story awarded XP as well. Surely things like getting married and raising children would bring those sorts of rewards.

But, also, you can only level up once from a lump sum of xp. You max out so that you need one more xp to get that next level. But you don't level all at once.

Mind pointing this rule out in the PRD? Because I've never heard of such a thing and I can't find it.

Shadow Lodge

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Odraude wrote:
Now imagine a lvl 20/MT10 Commoner. I'd like to imagine it'd have Divine Source and become god of all commoners.

Lol this is actually what I imagine one of the figureheads of a religion in my home game to be now. I always saw him as this hapless farmer who's life is like this series of lessons he's learned about life through the crazy crap that occurred to him and his family.

Link to said religion


Ivan Rûski wrote:
Drako "The Merciful" wrote:
Ivan Rûski wrote:
To the people bringing up XP: remember that there is such a thing as story awarded XP as well. Surely things like getting married and raising children would bring those sorts of rewards.

But, also, you can only level up once from a lump sum of xp. You max out so that you need one more xp to get that next level. But you don't level all at once.

Mind pointing this rule out in the PRD? Because I've never heard of such a thing and I can't find it.

...maybe that was 3.5 rules... sorry. I have to do more research.

PFT: maybe it's DnD 4? Bleh, I know I read it... maybe.


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Al Borland. Quintessential 20th level commoner.


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Some people said Sam Gamgee, but I would say Frodo was more likely a commoner. Sam at least fought pretty well. Frodo only survived because of some sweet armor someone gave him and he had some powerful friends. He also would have gotten some sweet XP for solving the word puzzle to enter Moria. He did pretty much nothing on his own, but survived tons of epic stuff.


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this guy


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
Matthulu wrote:
Some people said Sam Gamgee, but I would say Frodo was more likely a commoner. Sam at least fought pretty well. Frodo only survived because of some sweet armor someone gave him and he had some powerful friends. He also would have gotten some sweet XP for solving the word puzzle to enter Moria. He did pretty much nothing on his own, but survived tons of epic stuff.

he did one thing, walk across the entire continent with pure evil hanging from his neck, I think he did exactly as much as he needed to.


Captain America
After all there nothing special about him, he just a kid from Brooklyn


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I would imagine that level 20 Commoner would be the kind of person who's on the road a lot, stopping every once in a while to do the least glamorous and most necessary work possible. 20 ranks in Profession (Farmer) is enough to take blighted land and turn it into verdant pasture in a single season. 20 ranks in Knowledge (Engineering) and Craft (Woodworking) is enough to build a damn fine house out fallen lumber in a single week. The level 20 Commoner would be the kind of person who's always the first to do an extremely mundane but extremely important job. He'd plant the first sapling of a sprawling forest. He'd build the first house of a sprawling metropolis. He'd buy the first trade good of a massive financial institution. He'd make the first spearhead of an imperial arsenal.

The greatest, most memorable of deeds are performed by great and memorable heroes. But for the unstoppable gears to destiny to be set into motion requires just a single common man.


Bandw2 wrote:
Matthulu wrote:
Some people said Sam Gamgee, but I would say Frodo was more likely a commoner. Sam at least fought pretty well. Frodo only survived because of some sweet armor someone gave him and he had some powerful friends. He also would have gotten some sweet XP for solving the word puzzle to enter Moria. He did pretty much nothing on his own, but survived tons of epic stuff.
he did one thing, walk across the entire continent with pure evil hanging from his neck, I think he did exactly as much as he needed to.

True, he definitely has Iron Will and all the other feats like that

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Consider the Hulk as a farmer.

He doesn't want to learn big swords. He doesn't want to learn funny magic. He doesn't want to learn weird sneak. Why Hulk want sneak? Hulk just want be left alone. And beans. Hulk likes beans. So he grows beans. Lots and lots of beans.

Sometimes, goblins attack. Hulk hits them and they go squish. Sometimes, ogres attack. Hulk hits them and they go blorp. Sometimes, dragons attack. Hulk hits them and they go crunch. Then Hulk eats some more beans.

He's that big buy at the back of the bar spooning bean slop into his mouth and nobody gives him any trouble. He's the big shadow that everyone gives a wide berth.

No matter how many times you hit him, he doesn't go down. If you try to poison him, he just downs it and gives one big burp. If you try to charm him he doesn't get it. When Hulk comes to the bar, nobody picks a fight with him because he's Hulk. He can drink anybody under the table and doesn't bat an eye if somebody hits him with a chair. Then when everybody else is on the floor he goes home and eats some beans.

Hulk likes beans.


Dongarompa!

Shadow Lodge

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This.

Shadow Lodge

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RL- Joshua Abraham Norton.
Emperor Norton the first, Emperor of these United States and Protector of Mexico.

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

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A 20th level commoner would be outstanding in his field.

Spoiler:

Get it?! Out standing in his field, where he grows his crops!

Spoiler:

Uncle Joke!


Dot.


Maybe CR 8? 9 if kitted out with cool gear.


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Neurophage wrote:

I would imagine that level 20 Commoner would be the kind of person who's on the road a lot, stopping every once in a while to do the least glamorous and most necessary work possible. 20 ranks in Profession (Farmer) is enough to take blighted land and turn it into verdant pasture in a single season. 20 ranks in Knowledge (Engineering) and Craft (Woodworking) is enough to build a damn fine house out fallen lumber in a single week. The level 20 Commoner would be the kind of person who's always the first to do an extremely mundane but extremely important job. He'd plant the first sapling of a sprawling forest. He'd build the first house of a sprawling metropolis. He'd buy the first trade good of a massive financial institution. He'd make the first spearhead of an imperial arsenal.

The greatest, most memorable of deeds are performed by great and memorable heroes. But for the unstoppable gears to destiny to be set into motion requires just a single common man.

You mean like This guy?

Bonus animated version

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Jiggy wrote:
Thread title wrote:
What exactly would a 20th level commoner be?
A 10th-level fighter.

I came to the topic to say exactly this :(


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Ah good ol Jim the farmer. He knows two things. How to farm and how to pluck a banjo. Oh look, theres that celestial courier delivering yet another message from the Queen of Eternal Twilight trying to convince Jim to come perform in the Court of the Thousand Golden Moons. Silly celestial outsider. Doesn't he know that Jim is just an ordinary farmer, no different from me or you? He aint got time to play his banjo for divine queens of fortune, love, beauty, and dreams come true. He has to tend his crops like all the other common folk.


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WPharolin wrote:
Ah good ol Jim the farmer. He knows two things. How to farm and how to pluck a banjo. Oh look, theres that celestial courier delivering yet another message from the Queen of Eternal Twilight trying to convince Jim to come perform in the Court of the Thousand Golden Moons. Silly celestial outsider. Doesn't he know that Jim is just an ordinary farmer, no different from me or you? He aint got time to play his banjo for divine queens of fortune, love, beauty, and dreams come true. He has to tend his crops like all the other common folk.

Always time for banjos.

Dark Archive

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"Jon Everyman
Level 20 Commoner
HP: 140 (20d6 + 80)
AC: 12 T: 12 FF: 10
Melee: Unarmed Strike +12/+7 (1d3 + 2)
or
Club +12/+7 (1d4 + 3)
Ranged: Sling +11/+6 (1d4 + 2)
FORT: +15 REF: +12 WILL: +11

Feats: (10 + 1(Human)) Toughness, Endurance, Diehard, Improved Unarmed Strike, Skill Focus (Profession), Great Fortitude, Alertness, Fleet, Deft Hands/Deceitful/anything that gives a flat +2 bonus to some skills, Survivor, Catch Off Guard."

Accurate, but he's awful. A 5th level PC could solo him (I only say 5th level as he takes a lot of HP to wear down, especially with Diehard). But he can't do anything. What's the earliest a caster can reliably beat that Will Save?

We have to include more items for the poor sod. He can't Fly or detect Invisibility.

Anyone want to do some mathematics on earliest level to solo? I'm guessing 5th for a Barbarian or an Enchanter Wizard with Fly.


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John Henry of farming.


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The Torchbearer who lived.


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Matthulu wrote:
Some people said Sam Gamgee, but I would say Frodo was more likely a commoner. Sam at least fought pretty well. Frodo only survived because of some sweet armor someone gave him and he had some powerful friends. He also would have gotten some sweet XP for solving the word puzzle to enter Moria. He did pretty much nothing on his own, but survived tons of epic stuff.

Given their family backgrounds, I think Frodo, Merry, and Pippin would all qualify as aristocrats. They are clearly from the closest thing the hobbits had to noble families.


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In the movie House II, the electrician that shows up is a prime example of an adventuring commoner.

When it turns out the odd disturbances aren't wiring problems, the electrician states the problem is otherdimensional portals and without blinking an eye pulls out a sword from a toolbox to find the source of the problem. Portals to other dimensions aren't new to such a person, and is prepared for any occasion.

Seriously, a 20th level commoner is a person that has suffered so many bizarre incidents and bad luck while on the job that the commoner prepares like an adventurer (on top of preparing for routine work), yet does so in the performance of the commoner's mundane duties.


Petty Alchemy wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Thread title wrote:
What exactly would a 20th level commoner be?
A 10th-level fighter.
I came to the topic to say exactly this :(

You know, really, he's substantially closer to a 10 HD outsider with worse saves and fewer skills. While, technically, he'd qualify to be a CR 18, there's nothing close to being a CR 18 about him.

His class combat ability would be equal to a 10th level fighter, but his lower stats would hardly qualify, as has been shown by one build here.

Based on the chart for expected values, let's guesstimate his CR.

Quote:

Jon Everyman

Level 20 Commoner
HP: 140 (20d6 + 80)
AC: 12 T: 12 FF: 10
Melee: Unarmed Strike +12/+7 (1d3 + 2)
or
Club +12/+7 (1d4 + 3)
Ranged: Sling +11/+6 (1d4 + 2)
FORT: +15 REF: +12 WILL: +11

CR 10

hp 130
AC 24
Attack: 18 high/13 low
Damage: 45 high/33 low
DCs: 19 high/13 low
Saves: 13 good/9 poor

He has the hit points for CR 10 (actually a little extra - nearing CR 11's), but lacks the AC. His attacks are lower than the standard on all counts, and their saves are below standard (high fortitude, but the others are both too low). No DCs so we ignore that part. His damage... doesn't come close.

He's got the AC of a CR 1. He's got the damage of a CR 2, I think?

Now, one thing that's been ignored, is the NPC wealth.

His hypothetical CR by class level (which is what we're using to determine XP) is 18. That nets him 41,000 gold to play with. I bet we could actually make him somewhat pretty vicious with that...

...
...
... Ashiel?

Grand Lodge

Captain K. wrote:

"Jon Everyman

Level 20 Commoner
HP: 140 (20d6 + 80)
AC: 12 T: 12 FF: 10
Melee: Unarmed Strike +12/+7 (1d3 + 2)
or
Club +12/+7 (1d4 + 3)
Ranged: Sling +11/+6 (1d4 + 2)
FORT: +15 REF: +12 WILL: +11

Feats: (10 + 1(Human)) Toughness, Endurance, Diehard, Improved Unarmed Strike, Skill Focus (Profession), Great Fortitude, Alertness, Fleet, Deft Hands/Deceitful/anything that gives a flat +2 bonus to some skills, Survivor, Catch Off Guard."

Accurate, but he's awful. A 5th level PC could solo him (I only say 5th level as he takes a lot of HP to wear down, especially with Diehard). But he can't do anything. What's the earliest a caster can reliably beat that Will Save?

We have to include more items for the poor sod. He can't Fly or detect Invisibility.

Anyone want to do some mathematics on earliest level to solo? I'm guessing 5th for a Barbarian or an Enchanter Wizard with Fly.

But that's kind of exactly my point. Even a BASIC adventurer should be able to destroy an epic Commoner. However, how many adventurers REALLY exist in the world? Most of the people with class levels on Golarion are powerful rulers or knights fighting at the Worldwound or some other major designation. Jon Everyman is just the most powerful among the kinfolk.

Sure, to an adventurer he's pathetic. That's part and parcel of the commoner. But in his neck of the woods, where 90% of the population are other commoners, the only other classes he's likely to encounter would be Aristocrats and Experts? He's probably a god to them.

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