Grilka Longshadow (female half-orc ranger)
Skills:
STR 1d8 []+1 []+2 []+3 Melee +2
DEX 1d8 []+1 []+2 []+3
CON 1d8 []+1 []+2 Fortitude +2
INT 1d6 []+1 []+2
WIS 1d8 []+1 []+2 []+3 Divine +1, Survival +2
CHA 1d6 []+1 []+2
Cards: (Favored Card Type: Weapon)
Weapon 3 []4 []5
Spell 1 []2
Armor 2 []3
Item 3 []4 []5
Ally 3 []4 []5
Blessing 3 []4 []5
Powers: (Hand Size: 5 []6) Weapons [x] Light Armor [x] Heavy Armor []
*You may discard ([]or recharge) a melee weapon when making a combat check to add the non-attribute bonus die to you combat check, as if you were not playing a weapon.
*You may ignore start ([]or end) of turn effects created by a location.
Roles:
Tempest:
(Hand Size: 5 []6) Weapons [x] Light Armor [x] Heavy Armor []
*You may discard ([]or recharge) a melee weapon when making a combat check to add the non-attribute bonus die to you combat check, as if you were not playing a weapon.
*You may ignore start ([]or end) of turn effects created by a location.
*you may not play two-handed weapons.
[]If you succeed on a combat check, you may immediately explore again.
[]When you encounter a bane on your turn, if it is a monster, you may discard ([]or recharge) a weapon card to lower the difficulty of that bane by 1d6 []+1 []+2.
[]When you discard a weapon to play it, you may immediately draw a card.
[]You may add 2 []4 to your check to acquire a weapon.
Horselord:
(Hand Size: 5 []6 []7) Weapons [x] Light Armor [x] Heavy Armor []
*You may discard ([]or recharge) a melee weapon when making a combat check to add the non-attribute bonus die to you combat check, as if you were not playing a weapon.
*You may ignore start ([]or end) of turn effects created by a location.
*you may not play one-handed weapons
[]When you play allies with the animal trait, you may recharge them instead of discarding them.
[]You may recharge weapons instead of discarding them ([]or place them on top of your deck).
[]You may discard ([]or recharge) an ally with the animal trait to add 1d6 (with the magic trait) to your check to defeat a bane.
[]You gain Ranged: Dexterity +1 []+2.
While mostly designed as a two-weapon fighter, I thought putting together a version of a mounted combat character could be interesting. His horselord role has several powers related to animals, and his tempest role is completely geared towards rapid, flowing combat. As always, I welcome suggestions, questions, and comments!
not sure how i feel about each aide invalidating cards in my deck when i pick them up. it almost seems like which role i choose will be more dictated by what i find rather than personal prefrence.
Once again, you have a lot of interesting ideas here. Overall, a lot of good work. Let me get right into it:
Your skills are too dang high. Your dice add up to 44, and you have 7 secondary skill points, including 3 in prime secondary skills. At the very least cut the dice down to 42, I think the secondary skill count will be fine then.
I'm still not sure if your first power works, but it's probably the best template I've seen anyone give for that ability, so I'm not going to argue with it. Certainly better than anything I've made.
Having 3 weapons when you have a special power to discard them seems contradictory, I'd push that to 4 or possibly 5.
The restrictions in roles is definitely new and interesting. While it's certainly feasible, I've never seen any character be restricted to not being able to use something. You're in uncharted waters, and while that's not a bad thing, make sure that the character is more fun for having it than not having it. (Also, both of your roles have 7 powers, while the recommended max is 6, so that might be another consideration)
Free explore from combat scares the pants off of me. I think you need to tone that down, possibly a lot. Maybe give a favored enemy type that allows a free explore?
You already have an ability that allows you to discard (recharge) a weapon for a bonus, and now you have another that allows you to discard (recharge) a weapon for a slightly different bonus! I think this is a fine (if powerful, see my Hunter thread for the tribulations of a similar power) ability, but it does not pull its weight for this character.
Neither role changes any of your starting powers.While there's nothing wrong with this, I think it usually makes the role progression feel more natural if you have something there.
Right now the Horselord has the ability to dual-wield a Longbow and a Greatsword. Intended? Consider a 2-Handed restriction on the first power.
I fear returning weapons to the top of your deck could lead to stagnant gameplay, where you're using the same cards all the time. Be mindful of this as you test with him.
Good luck! Let me know how it goes!
@ feylund: I'm not 100% on it either, although playing this character it's not like you won't have an idea of what the roles are, and could/should be able to prepare accordingly.
@isaic16: last thing on building characters I saw, says: no more than 1 d12 or d4 (rulebook), no more than 5 skills with +9 total bonus (from this thread.) If there's another source for building characters that I should know about, feel free to point me in the right direction.
you make a good point about not having enough weapons, so i'll definitely change the card distribution for the next build.
well, ezren gets free explores for succeeding to acquire magic stuff, and ranzak gets free explores for acquiring boons. I think, however, to balance out i'll probably lower the number of blessings he gets and increase weapons.
nothing says you have to use both recharge powers on any given combat.
the reason neither increases the base powers are that in this case, the base powers do not lend themselves to being increased.
I see your point about dual wielding two-handed weapons. I will modify the initial power.
returning weapons to the top is in there because it lets you make sure that you often have the weapons you need to power your abilities.
@ feylund: I'm not 100% on it either, although playing this character it's not like you won't have an idea of what the roles are, and could/should be able to prepare accordingly.
@isaic16: last thing on building characters I saw, says: no more than 1 d12 or d4 (rulebook), no more than 5 skills with +9 total bonus (from this thread.) If there's another source for building characters that I should know about, feel free to point me in the right direction.
Check out this thread for more custom card guidance.
@ Greyhawke115: fair enough, although I would certainly argue that having 1d8 as your highest die balances out being a 44 point character, but I digress. I can drop one of his d8s to a d6 and see how it plays.
Grilka Longshadow (female half-orc ranger)
Skills:
STR 1d8 []+1 []+2 []+3 Melee +2
DEX 1d8 []+1 []+2 []+3
CON 1d6 []+1 []+2 Fortitude +2
INT 1d6 []+1 []+2
WIS 1d8 []+1 []+2 []+3 Divine +1, Survival +2
CHA 1d6 []+1 []+2
Cards: (Favored Card Type: Weapon)
Weapon 5 []6 []7
Spell 1 []2
Armor 2 []3
Item 3 []4 []5
Ally 3 []4 []5
Blessing 1 []2 []3
Powers: (Hand Size: 5 []6) Weapons [x] Light Armor [x] Heavy Armor []
*You may discard ([]or recharge) a melee weapon when making a combat check to add the non-attribute bonus die to you combat check, as if you were not playing a weapon. You may not discard or recharge a two-handed weapon in this manner.
*You may ignore start ([]or end) of turn effects created by a location.
Roles:
Tempest:
(Hand Size: 5 []6) Weapons [x] Light Armor [x] Heavy Armor []
*You may discard ([]or recharge) a melee weapon when making a combat check to add the non-attribute bonus die to you combat check, as if you were not playing a weapon. You may not discard or recharge a two-handed weapon in this manner.
*You may ignore start ([]or end) of turn effects created by a location.
*you may not play two-handed weapons.
[]If you succeed on a combat check, you may immediately explore again.
[]When you encounter a bane on your turn, if it is a monster, you may discard ([]or recharge) a weapon card to lower the difficulty of that bane by 1d6 []+1 []+2.
[]When you discard a weapon to play it, you may immediately draw a card.
[]You may add 2 []4 to your check to acquire a weapon.
Horselord:
(Hand Size: 5 []6 []7) Weapons [x] Light Armor [x] Heavy Armor []
*You may discard ([]or recharge) a melee weapon when making a combat check to add the non-attribute bonus die to you combat check, as if you were not playing a weapon. You may not discard or recharge a two-handed weapon in this manner.
*You may ignore start ([]or end) of turn effects created by a location.
[]When you play allies with the animal trait, you may recharge them instead of discarding them.
[]You may treat two-handed melee weapons as one-handed melee weapons for purposes of your abilities.
[]You may discard ([]or recharge) an ally with the animal trait to move from your location to a different location. You must still meet all requirements to move to or from a location.
[]You may reveal an ally with the animal trait to add 1d6 []+1 []+2 to your combat check.
Changes in bold.
@isaic16: last thing on building characters I saw, says: no more than 1 d12 or d4 (rulebook), no more than 5 skills with +9 total bonus (from this thread.) If there's another source for building characters that I should know about, feel free to point me in the right direction.
These aren't necessarily official rules, but more patterns that have emerged and are generally considered good rules of thumb. Note that characters with more than 6 skill points only have 1 of what I would consider the 'prime' skills (melee, ranged, arcane, divine) where you have 2. As I consider it more, though, since the skills are never attached to anything above a d8, you probably have some wiggle room. Also, having such flat stats may lead to the character being a bit boring in practice, so keep an eye on that (that may not actually be the case, but just be mindful of the possibility).
well, ezren gets free explores for succeeding to acquire magic stuff, and ranzak gets free explores for acquiring boons. I think, however, to balance out i'll probably lower the number of blessings he gets and increase weapons.
Gah, I always forget about Ranzak. He does throw off my calculations for the value of explore. That being said, I don't think he ever gets more than a 2/3 chance of a free explore when he gets a boon, and the odds of getting a boon vs a bane are probably close to 50/50. Maybe model the free explores closer to Ranzak's ability?
nothing says you have to use both recharge powers on any given combat.
True, but as a potential player of Grillka, I would probably look at that ability and say 'why should I spend a feat on that when I can already do the same thing.' That might be an incorrect assessment, but that's the risk.
the reason neither increases the base powers are that in this case, the base powers do not lend themselves to being increased.
Agreed, but it's something to consider if either of those powers isn't working (or if you need to add a third power)
returning weapons to the top is in there because it lets you make sure that you often have the weapons you need to power your abilities.
Yeah, and with all of his abilities to recharge, there's a fair chance he'll cycle through his weapons anyway, so it may not be an issue. Hopefully it works out.
@ Greyhawke115: fair enough, although I would certainly argue that having 1d8 as your highest die balances out being a 44 point character, but I digress. I can drop one of his d8s to a d6 and see how it plays.
There is precedent for a 44 point character in Sajan, so it may work as a whole. You just need to consider the complete character.
Sajan has 44 in dice, but only has 2 sub-skill bonuses and those are in acrobatics & fortitude. He foregoes any bonuses in the big hitters: melle, arcane, divine, and maybe ranged. Sajan also does not have any weapon/armor proficiencies and has the most limits of all the characters on the types of cards he can start with. Of course he also has really cool stuff in the minimum hand size, no skill less than d6, and some nifty powers that might be a little too good for someone who didn't have his limitations in other areas.
I am looking forward to the full article that Mike was mentioning in his post. I hope it addresses ways to balance the character as a whole. It would not elimnate the need for playtesting, but would certainly help in getting closer from the start.
@ Greyhawke115: fair enough, although I would certainly argue that having 1d8 as your highest die balances out being a 44 point character, but I digress. I can drop one of his d8s to a d6 and see how it plays.
There is precedent for a 44 point character in Sajan, so it may work as a whole. You just need to consider the complete character.
Sajan has 44 in dice, but only has 2 sub-skill bonuses and those are in acrobatics & fortitude. He foregoes any bonuses in the big hitters: melle, arcane, divine, and maybe ranged. Sajan also does not have any weapon/armor proficiencies and has the most limits of all the characters on the types of cards he can start with. Of course he also has really cool stuff in the minimum hand size, no skill less than d6, and some nifty powers that might be a little too good for someone who didn't have his limitations in other areas.
I am looking forward to the full article that Mike was mentioning in his post. I hope it addresses ways to balance the character as a whole. It would not elimnate the need for playtesting, but would certainly help in getting closer from the start.
Sajan only has 42 (d6+d10+d6+d6+d8+d6=42). Admittedly, I think that only enhances what you're saying, but just wanted to be accurate.
Sajan only has 42 (d6+d10+d6+d6+d8+d6=42). Admittedly, I think that only enhances what you're saying, but just wanted to be accurate.
Wow. I have Sajan listed as d8 in STR in my character compare spreadsheet for some time now. His higher scores were one of the things throwing off my attempts at an even comparison. Thanks for the correction! Maybe now I can make some better sense of previous calculations that weren't holding up.
Ya, I went ahead and made Grilka a 42 point character as well. I dropped her con to 1d6 (which given what I know about the end of ROTRL and my guesses about the drowning mechanic in S&S is kinda funny). About the only real change I could see is dropping divine as a starting skill and then changing cards to remove the base spell, but other than that I feel she's pretty solid. I do, of course, welcome suggestions or comments.
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Ya, I went ahead and made Grilka a 42 point character as well. I dropped her con to 1d6 (which given what I know about the end of ROTRL and my guesses about the drowning mechanic in S&S is kinda funny). About the only real change I could see is dropping divine as a starting skill and then changing cards to remove the base spell, but other than that I feel she's pretty solid. I do, of course, welcome suggestions or comments.
If you're having trouble figuring out what to change, it may be time to go ahead and run a playtest. However, I do want to make one thing clear: I strongly recommend starting with something you think is too weak and buffing it over starting with something too strong and nerfing it. The reason for this is that it can sometimes be very hard to tell if something that is fun but too strong is fun because it is strong, or fun in addition to being strong. It also can affect your opinion of a character if you think about what they used to be able to do, but now can't. My personal experience with this is one reason why I push hard on people about powers or abilities that raise a red flag.