It seems that the point of most deities is to offer powerful abilities or other assistance in exchange for accepting certain responsibilities and adhering to certain modes of behavior.
But some gods don't do this.
I'm just going to use Nethys as an example, although Boccob from Greyhawk (and come to think of it, most true neutral gods of magic) also work.
For Nethys, literally anything you do with magic is sanctioned, except perhaps rare corner cases like performing retributive strikes or otherwise destroying or disjoining powerful magic for no real gain. I suppose there is also the possibility that an adventuring party might run afoul of him if they destroy a lich on the verge of discovering magic to kill and reanimate an entire kingdom, but if they use magic to protect the kingdom or directly thwart his plans (say by researching protection from Corpse McGee's megadeath), it would cancel out.
To quote Inner Sea Gods: "[Nethys] teaches that the use of magic for its own sake is the highest calling of mortals... He does not care about the type of magic involved or the ends to which people turn it... He represents all magic, from the most benign healing spells to the vilest necromancy... Likewise, those who perceive new avenues of magic and pursue them gain his favor, regardless of the nature or purpose of the magic."
While all but one of the Nethys-themed items from that book suck donkey chode (the possible exception being quarterstaff of entwined serpents), his altar is pretty badass: +2 on every magic-related skill check and a +1 bonus to caster level for one specific spell, which you can change each day. And the Deific Obedience cost is only the time it takes to scribble on a piece of parchment, then cast a cantrip.
And the only real sacrifice, if you can call it that, is that you must devote time and effort to learn at least a little bit about magic, even if it's just taking a rank of Use Magic Device (though obviously spellcasters have much more pull).
The point I'm trying to make is that for anyone remotely interested in magic (which would be 13 of the 19 base classes), there is no meaningful sacrifice to worshipping him, and you still get neat powers. And there are no alignment restrictions whatsoever. So why worship any other god?
Sure, there are roleplay reasons, but since you don't have to forever spurn all other deities when you become a worshipper of one god (especially a true neutral god), you can also respect, say, Sarenrae, or Urgathoa, or Gorum, or Abadar. You can functionally be a worshipper of these deities and still gain the benefits of Nethys worship, without worrying about alignment hassles. All you have to do is keep gaining caster levels.
So....
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The big takeaway here, I think, is that a god that does not require a meaningful sacrifice is a poor focus for a religion. Hell, putting money in a mutual fund means you can't spend it until you pull it out and pay capital gains, so opening up an account at Prudential represents a bigger sacrifice than Nethys worship.
Unlike Boccob, Nethys at least has a bit of narrative depth due to his dipolar nature, so I'll give him that.
But in my opinion (and I'll freely admit that it's fine to ignore my opinion and play the game you want to play), magic is just a tool, rather than an end in itself. Few people want to become 20th-level wizards just to become 20th level wizards; they want to do something with that power, and that's where their devotion should lie. Fire magic goes to a nature deity or destruction deity or a god of the forge; necromancy goes to the god of death, illusion and enchantment to the god of trickery, transmutation to, well, plenty of different gods since it's such a catchall term, but you see my point. Even the idea of a god of knowledge (which is usually lumped together with the god of magic in most fantasy worlds) could be lumped together with the god of ultimate law, since knowledge of the world equals knowledge of the laws (societal and physical) that govern that world.
A god of trickery that doesn't care if you use it to free a kingdom or enslave it, or just rob it blind, isn't as compelling as splitting it up into good-natured shenanigans (as per Cayden Cailean) and deceitful cunning, split up in various guises between Asmodeus, Calistria, and Norgorber.
Anybody else agree, or disagree?
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As a non-divine caster, you're free to worship anyone you want. I haven't come across anything in Pathfinder that would lead me to think, unlike Faerun, that atheism is completely, universally, and totally frowned upon. Not believing in any god at all was rare beyond rare in Forgotten Realms, but I'm not so sure it is in Pathfinder.
Obviously this discussion changes completely if we bring divine player characters into the mix, especially clerics. At that point your power is given to you because of your worship and your connection to your god. The way I see it working is every being that thinks of/venerates/prays to a god increases that god's power by just a little bit. That god is then able to give a little of its power (in the form of spells, maybe channeling) to a cleric (a paragon of its followers). It makes sense to do this as that cleric will most likely serve to inspire more followers, who increase the gods popularity, which increases the gods power, etc ... a nice little circle.
If we're talking about pure game mechanics and nothing else, travel and luck domains are where it's at. Pathfinder just happens to have a god that includes both!
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I really don't get what you are trying to say.
Mechanically, there are a great many reasons to worship lots of different Gods. There is lots of interesting deity specific crunch out there.
From a flavour perspective there are even more reasons to worship different Gods.
Even if your character is sufficiently unusual that they're doing a purely rational cost/benefit analysis of which God gives the least inconvenient boons (which I think may be your point) the calculus is going to come out very differently for different characters.
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Every god gives boons which usefulness vary depending on who is worshiping them.
Pharasma's Boon gives you a +2 sacred/profane bonus to hit with daggers. When the ACG is released I am going to be making a Dagger specialist warpriest of Pharasma because of this. This is pretty worthless if you are using any other weapon though.
Faylana's gives a +4 bonus to Grapple checks. Guess who my Terori worships?
Some religion traits are nice too. Erastil has a trait that is Precise Shot for one attack per round. Pretty nice trait for archers.
Clerics care about domain access or alternate channeling.
And finally, some people care about flavor. What god you worship is a huge impact on roleplay. And even if you choose a deity for mechanical benefits, the roleplay of that worship will impact your character.
As for atheists, they are not shunned. There is even a nation where the worship of gods is outlawed.
However, atheism is a poor choice, as Pharasma feeds the souls of atheists to Groetus to keep him away from the boneyard.
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I get the non-relgious country that exist on Golarion. It's just from a practical standpoint it makes little sense. But this is an old argument I've had before. I shouldn't rehash it here.
Suffice it to say there are plenty of reason to worship the myriad of gods that exist. It's not always about mechanical benefit, or cost to yourself, or whatever.
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I believe Illmater from Forgotten Realms was broken.
You're overthinking it, really. This sort of stuff is basically just there so there's an excuse to have divine casters.
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Kelemvor was a bro, but suffered from Forgotten Realms staff realizing they'd dumped death into the domain of a guy who was against the undead. Meaning the classic 'death cleric' trope would have trouble on Toril.
So back came Bane and crew and Kelemvor just got to keep his psychopomp duties, which I thought was lame. I actually love Pharasma for being like him.
Deities do have non-mechanical benefits too though. Certain faiths are bigger in certain places and vice versa.
Imagine if you were in the Elder Scrolls world playing a cleric of Talos in the Sumerset Isles where its 'send you to the gulags' level of forbidden, versus doing the same thing in Skyrim where pretty much everybody loves the god.
You're overthinking it, really. This sort of stuff is basically just there so there's an excuse to have divine casters.Why do you hate divine casters so much? In every Thread related to divine casters that you have responded to. You say something negative about the mere existence of divine casters.
I find them utterly and completely unnecessary. There's no logical reason that arcane magic can't do everything divine magic does. Plus, simply put, I do not and cannot comprehend religion.
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I'm not saying that the mechanics are broken, I'm saying that the concept is somewhat lopsided. From a roleplay perspective, gods are there to push their agenda, which usually matches that of the character, who may model his actions on the god's precepts to a greater or lesser degree. This helps build strong characterization.
However the divine agenda may at times be at odds with that of the player or other members of the group. Thus, there are stakes and a conflict, the central elements to an engaging story.
When a god's agenda is too vague or broad, these aspects of storytelling fall by the wayside.
To put it bluntly, if it's not easy to think of a way the god could get pissed off at a player, its punching below its narrative weight, and in some cases basically becomes an invisible statstick.
To take Golarion as an example:
Abadar: Shoplift
Asmodeus: Perform a random act of kindness
Calistria: Turn the other cheek
Cayden Cailean: Bully a stranger
Desna: Become a highway robber
Erastil: Cheat on your spouse
Gorum: Sneak past, run from, or parley your way out of a fight you could easily win.
Gozreh: Start a forest fire
Iomedae: Use poison
Irori: Get fat
Lamashtu: Don't mutilate yourself or have a freaky baby
Norgorber: Snitch on a criminal
Pharasma: Create or aid an undead
Rovagug: Stop trying to destroy the world
Sarenrae: Lie
Shelyn: Vandalize artwork
Torag: Abandon your post
Urgathoa: Treat a disease
Zon-Kuthon: Take painkillers
With Nethys, the only people who would worship him are those with an interest in magic. And if you have an interest in magic, you're not going to outlaw magic or go on a witch burning spree or whatever. You might need to destroy an evil artifact, but Nethys may well be just as impressed by your disjunction as he was by the artifact's power.
There's no temptation involved. If you worship a good deity, there's plenty of temptation to be crooked or selfish. For an outright evil deity, there's always the temptation to try and step away from the dangers of service before you get killed. For nature deities, there's always a temptation to put yourself above nature rather than be a part of it. For neutral deities like Abadar or Gorum, one can always get tired of fighting or feel that due process is for suckers.
But Nethys is cool as long as you keep using your class abilities. In that regard, he seems much less interesting and less suited to telling compelling stories as other gods.
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Ilmater nothing. Kelemvor.
You got to summon a Death, like the one from the deck of many things, if you were a specialty priest of his.
Ilmater (pronounced "Ihl-MAY-ter" or "ill-may-ter") was an intermediate deity of the Faerûnian pantheon whose portfolio included endurance, martyrdom, perseverance, and suffering. He was the god of those who suffered, the oppressed, and the persecuted, who offered them relief and support, encouraged them to endure, and who encouraged others to help them, to take their burdens or take their places. He was called the Crying God, the Broken God, the Lord on the Rack, and the One Who Endures. To the peoples of the Great Glacier, he was known as Ayuruk.
One of his names was "The Broken God"
You could work to reduce the number of people who have access to magic. Or you could destroy scrolls, books, research and the like.
These things would work against the purposes of Nethys.
What's more interesting to consider for your campaign is why Nethys is so interested in increasing magic. What is his endgame?
Perhaps once enough magic has saturated the world it will be an unhinged reality, like the abyss, where will alone can change the rules.
Or perhaps Nethys is cultivating the prime plane like a battery. Once it has hit a critical amount of magic "stored within" he will discharge it all at once to power some ultimate spell or device.
Or maybe he wants to bring about a Utopia that is only possible once everyone has magic at their fingertips. The more magic users that exist, the more easy it is for everyone else to learn.
Working out the reasons behind a god's portfolio can reveal far more than simply looking at what they support and oppose. And it can be the source for stories and adventure to fuel endless campaigns.
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Actually, despite being the goddess of honesty, Sarenrae isn't quite as opposed to lying as one might expect. There are multiple "secret" groups having to do with her, who have to lie to keep their existence secret. One is Sarenrae worshipers in Taldor, where her worship is banned, and others are extreme militant cultists in Qadira who claim to follow her (but don't seem like very good worshipers to me). So I just don't think honesty is a very important part of her profile.
Personally, I always found it odd to have a goddess of honesty who isn't lawful.
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Nethys' deific hat is 'the mad guy who doesn't care' aspect of neutrality, (as opposed to the 'all must balance' aspect of neutrality). He's not even really about pushing his 'magic is awesome!' agenda - he just doesn't care if you do or don't (and only cares a little if you actively stop others). So yes, if you worship Nethys in a void then you can ignore him as much as he ignores you and be happy about it...
... but it's not the deity you need to really worry about as a mortal, it's the religion. The trade-off with Nethys is that his religion is crazy elitist when it comes to magic-use and, like their god, have no moral compass. This results in a situation like being a child in a family where the parents let the kids do anything they want - it sounds cool at first, but when your bigger, meaner, brother starts to make you eat worms (or something) you may find yorself wishing for a guardian with a bit more interest...
Follower of Nethys #1: 'Why, hello fellow member of the faithful!'
Follower of Nethys #2: [Casts Dominate Person on Follower #1] 'Hello personal slave.'
Follower of Nethys #1: 'But... I... [sigh]... yes my Master...'
... and all your fellow members of the faithful think this is an awesome situation...
Anyway, if you think Nethys is bad, don't be tempted to check out the Mythic rules for PCs granting divine spells to people...
I find them utterly and completely unnecessary. There's no logical reason that arcane magic can't do everything divine magic does. Plus, simply put, I do not and cannot comprehend religion.You're overthinking it, really. This sort of stuff is basically just there so there's an excuse to have divine casters.Why do you hate divine casters so much? In every Thread related to divine casters that you have responded to. You say something negative about the mere existence of divine casters.
Mechanically all magic can be from any one source. For the purpose of fulfilling fantasy stories it makes sense to have someone born with magic, someone that learns it, and someone that has it "gifted" to them. Since Gods are in many fantasy stories to include mythology having it makes sense.
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I don't think gods can be 'broken' as they are supposed to be very powerful, but I think I know what you guys mean. The benefits granted to you are rather nice however, there doesn't seem to be any real motive to actually worship a deity (even clerics, paladins and antipaladins probably only choose the one that seems appropriate rather than thinking about it). Besides, if the GM allows it, you could have a player (so long as they are not a class with the prerequisite about being at least two steps away from the alignment of the deity) that is a chaotic evil wizard of the evocation school who worships Sarenrae because she represents fire as well as the sun.
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Ilmater nothing. Kelemvor.
You got to summon a Death, like the one from the deck of many things, if you were a specialty priest of his.
Ilmater (pronounced "Ihl-MAY-ter" or "ill-may-ter") was an intermediate deity of the Faerûnian pantheon whose portfolio included endurance, martyrdom, perseverance, and suffering. He was the god of those who suffered, the oppressed, and the persecuted, who offered them relief and support, encouraged them to endure, and who encouraged others to help them, to take their burdens or take their places. He was called the Crying God, the Broken God, the Lord on the Rack, and the One Who Endures. To the peoples of the Great Glacier, he was known as Ayuruk.
One of his names was "The Broken God"
You do realize, that by 'broken' it refers to him actually being physically broken (shattered bones, ruptured organs, the works) rather than stating whether or not he was overly powerful.
I had a problem today trying to come up with a Good-aligned Cleric of a Trickster God (for an early entry Mystic Theurge I'll never get round to). Despite there being many instances of Neutral-to-Good Tricksters in folklore across the world (Anansi, Coyote & Raven from Native American tales, Reynard the Fox, Brer Rabbit, Eshu, Odin, Puck etc) just about all gods with the Trickery domain are in the Evil camp. There seem to be one or two minor deities (Skrymir, the Storm Giant god) but next to none who fit the traditional "good natured, wise trickster" archetype.
If Paizo can magic me up a Puck (Good, Trickery, Charm, Chaos) I'll be happy as a sandboy.
As someone mentioned, Nethys priests...are kind of unpleasant people, with lots of infighting and just general douchebag behavior. So that right there is going to be a negative for a lot of characters.
Plus Nethys is all about magic bereft of any morality. A wizard actively trying to stop a necromancer's research or destroy an evil tome of eldritch power is likely to go against his god's interests, and those are pretty common role-playing scenarios.
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I'm not saying that the mechanics are broken, I'm saying that the concept is somewhat lopsided. From a roleplay perspective, gods are there to push their agenda, which usually matches that of the character, who may model his actions on the god's precepts to a greater or lesser degree. This helps build strong characterization.
However the divine agenda may at times be at odds with that of the player or other members of the group. Thus, there are stakes and a conflict, the central elements to an engaging story.
When a god's agenda is too vague or broad, these aspects of storytelling fall by the wayside.To put it bluntly, if it's not easy to think of a way the god could get pissed off at a player, its punching below its narrative weight, and in some cases basically becomes an invisible statstick.
Neutral deities in particular are almost universally very solidly amoral. They may have principles, but said principles tend to be very loose and easy to work within. The more Neutral they are, the more true this is, with True Neutral deities being really easy to follow, pretty universally.
Nethys is not unique in this. If you aren't pursuing magical knowledge, Nethys doesn't really approve. That's at least as restrictive as Gozreh, who just requires you to pay vague respect to nature, or Pharasma, who just requires you to not help undead.
The point of deities isn't to be restrictive, it's to give the character a religious philosophy that fits their personality, and a patron who they think is a pretty good guy and get along with. And you can also always be an atheist, which is less restrictive than any of them, as are two of the Iconics (Ezren and Alahazra).
Also, for the record, a lot of your examples are frankly incorrect (Sarenrae is down with lying for the greater Good, Norgorber is cool with snitching if done for advantage, Urgathoa doesn't care if you save one individual for disease, etc.).
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It was a pun.You do realize, that by 'broken' it refers to him actually being physically broken (shattered bones, ruptured organs, the works) rather than stating whether or not he was overly powerful.Ilmater nothing. Kelemvor.
You got to summon a Death, like the one from the deck of many things, if you were a specialty priest of his.
Ilmater (pronounced "Ihl-MAY-ter" or "ill-may-ter") was an intermediate deity of the Faerûnian pantheon whose portfolio included endurance, martyrdom, perseverance, and suffering. He was the god of those who suffered, the oppressed, and the persecuted, who offered them relief and support, encouraged them to endure, and who encouraged others to help them, to take their burdens or take their places. He was called the Crying God, the Broken God, the Lord on the Rack, and the One Who Endures. To the peoples of the Great Glacier, he was known as Ayuruk.
One of his names was "The Broken God"
Oh, didn't know that. Thanks for telling me! :-)
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I had a problem today trying to come up with a Good-aligned Cleric of a Trickster God (for an early entry Mystic Theurge I'll never get round to). Despite there being many instances of Neutral-to-Good Tricksters in folklore across the world (Anansi, Coyote & Raven from Native American tales, Reynard the Fox, Brer Rabbit, Eshu, Odin, Puck etc) just about all gods with the Trickery domain are in the Evil camp. There seem to be one or two minor deities (Skrymir, the Storm Giant god) but next to none who fit the traditional "good natured, wise trickster" archetype.
If Paizo can magic me up a Puck (Good, Trickery, Charm, Chaos) I'll be happy as a sandboy.
Calistria has the trickery domain, and she's CN.
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As someone mentioned, Nethys priests...are kind of unpleasant people, with lots of infighting and just general douchebag behavior. So that right there is going to be a negative for a lot of characters.
Plus Nethys is all about magic bereft of any morality. A wizard actively trying to stop a necromancer's research or destroy an evil tome of eldritch power is likely to go against his god's interests, and those are pretty common role-playing scenarios.
Depending on the nature of the adventure, and the willingness of the GM to go along, a Nethyn cleric could easily find a reason for action.
For instance, the Winter Witches of Irrisen have a 'spellcasters rule, every one else drools' system that would seem, on the surface, to be a Nethyn paradise. And yet, it's a foreign system that overran and replaced whatever magical / arcane traditions existed before they arrived, and is pretty sharply defined around ice/cold/winter magic. And so, a cleric of Nethys could argue that he's not helping to overthrow a magic-dominated society and turning it over to the magic-less hoi-polloi, but allowing the myriad traditions that *used* to flourish in Irrisen a chance to return, and not be stifled by this 'dead end tradition' of winter magic that's only dominant in the area because of a huge magical endless winter, and clearly couldn't compete or be relevant without this advantage (in his opinion...). The cleric would get all 'free market of magic,' and say that this 'state sponsored magical monopoly' is stifling an entire nation, and has limited the free expression and development of whatever magical traditions existed before, making it not a 'paradise,' but a blasphemy, smothering magical innovation.
Similarly, if ye olde evil necromancer is murdering folk and turning them into undead, his 'use of magic' is eliminating an entire generation of potential spellcasters in the region, and even if some of those undead might be intelligent and retain whatever spellcasting ability they had, they might find themselves (depending on magical 'rules' on such matters, which may vary with undead type) frozen and unable to continue to advance in level. (That was the assumed case in previous editions, with references to liches choosing to put off lichdom until they had reached their desired level, because they would not be able to advance after that. Whether or not that's the current case, it's still true that a peasant turned into a zombie is never going to grow up to become an adept or awaken any latent sorcerous potential!)
There are NG worshippers of Sarenrae, goddess of *honesty* developing an entire prestige class about lying to one another and fighting one another. By comparison, finding a reason why a Nethyn cleric would oppose a magical foe (such as a Thassilonian resurgence) should be easy. (Sin-magic? Had it's day. Failed spectacularly. The death of Aroden should have been the final nail in the coffin of modern people idealizing and romanticizing those dead-enders. Every arcane researcher wasting time re-discovering old Azlanti/Thassilonian arcana is failing to break new ground and discover *new* magics.)
Similarly, if the GM is willing to roll with it, there's no reason why a cleric of Blackfingers, the Gray Master or the Reaper of Reputation couldn't run through Rise of the Runelords, regarding those nutjob Father Skinsaw-worshipping murder-cultists as 'an embarrassment to all right-thinking Norgorber-worshippers, really, acting like ogres.' A cleric of Rovagug could cheerily butcher other Rovagugites in Legacy of Fire, not even thinking that the others are 'getting it wrong,' but simply that if they were worthy of the Rough Beast's favor, they'd be killing him, instead of the other way around.
A cleric of Asmodeus helping the 'plucky rebels' in Council of Thieves? It would *hardly* be the first time a follower of the Prince of Lies betrayed rivals.
A cleric of Urgathoa opposing the plague-cultists in Curse of the Crimson Throne? Serve your hungers, be the first and most holy of commandments. 'Spread plagues?' That's not even on the list.
It's up to the creativity of the player, and the willingness of the GM to not arbitrarily say 'no.'
(Note, arbitrarily is key. If the GM has very good reasons to say 'no, I don't want you to play a CN cleric of Milani, goddess of anarchy, bloody revolutions and tearing governments down in my kingdom-building Kingmaker game all about building a peaceful and lawful and prosperous new community' that's a completely different kettle of fish.)
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As for gods and 'balance,' there are lots of factors. The combinations of Domains and favored weapons and bonus spells and summoning options are even more relevant than the obediences, IMO.
Nethys has some fun domains, but his favored weapon is the lowly quarterstaff, and his 'bonus' in Gods & Magic was *a restriction!*
Pharasma has some crappy domains, and the dagger as her favored weapon (and can't even use some of her domain spells!).
I imagine most of the stuff in Gods & Magic that wasn't reprinted in Inner Sea Gods has been quietly sent to the 'Paladins of Asmodeus' box, to never be mentioned again, like Monks who worship Irori having a non-lethal quivering palm option or being able to use wholeness of body on others, or illusionists who worship Sivanah being able to replicate conjuration (healing) spells with their shadow conjuration spells, or bards of Shelyn being able to use eagles splendor or charm animal (which seems odd, since bards in service to Cayden or Nethys retain some additional spells...), or druids who worship Erastil being able to use longbows.
I'll miss the Erastilian druids-with-longbows bit, particularly, but it certainly did make the choice of 'who my druid worships' a bit of a no-brainer. :(
(Erastil for LN or NG, Lamashtu, for the 'summon fiendish creatures with summon nature's ally' for CN or NE!)
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... For instance, the Winter Witches of Irrisen have a 'spellcasters rule, every one else drools' system that would seem, on the surface, to be a Nethyn paradise. And yet, it's a foreign system that overran and replaced whatever magical / arcane traditions existed before they arrived, and is pretty sharply defined around ice/cold/winter magic. And so, a cleric of Nethys could argue that he's not helping to overthrow a magic-dominated society and turning it over to the magic-less hoi-polloi, but allowing the myriad traditions that *used* to flourish in Irrisen a chance to return, and not be stifled by this 'dead end tradition' of winter magic that's only dominant in the area because of a huge magical endless winter, and clearly couldn't compete or be relevant without this advantage (in his opinion...). The cleric would get all 'free market of magic,' and say that this 'state sponsored magical monopoly' is stifling an entire nation, and has limited the free expression and development of whatever magical traditions existed before, making it not a 'paradise,' but a blasphemy, smothering magical innovation.
Similarly, if ye olde evil necromancer is murdering folk and turning them into undead, his 'use of magic' is eliminating an entire generation of potential spellcasters in the region, and even if some of those undead might be intelligent and retain whatever spellcasting ability they had,...
Nethys himself is very unlikely to care what his worshippers do or don't do: he doesn't care that you worship him... or even that you exist, for that matter (so a follower of Nethys is, basically, in real-world terms an obsessed stalker fanboy...) and his religion's ideas follow the same patterns. It's basically (magical) might-makes-right. So in the above situations they'd cheer you on if you had the magical power to wipe out Baba Yaga's kids, or pimp-slap a necromancer with spells, but they'd not consider either the Irrisen witches or the necromancer were doing anything wrong in the first place. They very specifically aren't about 'policing' magic use, the only thing that really gets on their bad side is actually destroying magic (like the Mana Wastes).
Nethys' religion, to most folks, is going to come across like academics in the real world: some people may have a polite interest in what they do, but to most people what they do is just none of their business or concern. Occassionally one may come up with something which has some practical application for the lives of ordinary folks (although that's usually after whatever breakthrough has been passed on to the engineers and sales people), or something which outrages even people outside the academic circle, but for the most part it's a case of interests not really meeting.
Or, put another way, the followers of Nethys are like gamers: within their own circle of interest the most important thing is 'gamer skills', but nobody else really cares.
This is both the upside and the downside of worshipping Nethys: on the one hand there's nobody moralising that you should be doing this, or not doing that. On the other hand, you're devoted to an organisation that most folks just don't care about (unless you start blowing stuff up) and within that organisation power goes to the biggest, most power-gamer, nerd in the group. They're not even into teaching people magic - oh, they may let you work for them as a minion if you show a flickering of magical talent, may let you watch them work, even teach you the odd trick or two if it happens to help make you a more useful lab assistant or something, but for the most part you're on your own. It's essentially a club for people who think the whole 'linear warriors, quadratic wizards' trope is the best thing ever.
So the balancing factor for Nethys is that you basically don't get any support network worth a damn, like you would with any other religion... plus you hang out with obsessive nerds in your spare time...
EDIT: It's like the DC comics character the Mad Hatter as presented in 'Secret Six'...
[Hatter and a couple of others are in the kitchen (Hatter's putting tiny hats on all the fruit) when a gorgeous naked woman walks in, takes some food, and walks out again...]
Deadshot: 'Okay, I don't know what you are, Hatter, but even a guy with his hatband eight sizes too tight'd pay attention when a woman like that floats by.'
Hatter: [yawn] 'Was she wearing a hat? Talk to me again when she's properly clad.'
... replace 'hats' with 'magic' and that pretty much sums up worshipping Nethys...