paizo.com Recent Posts in Crowdforging Threadspaizo.com Recent Posts in Crowdforging Threads2014-07-02T06:40:51Z2014-07-02T06:40:51ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Crowdforging ThreadsKemedohttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2r83g?Crowdforging-Threads#472014-07-04T03:31:50Z2014-07-03T12:42:46Z<p>Contructive Criticism is a trying to enhance the OUTCOME, while focusing in the WORK not the PERSON. Not to enhance the Idea itself.</p>
<p>If the idea is not good, even when improved (as the exemple of werewolves and vampires imho), a statement "I don't think this idea could be implemented" is a constructive criticism in the way that would enhance the OUTCOME by not being done at all.</p>
<p>Remember that opinions are always subjective, and disagreement are not always personal. But people in here (and all around internet) tend to forget this.</p>Contructive Criticism is a trying to enhance the OUTCOME, while focusing in the WORK not the PERSON. Not to enhance the Idea itself.
If the idea is not good, even when improved (as the exemple of werewolves and vampires imho), a statement "I don't think this idea could be implemented" is a constructive criticism in the way that would enhance the OUTCOME by not being done at all.
Remember that opinions are always subjective, and disagreement are not always personal. But people in here (and...Kemedo2014-07-03T12:42:46ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Crowdforging ThreadsAudoucethttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2r83g?Crowdforging-Threads#462014-07-03T12:05:35Z2014-07-03T12:05:35Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Audoucet wrote:</div><blockquote><p> I don't think that it is interesting to create a game in the game : I don't want some complex lunar cycle, factions entire specific game designs. </p>
<p>But I don't see why not having the possibility to apply archetypes to our characters, with major downsides, so it stays, in the end, a CURSE, and something not to be chosen lightly. </blockquote><div class="messageboard-quotee">Audoucet wrote:</div><blockquote> Werewolves aren't necessarily evil in nature, it doesn't force you to change your alignment, unlike vampires, which are automatically evil by nature. </blockquote><div class="messageboard-quotee">Audoucet wrote:</div><blockquote><p>Don't exaggerate. Yeah, good werewolves can exist, no, they are not a significant number. When there is a significant amount of alignment variety, they don't just write a specific alignment, they write "most XXX are of YY alignment", like for dwarves.</p>
<p>So, if they exist at all, they are a very tiny, insignificant minority.</p>
<p>And don't start me on the definition of "insignificant minority", otherwise I will talk about immigration and call you a socialist. :D </blockquote><p>Just for a little perspective, that is the entirety of my interventions, on your werewolves thread. I don't think that I was trying to have a fight with you, or discredit you or your idea.Audoucet wrote:I don't think that it is interesting to create a game in the game : I don't want some complex lunar cycle, factions entire specific game designs.
But I don't see why not having the possibility to apply archetypes to our characters, with major downsides, so it stays, in the end, a CURSE, and something not to be chosen lightly.
Audoucet wrote:Werewolves aren't necessarily evil in nature, it doesn't force you to change your alignment, unlike vampires, which are automatically...Audoucet2014-07-03T12:05:35ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Crowdforging ThreadsKemedohttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2r83g?Crowdforging-Threads#452014-07-03T11:47:52Z2014-07-03T11:47:52Z<p>But, we have Ideascale...</p>But, we have Ideascale...Kemedo2014-07-03T11:47:52ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Crowdforging ThreadsKobold Catgirlhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2r83g?Crowdforging-Threads#442014-07-03T04:48:34Z2014-07-03T03:31:33Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">DeciusBrutus wrote:</div><blockquote>A better idea would be to limit a given criticism to once per person; if you've said it before, don't say it again.</blockquote><p>And I'm gonna take Brutus's advice here and call it quits.DeciusBrutus wrote:A better idea would be to limit a given criticism to once per person; if you've said it before, don't say it again.
And I'm gonna take Brutus's advice here and call it quits.Kobold Catgirl2014-07-03T03:31:33ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Crowdforging ThreadsKobold Catgirlhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2r83g?Crowdforging-Threads#432014-07-03T03:30:17Z2014-07-03T03:30:17Z<p>The trouble is, your definition of constructive criticism is kind of questionable.</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Wikipedia wrote:</div><blockquote><p>The purpose of constructive criticism is to improve the outcome. In collaborative work, this kind of criticism is a valuable tool in raising and maintaining performance standards. Constructive criticism must always focus on the work rather than the person...
</p>
...Those who criticize need to value and invite criticism....
<br />
...I-message: stating explicitly that what you say is your view and your view only.</blockquote><p>Pointing out the flaws in an idea—what you define as "bashing"—is useful, constructive criticism. Not all con-crit is positive. Sometimes it is stating that, in your opinion, flaws make an idea unworkable.
<p>Our constructive criticism is applied to improve the outcome of the game. If we're polite and state our reasons clearly, you have no reason to complain.</p>The trouble is, your definition of constructive criticism is kind of questionable.
Wikipedia wrote:The purpose of constructive criticism is to improve the outcome. In collaborative work, this kind of criticism is a valuable tool in raising and maintaining performance standards. Constructive criticism must always focus on the work rather than the person...
...Those who criticize need to value and invite criticism....
...I-message: stating explicitly that what you say is your view and your...Kobold Catgirl2014-07-03T03:30:17ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Crowdforging ThreadsAndius the Afflicted (alias of Andius)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2r83g?Crowdforging-Threads#422014-07-03T03:25:12Z2014-07-03T03:25:12Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Kobold Cleaver wrote:</div><blockquote> By making a suggestion and posting it, you're opening it to constructive criticism.</blockquote><p>And as long as it's actually constructive I welcome it.Kobold Cleaver wrote:By making a suggestion and posting it, you're opening it to constructive criticism.
And as long as it's actually constructive I welcome it.Andius the Afflicted (alias of Andius)2014-07-03T03:25:12ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Crowdforging ThreadsKobold Catgirlhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2r83g?Crowdforging-Threads#412014-07-03T03:23:35Z2014-07-03T03:23:35Z<p>By making a suggestion and posting it, you're opening it to constructive criticism. Sorry, but you're gonna have to...what were the words you used?</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee"><a href="http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2r7ov&page=3?Scale-down-bow-attacks-please#105" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Andius</a> wrote:</div><blockquote>deal with it.</blockquote><p>By making a suggestion and posting it, you're opening it to constructive criticism. Sorry, but you're gonna have to...what were the words you used?
Andius wrote:deal with it.Kobold Catgirl2014-07-03T03:23:35ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Crowdforging ThreadsAndius the Afflicted (alias of Andius)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2r83g?Crowdforging-Threads#402014-07-03T03:13:50Z2014-07-03T03:13:50Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Crash_00 wrote:</div><blockquote>They should refine the idea to it's best possible form before proposing it to the community that is going to weigh in on it.</blockquote><p>Have you ever read a Goblinwork's blog? They're being paid to make this game. We are not. But apparently you favor holding us to a higher standard than them?
<p>Sometimes it's very helpful to have the input of other's and when a small group of very vocal naysayers crash your thread debating whether you should even be considering the idea that really detracts from your ability to get anything useful done.</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Crash_00 wrote:</div><blockquote>It's clearly a subtraction of the entire idea. It's far more respectful than letting them waste hours, days, or weeks on an idea that has no merit.</blockquote><p>That's not your determination to make. Making it isn't being helpful, it's being an a&•@~!%.Crash_00 wrote:They should refine the idea to it's best possible form before proposing it to the community that is going to weigh in on it.
Have you ever read a Goblinwork's blog? They're being paid to make this game. We are not. But apparently you favor holding us to a higher standard than them? Sometimes it's very helpful to have the input of other's and when a small group of very vocal naysayers crash your thread debating whether you should even be considering the idea that really...Andius the Afflicted (alias of Andius)2014-07-03T03:13:50ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Crowdforging ThreadsKobold Catgirlhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2r83g?Crowdforging-Threads#392014-07-03T03:13:16Z2014-07-03T03:13:16Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Andius wrote:</div><blockquote>This idea is relying on the common decency of others so I guess we'll see who has it and who doesn't. </blockquote><p>Ooh! Ooh! I know!
<p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLBMjHd5U9E" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">We don't! We don't have common decency, right?</a></p>Andius wrote:This idea is relying on the common decency of others so I guess we'll see who has it and who doesn't.
Ooh! Ooh! I know! We don't! We don't have common decency, right?Kobold Catgirl2014-07-03T03:13:16ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Crowdforging ThreadsCrash_00https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2r83g?Crowdforging-Threads#382014-07-03T03:05:13Z2014-07-03T03:05:13Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Andius the Afflicted wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Kobold Cleaver wrote:</div><blockquote> I'm hearing a lot of support for "constructive", but a lot of silence about "criticism".</blockquote><p>As I've stated. Proposed changes, tweaks, additions, or subtractions from the idea are all welcome. If someone creates a thread with the intent of enhancing an idea. "I don't like this idea, it shouldn't be in game." Gives them nothing they can work with though.
<p>If their intent is to determine community support for the idea then that's one thing. If their intent is to refine the idea to it's best possible form before the community weighs in on whether or not they want it in game, then those kinds of posts have no place. Giving them is just a disrespectful as starting a fight in another group's recruitment thread.</p>
<p>This idea is relying on the common decency of others so I guess we'll see who has it and who doesn't. </blockquote><p>They should refine the idea to it's best possible form before proposing it to the community that is going to weigh in on it.
<p>And "It shouldn't be in the game," actually falls under what you've said is welcome. It's clearly a subtraction of the entire idea. It's far more respectful than letting them waste hours, days, or weeks on an idea that has no merit.</p>
<p>The problem here is that your view of what is constructive criticism varies greatly from what most consider to be constructive criticism.</p>Andius the Afflicted wrote:Kobold Cleaver wrote: I'm hearing a lot of support for "constructive", but a lot of silence about "criticism".
As I've stated. Proposed changes, tweaks, additions, or subtractions from the idea are all welcome. If someone creates a thread with the intent of enhancing an idea. "I don't like this idea, it shouldn't be in game." Gives them nothing they can work with though. If their intent is to determine community support for the idea then that's one thing. If their...Crash_002014-07-03T03:05:13ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Crowdforging ThreadsAndius the Afflicted (alias of Andius)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2r83g?Crowdforging-Threads#372014-07-03T02:43:57Z2014-07-03T02:43:57Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Kobold Cleaver wrote:</div><blockquote> I'm hearing a lot of support for "constructive", but a lot of silence about "criticism".</blockquote><p>As I've stated. Proposed changes, tweaks, additions, or subtractions from the idea are all welcome. If someone creates a thread with the intent of enhancing an idea. "I don't like this idea, it shouldn't be in game." Gives them nothing they can work with though.
<p>If their intent is to determine community support for the idea then that's one thing. If their intent is to refine the idea to it's best possible form before the community weighs in on whether or not they want it in game, then those kinds of posts have no place. Giving them is just a disrespectful as starting a fight in another group's recruitment thread.</p>
<p>This idea is relying on the common decency of others so I guess we'll see who has it and who doesn't.</p>Kobold Cleaver wrote:I'm hearing a lot of support for "constructive", but a lot of silence about "criticism".
As I've stated. Proposed changes, tweaks, additions, or subtractions from the idea are all welcome. If someone creates a thread with the intent of enhancing an idea. "I don't like this idea, it shouldn't be in game." Gives them nothing they can work with though. If their intent is to determine community support for the idea then that's one thing. If their intent is to refine the idea...Andius the Afflicted (alias of Andius)2014-07-03T02:43:57ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Crowdforging ThreadsKobold Catgirlhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2r83g?Crowdforging-Threads#362014-07-03T02:37:49Z2014-07-03T02:37:49Z<p>I'm hearing a lot of support for "constructive", but a lot of silence about "criticism". They go hand-in-hand. Pointing out problems is how Crowdforging works.</p>
<p>As for the threat to start targeting companies' threads for their "lies", I think everyone but you recognizes the absurdity in the comparison.</p>I'm hearing a lot of support for "constructive", but a lot of silence about "criticism". They go hand-in-hand. Pointing out problems is how Crowdforging works.
As for the threat to start targeting companies' threads for their "lies", I think everyone but you recognizes the absurdity in the comparison.Kobold Catgirl2014-07-03T02:37:49ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Crowdforging ThreadsAndius the Afflicted (alias of Andius)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2r83g?Crowdforging-Threads#352014-07-03T02:32:20Z2014-07-03T02:32:20Z<p>I've spelled out my reason's why I think they should have to offer some form of constructive criticism if they reply.</p>
<p>I think the more major rule is people should respect the OP's intent for a thread. I mean I could go into the TEO/TSV threads and directely address everything being posted there that I consider to be dishonest or decieving to your potential recruits. Every time you talk about having experienced PvPers, being in a good location, etc.</p>
<p>But I don't because the OP's intent is to recruit, not debate policy. Which is why I take those kind of discussions to threads I perceive as policy debate threads.</p>
<p>Crowdforging threads are intended for people who want to run an idea through the constructive criticism of their peers. Not defend their right to have the idea, or fight over whether it's a worthwhile use of their time to try to improve upon it.</p>
<p>So we can be civil and respect the OP's intent, or I can remove the gloves and stop respecting your threads because there is no Paizo rule stating I can't call you on your crap in a recruitment thread.</p>
<p>You don't agree with me not liking people giving non-constructive criticism in my threads meant to enhance ideas, I don't like you spreading falsehoods and using old catch phrases I made for your group that no longer apply in your recruitment threads. Let's agree to disagree and stay out of eachother's threads if we can't follow eachother's rules.</p>I've spelled out my reason's why I think they should have to offer some form of constructive criticism if they reply.
I think the more major rule is people should respect the OP's intent for a thread. I mean I could go into the TEO/TSV threads and directely address everything being posted there that I consider to be dishonest or decieving to your potential recruits. Every time you talk about having experienced PvPers, being in a good location, etc.
But I don't because the OP's intent is to...Andius the Afflicted (alias of Andius)2014-07-03T02:32:20ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Crowdforging ThreadsTEO Alexander Damocles (alias of Alexander_Damocles)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2r83g?Crowdforging-Threads#342014-07-03T02:22:01Z2014-07-03T02:22:01Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Andius the Afflicted wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Dario wrote:</div><blockquote>You're right, this clearly isn't crowdforging. It's an attempt at an edict. </blockquote><p>It's something those desiring can do to try to ask the community to use their threads to have more productive discussions.
<p>Nobody has to do it. I simply figured a community that prides itself on trying to create a "positive atmosphere" would have the restraint to not come in and bash on other people's ideas without giving useful feedback if the original poster asked them not to.</p>
<p>Just kind of an unwritten rule like not using other people's recruitment topics to promote your own company.</p>
<p>I forgot that some groups definitions of "positive interaction" is "whatever is beneficial for our groups" and actually has nothing to do with what's good for the community as a whole.</p>
<p>How disappointing. </blockquote><p>In no way is that what is being meant, and I sincerely hope you have the honesty to admit it.
<p>I have agreed with some of your points before. I have also disagreed with some of your points before. I will continue to honestly evaluate each of your ideas, regardless of our past interactions.</p>
<p>If they are bad, I will say so. This thread comes across as saying "No one is allowed to disagree with a crowdforging thread proposal." The community is saying no •and providing reasons why•. It would appear that you are now attempting to rebrand these points as a personal attack, when they are instead a critique of your idea.</p>Andius the Afflicted wrote:Dario wrote:You're right, this clearly isn't crowdforging. It's an attempt at an edict.
It's something those desiring can do to try to ask the community to use their threads to have more productive discussions. Nobody has to do it. I simply figured a community that prides itself on trying to create a "positive atmosphere" would have the restraint to not come in and bash on other people's ideas without giving useful feedback if the original poster asked them not
...TEO Alexander Damocles (alias of Alexander_Damocles)2014-07-03T02:22:01ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Crowdforging ThreadsKobold Catgirlhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2r83g?Crowdforging-Threads#332014-07-03T02:20:09Z2014-07-03T02:20:09Z<p>Alright, I think I get your position.</p>
<p>With that in mind, from now on, I'll expect people who don't want "bashing" to place, in their first post, this simple message:</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote>If you are fully against my idea, you are not welcome on this thread. Make your own thread, and offer your criticisms there. Have a nice day!</blockquote><p>Alright, I think I get your position.
With that in mind, from now on, I'll expect people who don't want "bashing" to place, in their first post, this simple message:
Quote:If you are fully against my idea, you are not welcome on this thread. Make your own thread, and offer your criticisms there. Have a nice day!Kobold Catgirl2014-07-03T02:20:09ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Crowdforging ThreadsAndius the Afflicted (alias of Andius)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2r83g?Crowdforging-Threads#322014-07-03T02:12:20Z2014-07-03T02:12:20Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Dario wrote:</div><blockquote>You're right, this clearly isn't crowdforging. It's an attempt at an edict. </blockquote><p>It's something those desiring can do to try to ask the community to use their threads to have more productive discussions.
<p>Nobody has to do it. I simply figured a community that prides itself on trying to create a "positive atmosphere" would have the restraint to not come in and bash on other people's ideas without giving useful feedback if the original poster asked them not to.</p>
<p>Just kind of an unwritten rule like not using other people's recruitment topics to promote your own company.</p>
<p>I forgot that some groups definitions of "positive interaction" is "whatever is beneficial for our groups" and actually has nothing to do with what's good for the community as a whole.</p>
<p>How disappointing.</p>Dario wrote:You're right, this clearly isn't crowdforging. It's an attempt at an edict.
It's something those desiring can do to try to ask the community to use their threads to have more productive discussions. Nobody has to do it. I simply figured a community that prides itself on trying to create a "positive atmosphere" would have the restraint to not come in and bash on other people's ideas without giving useful feedback if the original poster asked them not to.
Just kind of an unwritten...Andius the Afflicted (alias of Andius)2014-07-03T02:12:20ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Crowdforging ThreadsKobold Catgirlhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2r83g?Crowdforging-Threads#312014-07-03T02:12:02Z2014-07-03T02:12:02Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">The Interesting Blog You Linked wrote:</div><blockquote>(I should mention that while I was composing my response, he pulled the ultimate amateur move, and sent me an e-mail saying, "If you haven't read it yet, don't! I have a new draft. Read this!" In other words, "The draft I told you was ready for professional input, wasn't actually.")</blockquote><p>By the way, if you haven't read that post I wrote, <i>don't</i>! I made a new edit. Read that!The Interesting Blog You Linked wrote:(I should mention that while I was composing my response, he pulled the ultimate amateur move, and sent me an e-mail saying, "If you haven't read it yet, don't! I have a new draft. Read this!" In other words, "The draft I told you was ready for professional input, wasn't actually.")
By the way, if you haven't read that post I wrote, don't! I made a new edit. Read that!Kobold Catgirl2014-07-03T02:12:02ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Crowdforging ThreadsKobold Catgirlhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2r83g?Crowdforging-Threads#302014-07-03T02:04:36Z2014-07-03T02:04:36Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Crash_00 wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Kobold Cleaver wrote:</div><blockquote> Yeah, but I believe it's better to start being harsh once the person's <i>good</i>. Funny as it sounds, that's when they're probably into writing enough that they can take some suitably blunt critique. </blockquote><p>It may sound mean, but what that leads to is someone who isn't into writing enough to pursue it wasting theirs, and yours or someone else's time and then getting mad at you when you finally are truthful.
<p>When I teach, I'm very blunt at this point. I don't pull punches.</p>
<p>I didn't used to be that way, but I noticed a trend (and after talking to others that teach creative writing, I realized I"m not the only one). If you're not harsh, the person doesn't think it's that bad. They think, if it was really that bad, he would have been harsher.</p>
<p>This is bad for both the people that are good writers and the people that are bad writers. The good writers don't get pushed enough or prepared for the real world of writing. The bad writers waste their time doing something that they will never pursue after the first real hurdle of criticism. </p>
<p>I would rather have a person get mad over me being honest and truthful, and not waste everyone's time (which gives more time to focus on those actually interested in pursuing the topic). </p>
<p>Here's a piece that sums up the general feeling of most writer's in the industry and what happens when you read other people's work: <a href="http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2009/09/i_will_not_read.php" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">It's got some foul language, so be warned</a> </blockquote><p>I do a lot of reviews myself (and I've received quite a few) and I've found the "bad" writers aren't that different from "good" writers who haven't gotten enough reviews yet. "Good" writers <b>can</b> also be driven away from the hobby if disheartened by excessive harshness early on.
<p>Eh, I guess we just disagree. It's an old debate and we aren't gonna settle it today. :P</p>
<p>EDIT: By the way, I'll concede that I'm not a professional teacher and you know more about this stuff than I do. The last sentence of my argument pretty much sums up my stance: This is an old debate that's being waged by a lot of people, and I think a lot of it just comes down to style and opinion.</p>Crash_00 wrote:Kobold Cleaver wrote: Yeah, but I believe it's better to start being harsh once the person's good. Funny as it sounds, that's when they're probably into writing enough that they can take some suitably blunt critique.
It may sound mean, but what that leads to is someone who isn't into writing enough to pursue it wasting theirs, and yours or someone else's time and then getting mad at you when you finally are truthful. When I teach, I'm very blunt at this point. I don't pull...Kobold Catgirl2014-07-03T02:04:36ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Crowdforging ThreadsDariohttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2r83g?Crowdforging-Threads#292014-07-03T02:04:21Z2014-07-03T02:04:21Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Andius the Afflicted wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Kobold Cleaver wrote:</div><blockquote><p>Meanwhile, he's attacking Audocet's motives, bringing up his group, and accusing him of trolling.</p>
<p>Not cool, Andius. </blockquote>You see a "Crowdforging Thread:" at the beginning of this topic name? </blockquote><p>You're right, this clearly isn't crowdforging. It's an attempt at an edict.Andius the Afflicted wrote:Kobold Cleaver wrote:Meanwhile, he's attacking Audocet's motives, bringing up his group, and accusing him of trolling.
Not cool, Andius.
You see a "Crowdforging Thread:" at the beginning of this topic name? You're right, this clearly isn't crowdforging. It's an attempt at an edict.Dario2014-07-03T02:04:21ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Crowdforging ThreadsCrash_00https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2r83g?Crowdforging-Threads#282014-07-03T02:11:08Z2014-07-03T01:55:22Z<p><i>Crowdforging Thread</i>s</p>
<p>Ah, there is no colon. Here I was wondering what all this had to do with the idea of the letter s. Shucks, that's sneaky.</p>Crowdforging Threads
Ah, there is no colon. Here I was wondering what all this had to do with the idea of the letter s. Shucks, that's sneaky.Crash_002014-07-03T01:55:22ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Crowdforging ThreadsAndius the Afflicted (alias of Andius)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2r83g?Crowdforging-Threads#272014-07-03T01:50:08Z2014-07-03T01:50:08Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Kobold Cleaver wrote:</div><blockquote><p>Meanwhile, he's attacking Audocet's motives, bringing up his group, and accusing him of trolling.</p>
<p>Not cool, Andius. </blockquote><p>You see a "Crowdforging Thread:" at the beginning of this topic name?Kobold Cleaver wrote:Meanwhile, he's attacking Audocet's motives, bringing up his group, and accusing him of trolling.
Not cool, Andius.
You see a "Crowdforging Thread:" at the beginning of this topic name?Andius the Afflicted (alias of Andius)2014-07-03T01:50:08ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Crowdforging ThreadsCrash_00https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2r83g?Crowdforging-Threads#262014-07-03T01:33:24Z2014-07-03T01:33:24Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Kobold Cleaver wrote:</div><blockquote> Yeah, but I believe it's better to start being harsh once the person's <i>good</i>. Funny as it sounds, that's when they're probably into writing enough that they can take some suitably blunt critique. </blockquote><p>It may sound mean, but what that leads to is someone who isn't into writing enough to pursue it wasting theirs, and yours or someone else's time and then getting mad at you when you finally are truthful.
<p>When I teach, I'm very blunt at this point. I don't pull punches.</p>
<p>I didn't used to be that way, but I noticed a trend (and after talking to others that teach creative writing, I realized I"m not the only one). If you're not harsh, the person doesn't think it's that bad. They think, if it was really that bad, he would have been harsher.</p>
<p>This is bad for both the people that are good writers and the people that are bad writers. The good writers don't get pushed enough or prepared for the real world of writing. The bad writers waste their time doing something that they will never pursue after the first real hurdle of criticism. </p>
<p>I would rather have a person get mad over me being honest and truthful, and not waste everyone's time (which gives more time to focus on those actually interested in pursuing the topic). </p>
<p>Here's a piece that sums up the general feeling of most writer's in the industry and what happens when you read other people's work: <a href="http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2009/09/i_will_not_read.php" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">It's got some foul language, so be warned</a></p>Kobold Cleaver wrote:Yeah, but I believe it's better to start being harsh once the person's good. Funny as it sounds, that's when they're probably into writing enough that they can take some suitably blunt critique.
It may sound mean, but what that leads to is someone who isn't into writing enough to pursue it wasting theirs, and yours or someone else's time and then getting mad at you when you finally are truthful. When I teach, I'm very blunt at this point. I don't pull punches.
I didn't...Crash_002014-07-03T01:33:24ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Crowdforging ThreadsCaldeathe Baequianniahttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2r83g?Crowdforging-Threads#252014-07-03T01:12:29Z2014-07-03T01:12:29Z<p>Here's my contribution:</p>
<p>Before you reply to a suggestion, divorce it from the person who posted it and imagine it was posted by your best friend. Now reply.</p>Here's my contribution:
Before you reply to a suggestion, divorce it from the person who posted it and imagine it was posted by your best friend. Now reply.Caldeathe Baequiannia2014-07-03T01:12:29ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Crowdforging ThreadsKobold Catgirlhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2r83g?Crowdforging-Threads#242014-07-03T01:04:51Z2014-07-03T01:04:51Z<p>Yeah, but I believe it's better to start being harsh once the person's <i>good</i>. Funny as it sounds, that's when they're probably into writing enough that they can take some suitably blunt critique.</p>Yeah, but I believe it's better to start being harsh once the person's good. Funny as it sounds, that's when they're probably into writing enough that they can take some suitably blunt critique.Kobold Catgirl2014-07-03T01:04:51ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Online: Crowdforging ThreadsCrash_00https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2r83g?Crowdforging-Threads#232014-07-03T01:00:23Z2014-07-03T01:00:23Z<p>Usually. It's not near as crushing as what you'll go through later on in your career. If you think that's harsh, you should hear the result of the average pitch meeting. I really mean it when I say they don't have the chops for the job if they can't handle that.</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">avari3 wrote:</div><blockquote> <i>Proper Civility in Constructive Debate</i>, By Andius. I hear the audio cassette is a hoot. </blockquote><p>Here I thought it was titled, <i>Andius's Seven Ugly Things You Can Never Say in a Crowdforging Thread</i>.Usually. It's not near as crushing as what you'll go through later on in your career. If you think that's harsh, you should hear the result of the average pitch meeting. I really mean it when I say they don't have the chops for the job if they can't handle that.
avari3 wrote:Proper Civility in Constructive Debate, By Andius. I hear the audio cassette is a hoot.
Here I thought it was titled, Andius's Seven Ugly Things You Can Never Say in a Crowdforging Thread.Crash_002014-07-03T01:00:23Z