Capturing an NPC


Rules Questions


One of our party has successfully tripped an attacker and I want to capture him. If I understand this, we have to grapple, pin, and tie him up.

If he is prone, tripped, does he still threaten nearby squares and do I provoke an attack of opportunity by attempting to grapple?

If I succeed in grappling, can I immediately roll again to see if he's pinned or does that take another round?

If it takes another round, can a -third- ally pin him while I have him grappled?

Do grappled and prone penalties stack to a -6 on CMD when attempting to pin him?

Once pinned, does it take yet another CMB to tie him up or do we just do it? What would the penalties be on an NPC prone, grappled by one character and pinned by another?

FYI, the only reason we can get away with all this nonsense is that the idiot attacked three tanks with a dagger. :)


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If he is prone, tripped, does he still threaten nearby squares and do I provoke an attack of opportunity by attempting to grapple?

A prone attacker has a –4 penalty on melee attack rolls and cannot use a ranged weapon (except for a crossbow).

So yes can still take an AoO, but he takes a -4 penalty on that attack. He also takes a -4 penalty on his AC.

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If I succeed in grappling, can I immediately roll again to see if he's pinned or does that take another round?

That will take another round.

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Do grappled and prone penalties stack to a -6 on CMD when attempting to pin him?

The combat maneuver penalty for being grappled does not count towards any grappling checks (and pin is explicitly stated to be a more severe form of grapple, so any rule that applies to grapples also applies to pins) so you only get the -4 from.

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Once pinned, does it take yet another CMB to tie him up or do we just do it? What would the penalties be on an NPC prone, grappled by one character and pinned by another?

No, you only get the penalties for prone. "Tie Up" works like "pin", which works like "grapple", and the combat maneuver penalties for grapple do not apply to grapples.


daimaru wrote:
One of our party has successfully tripped an attacker and I want to capture him. If I understand this, we have to grapple, pin, and tie him up.

Correct, though beating him until he surrenders is also an option, depending on the GM.

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If he is prone, tripped, does he still threaten nearby squares and do I provoke an attack of opportunity by attempting to grapple?

Yes. The prone condition gives him a -4 penalty on his attack rolls, but does not stop him from threatening squares or taking attacks of opportunity.

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If I succeed in grappling, can I immediately roll again to see if he's pinned or does that take another round?

This depends on your character. Assuming that you have no grappling feats, then no. You spend a standard action to grapple him, then wait until your next turn and spend another standard action to maintain the grapple. If you successfully maintain the grapple, one option you can take is to pin him. Once he is pinned, you must take another standard action (and thus, wait another round) to tie him up.

Note that characters who invest feats in grappling become much quicker at it. Greater Grapple allows you to use move actions to maintain, which would allow you to grapple as a standard, then maintain and pin as a move on the same round. Rapid Grappler allows you a third grapple check as a swift, so with enough investment, you could grapple, pin, and tie up an enemy all in one round.

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If it takes another round, can a -third- ally pin him while I have him grappled?

No. Only one creature can make the checks in a grapple, though others can use the Aid Another action to grant you a +2 bonus on your checks.

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Do grappled and prone penalties stack to a -6 on CMD when attempting to pin him?

Assuming that by the grappled penalty you mean the -4 to Dexterity, yes.

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Once pinned, does it take yet another CMB to tie him up or do we just do it? What would the penalties be on an NPC prone, grappled by one character and pinned by another?

Yes, tying up a pinned character takes another maintain-grapple check. Prone would give a -4 penalty to AC, while pinned would give an additional -4 as well as denying the enemy's Dexterity bonus. Pinned does not stack with grappled, being the upgraded version of that condition.


So if I understand this all, it being his turn Caragorn attempts to grapple.

The idiot takes an AoO on Caragorn with a -4 on his attack roll for being prone.

Caragorn rolls on the grapple with +4 CMB (his strength bonus) and a -4 on the idiot's CMD for being prone. Caragorn yells for his friends to help him.

Assuming the grapple was successful....

Kano's turn next, he steps up and rolls for Aid Another. D20 and his strength bonus against an AC 10.

Idiot's turn next; he either tries to stab me, -2 for being grappled and -4 for being prone or tries to escape the grapple.

Assuming he doesn't escape, Shurelia can step up and attempt Aid Another.

Caragorn attempts to maintain the grapple. +5 to his CMB and +2 for each ally that was successful in aiding him. -4 to the idiot's CMD for still being prone. If successful, Caragorn pins him without having to make another roll.

Kano rolls Aid Another again.

Idiot tries to break loose or stab me. Same penalties.

Shurelia rolls Aid Another.

Caragorn attempts to maintain the grapple, same penalties and bonuses. If successful Caragorn simply ties him up.

Grand Lodge

Remeber that Caragorn's target gets a bonus to his CMD versus Caragorn's grapple attempt equal to the damage he did if he hit Caragorn on the AoO.

And that his AoO doesn't, necessarily, have to be an attack for damage. He could also try to trip, disarm or sunder as an AoO, although that might provoke an AoO from Caragorn...

My advice, in a situation like that, is to, instead, take the -4 penalty to atack, which is a wash with the bonus for attacking a prone target, with a non-lethal attack. Knock him out, and he is easy to tie up after that, and smelling salts can let you wake him up without giving him any hit points back...

Or use an attack with a net, which is against touch AC, so even the -4 penalty against a prone target with a ranged attack is still fairly likely to hit. Nets apply the entangled condition, which is similar to the grappled condition...

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