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How many FAQs do you discuss at one time? Like to you have 2-3 larger/harder FAQs being discussed and 1-2 easier/simpler FAQs discussed. Or is it more like you have 1 FAQ being discussed, and maybe jump to a small one if you can't get one out in a week.

Paizo Employee Designer

Chess Pwn wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Thomas LeBlanc wrote:
Why not drop a controversial FAQ the first day of PaizoCon and let the whiners get it out of their systems for a few days before responding?
That's not how we roll, at least not by choice. We'd rather be around, not unable to respond.
Yeah, I remember the last time that happened, when the ACG was released. Having people out of the office during that time seemed very negative impact on the company.

It was actually the ARG errata. We weren't told about it and so kind of were all blindsided when we found out about it in Indianapolis (a friend who doesn't work at the company chatted Linda just before the VC dinner, and she told me and John, and it spread from there).

Paizo Employee Designer

Chess Pwn wrote:
How many FAQs do you discuss at one time? Like to you have 2-3 larger/harder FAQs being discussed and 1-2 easier/simpler FAQs discussed. Or is it more like you have 1 FAQ being discussed, and maybe jump to a small one if you can't get one out in a week.

Generally we have a few harder FAQs that have been tabled due to not making it through in one FAQ session, whereas FAQs that make it through in one FAQ session are much easier to release. It also helps when my pre-discussion poll, where I see what people think with just hearing the question and not biasing with what the other designers think, is unanimous, though at least once, we had that happen but then when I presented the opposing argument from the messageboard thread, it was persuasive enough to table that FAQ.

Sovereign Court

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The minutes from those meetings would be fun to read.

Paizo Employee Designer

KingOfAnything wrote:
The minutes from those meetings would be fun to read.

Minutes would slow us down. ;)


Recording?


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Worked for Nixon!... wait a minute...


Mark Seifter wrote:
Gisher wrote:
Thanks for explaining that! I can see now why I was confused by the terminology. Sadly it seems that my Esoteric Magus won't be able to qualify for Nightmare Fist then since Deeper Darkness and Shield of Darkness aren't on the Magus spell list. I had planned on using the Tiefling SLA or the Darkness spell to qualify.
It's honestly not the least bit your fault; it's our fault for being confusing and using that term to mean two things.

It's not a problem. I understand that this system develops organically, and that sometimes means some issues with older terminology. I really do appreciate your clarifications.

Shadow Lodge

Mark Seifter wrote:
Let's throw in hypothetical classes with three domains too while we're at it. I would run the application the same--match blessings one-for-one with domains where possible, then pick the rest as you choose. If you had one domain, then gained two blessings (one matching the domain and one of your choice) and later somehow gained a second domain, it'd have to match the second blessing. And so on. It seems like the most reasonable way to adjudicate this.

Cool beans, thanks.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Mark Seifter wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:
How many FAQs do you discuss at one time? Like to you have 2-3 larger/harder FAQs being discussed and 1-2 easier/simpler FAQs discussed. Or is it more like you have 1 FAQ being discussed, and maybe jump to a small one if you can't get one out in a week.
Generally we have a few harder FAQs that have been tabled due to not making it through in one FAQ session, whereas FAQs that make it through in one FAQ session are much easier to release. It also helps when my pre-discussion poll, where I see what people think with just hearing the question and not biasing with what the other designers think, is unanimous, though at least once, we had that happen but then when I presented the opposing argument from the messageboard thread, it was persuasive enough to table that FAQ.

Can you share an example? (I understand this may not be possible for lots of reasons.)


Mark. How did you decide on your picture for the forums?

Paizo Employee Designer

Gisher wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Gisher wrote:
Thanks for explaining that! I can see now why I was confused by the terminology. Sadly it seems that my Esoteric Magus won't be able to qualify for Nightmare Fist then since Deeper Darkness and Shield of Darkness aren't on the Magus spell list. I had planned on using the Tiefling SLA or the Darkness spell to qualify.
It's honestly not the least bit your fault; it's our fault for being confusing and using that term to mean two things.
It's not a problem. I understand that this system develops organically, and that sometimes means some issues with older terminology. I really do appreciate your clarifications.

Glad to help!

Paizo Employee Designer

DM Beckett wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Let's throw in hypothetical classes with three domains too while we're at it. I would run the application the same--match blessings one-for-one with domains where possible, then pick the rest as you choose. If you had one domain, then gained two blessings (one matching the domain and one of your choice) and later somehow gained a second domain, it'd have to match the second blessing. And so on. It seems like the most reasonable way to adjudicate this.
Cool beans, thanks.

No problem.

Paizo Employee Designer

Chemlak wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:
How many FAQs do you discuss at one time? Like to you have 2-3 larger/harder FAQs being discussed and 1-2 easier/simpler FAQs discussed. Or is it more like you have 1 FAQ being discussed, and maybe jump to a small one if you can't get one out in a week.
Generally we have a few harder FAQs that have been tabled due to not making it through in one FAQ session, whereas FAQs that make it through in one FAQ session are much easier to release. It also helps when my pre-discussion poll, where I see what people think with just hearing the question and not biasing with what the other designers think, is unanimous, though at least once, we had that happen but then when I presented the opposing argument from the messageboard thread, it was persuasive enough to table that FAQ.
Can you share an example? (I understand this may not be possible for lots of reasons.)

I think that wouldn't be wise, as it might raise expectations more so than a particular topic should expect to know that we are partway through and have that topic tabled.

Paizo Employee Designer

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Chess Pwn wrote:
Mark. How did you decide on your picture for the forums?

As a former rogue eidolon, I became an unfettered eidolon when I became a designer at Paizo, so I took the unfettered eidolon art.


Pathfinder Companion, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

1) What's your favorite class published in...

a) ...the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook?

b) ...the Advanced Player's Guide?

c) ...the Advanced Class Guide?

d) ...Occult Adventures?

e) ...Ultimate Combat, Ultimate Magic, or Ultimate Intrigue?

2) What's your favorite 0-HD race published in...

a) ...the Pathfinder RPG Bestiary?

b) ...Bestiary 2?

c) ...Bestiary 3?

d) ...Bestiary 4?

e) ...Bestiary 5?

3) What's your favorite subsystem published in...

a) ...Ultimate Combat?

b) ...Ultimate Campaign?

c) ...Pathfinder Unchained?

d) ...Occult Adventures?

e) ...Ultimate Intrigue?

Silver Crusade

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I'm curious/confused with certain Archetypes stacking, especially with the involvement of this FaQ:

Archetype Stacking and Altering: What exactly counts as altering a class feature for the purpose of stacking archetypes? wrote:


In general, if a class feature grants multiple subfeatures, it’s OK to take two archetypes that only change two separate subfeatures. This includes two bard archetypes that alter or replace different bardic performances (even though bardic performance is technically a single class feature) or two fighter archetypes that replace the weapon training gained at different levels (sometimes referred to as “weapon training I, II, III, or IV”) even though those all fall under the class feature weapon training. However, if something alters the way the parent class feature works, such as a mime archetype that makes all bardic performances completely silent, with only visual components instead of auditory, you can’t take that archetype with an archetype that alters or replaces any of the sub-features. This even applies for something as small as adding 1 extra round of bardic performance each day, adding an additional bonus feat to the list of bonus feats you can select, or adding an additional class skill to the class. As always, individual GMs should feel free to houserule to allow small overlaps on a case by case basis, but the underlying rule exists due to the unpredictability of combining these changes.

Namely, in regards to the Weapon Training and Bardic Performances examples given herein. Mainly involving Classes with reoccurring class features given at certain levels (Oracle's Revelations, Barbarian's Rage Powers, Witch's Hexes).

Is an Archetype that gives extra of these abilities but does not otherwise modify or replace any of defiant ones considered to be modifying the entire suite of abilities and thus locking you out of Archetypes that modify or replace some of the ability?

For example, the Dual-Cursed Oracle archetype gives you an extra Revelation at 5th and 13th level. Would this be considered modifying the entire Revelations set of ability and therefore locking you out of every other Oracle archetype?

Silver Crusade

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P.S. Is there a specific term the design team uses to refer these "feat, pick from a list" style abilities?

Silver Crusade

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Typo in my first question, sorry.

That was supposed to say "default", not defiant, my bad.

Paizo Employee Designer

Luthorne wrote:

1) What's your favorite class published in...

a) ...the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook?

b) ...the Advanced Player's Guide?

c) ...the Advanced Class Guide?

d) ...Occult Adventures?

e) ...Ultimate Combat, Ultimate Magic, or Ultimate Intrigue?

Depends on what you mean by favorite. I'll answer in two ways for each.

a) I enjoy playing a wizard, but the class / its spell list have issues with balance. Maybe bard because I often like playing support.

b) I've had fun with an APG summoner, but the class / its spell list have issues with balance. Maybe alchemist, but it has some issues with rules interactions. Possibly oracle, but it has some issues with problematic dips. Maybe even inquisitor. This one's tough; so many are really cool but with some small thing. Definitely not the witch or the cavalier.

c) I've had fun with a lot of these. Maybe the arcanist, but the class / its spell list have issues with balance...Actually, I'm going to pick hunter because of how Sean managed to elegantly find the perfect solutions to people's issues in the beta without pursuing the changes people asked for in the beta that would have caused issues; he heard what they wanted and used his design-fu to figure out a better alternative in subtle and cool ways, making a class that really surprised me from the playtest version and that now is generally seen pretty positively even by the forums.

d) I've gotta go with kineticist here, since she's mine, so I'm biased. Plus they've been so much fun to play.

e) I like vigilante for its many interesting tricks and flexibility.

Quote:

2) What's your favorite 0-HD race published in...

a) ...the Pathfinder RPG Bestiary?

b) ...Bestiary 2?

c) ...Bestiary 3?

d) ...Bestiary 4?

e) ...Bestiary 5?

Is there an obvious list of these? I'll probably have to look this up slowly.

a) Tengu I guess? Might have missed some.

b)Grippli I guess? Might have missed some.

c) Vanara I guess? Again, don't know if I found them all.

d) Gathlain are cool, though they're not really balanced.

e) Astomoi are pretty amusing.

Quote:

3) What's your favorite subsystem published in...

a) ...Ultimate Combat?

b) ...Ultimate Campaign?

c) ...Pathfinder Unchained?

d) ...Occult Adventures?

e) ...Ultimate Intrigue?

a) I honestly don't use any of them. Maybe called shots not to use on its own but to mine for interesting debilitating effects for other subsystems.

b) Hmm, I guess the background generator is pretty cool.

c) So many to pick from, so hard...probably Dynamic Magic Item Creation, but maybe Automatic Bonus Progression. Lots of runners up.

d) Occult rituals are a really cool way to look at magic. I prefer a slightly different approach to calculating success, but that aside, such a well of potential story ideas.

e) Hmm...I'll cheat and pick social conflicts because they let you use a bunch of the other ones as an overarching umbrella.


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Whoops, didn't mean for it to be inconvenient. A quick list would be:

Pathfinder RPG Bestiary: Aasimar, Drow, Duergar, Goblin, Hobgoblin, Kobold, Merfolk, Orc, Svirfneblin, Tengu, and Tiefling.
Bestiary 2: Dhampir, Fetchling, Grippli, Ifrit, Oread, Sylph, and Undine.
Bestiary 3: Catfolk, Ratfolk, Suli, Vanara, and Vishkanya.
Bestiary 4: Changeling, Gathlain, Kasatha, Kitsune, Nagaji, Samsaran, Trox, Wayang, Wyrwood, and Wyvaran.
Bestiary 5: Android, Astomoi, Caligni, Deep One Hybrid, Ghoran, Orang-Pendak, Reptoid, Shabti, and Skinwalker.

Unrelatedly, I've always thought it was obvious that a sleeping character was not unconscious (be it in game terms or in real life), but a lot of people seem to feel that the reverse is obvious. What's your opinion?


Joana wrote:

Characters who are blinded must move at half speed unless they make a DC 10 Acrobatics check.

Characters who have hampered movement due to poor visibility count each square as two.

1) Is there any effective difference between movement costing double and moving at half-speed?

2) Why does the blinded condition allow a fairly-easy Acrobatics check to negate and darkness doesn't?

I have wondered about this as well.


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Oh, also, how do you prefer to calculate success for occult rituals, out of curiosity? I like the concept, but they do seem pretty tough to pull off...though the Phantom Thief seems pretty well-equipped to manage, probably.


1)What is your favorite sorcerer bloodline?

2)what is your favorite oracle mystery?

3)what is your favorite kineticist element?

4)Have you seen Miraculous Ladybug, Star vs the Forces of Evil, Gravity Falls, W.i.t.c.h., and/or Kim Possible?

5)Do you watch any anime?

6)What was the last movie you saw in Theatres?

7)What was the last videogame you played?


If you had to pick up to two classes to make offensive-focused build with unusual weapon (shield, or improvised weapon, or armor spikes ect) what would you choose?


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Oh, out of curiosity, what do you think the problem is with the Called Shots variant rule? At least, I'm presuming you find some part of it problematic if you think it's only worth mining for ideas. I've been pondering implementing it lately in a game, so if there are some issues, I'd like to know beforehand...

Paizo Employee Designer

Rysky wrote:

I'm curious/confused with certain Archetypes stacking, especially with the involvement of this FaQ:

Archetype Stacking and Altering: What exactly counts as altering a class feature for the purpose of stacking archetypes? wrote:


In general, if a class feature grants multiple subfeatures, it’s OK to take two archetypes that only change two separate subfeatures. This includes two bard archetypes that alter or replace different bardic performances (even though bardic performance is technically a single class feature) or two fighter archetypes that replace the weapon training gained at different levels (sometimes referred to as “weapon training I, II, III, or IV”) even though those all fall under the class feature weapon training. However, if something alters the way the parent class feature works, such as a mime archetype that makes all bardic performances completely silent, with only visual components instead of auditory, you can’t take that archetype with an archetype that alters or replaces any of the sub-features. This even applies for something as small as adding 1 extra round of bardic performance each day, adding an additional bonus feat to the list of bonus feats you can select, or adding an additional class skill to the class. As always, individual GMs should feel free to houserule to allow small overlaps on a case by case basis, but the underlying rule exists due to the unpredictability of combining these changes.

Namely, in regards to the Weapon Training and Bardic Performances examples given herein. Mainly involving Classes with reoccurring class features given at certain levels (Oracle's Revelations, Barbarian's Rage Powers, Witch's Hexes).

Is an Archetype that gives extra of these abilities but does not otherwise modify or replace any of defiant ones considered to be modifying the entire suite of abilities and thus locking you out of Archetypes that modify or replace some of the ability?

For example, the Dual-Cursed Oracle archetype gives you an extra Revelation at 5th and 13th...

While people know that my home group chooses to allow archetypes where, say, one archetype replaces Skill A with Skill B and another archetype adds Skill C, even though that technically isn't allowed by FAQ, adding and subtracting is a case where not only does the FAQ prevent it, but it really should. Consider a hypothetical archetype (not that this is a good archetype to begin with and I hope we never see it or anything similar, but it's illustrative in that stacking with a removal will break it more) that trades away the vigilante's social talents for five more vigilante talents. This is seriously problematic to start for a variety of reasons, but it's not as bad power-level-wise as it could be, since for an ordinary vigilante, you were already going to get 10 vigilante talents, so while you're getting 50% more, you're mostly adding on your 11th through 15th favorite choices. But for a warlock or other caster vigilante? They traded 5 vigilante talents for spellcasting, and now they've not only doubled their vigilante talents available, they're adding on their 6th through 10th favorites (far more valuable than adding your 11th through 15th favorites when you already have 10).

In summary: adding and removing the number of times you can pick from your class feature list doesn't stack by the FAQ, and under the litmus test our group uses to decide when we're going to ignore the FAQ (which is "Do the two alterations have any interaction with each other? If not, then it's OK"), it also fails that test.

Paizo Employee Designer

Rysky wrote:
P.S. Is there a specific term the design team uses to refer these "feat, pick from a list" style abilities?

I usually call them class talents, but we call them different things at different times and so far we always seem to know what the others mean.

Paizo Employee Designer

Luthorne wrote:

Whoops, didn't mean for it to be inconvenient. A quick list would be:

Pathfinder RPG Bestiary: Aasimar, Drow, Duergar, Goblin, Hobgoblin, Kobold, Merfolk, Orc, Svirfneblin, Tengu, and Tiefling.
Bestiary 2: Dhampir, Fetchling, Grippli, Ifrit, Oread, Sylph, and Undine.
Bestiary 3: Catfolk, Ratfolk, Suli, Vanara, and Vishkanya.
Bestiary 4: Changeling, Gathlain, Kasatha, Kitsune, Nagaji, Samsaran, Trox, Wayang, Wyrwood, and Wyvaran.
Bestiary 5: Android, Astomoi, Caligni, Deep One Hybrid, Ghoran, Orang-Pendak, Reptoid, Shabti, and Skinwalker.

Unrelatedly, I've always thought it was obvious that a sleeping character was not unconscious (be it in game terms or in real life), but a lot of people seem to feel that the reverse is obvious. What's your opinion?

Looks like the only one I missed was merfolk out of all five bestiaries in my skim; not bad! Maybe merfolk are cooler than tengu, though obviously they aren't balanced with the others given horrible land speed but +2 AC and three +2 stats. Then again, I picked gathlain and they aren't a balanced option either what with being a winged fey.

Paizo Employee Designer

Luthorne wrote:
Oh, also, how do you prefer to calculate success for occult rituals, out of curiosity? I like the concept, but they do seem pretty tough to pull off...though the Phantom Thief seems pretty well-equipped to manage, probably.

Actually, as written, the higher-level ones sometimes get bizarrely easier to pull off. See Dasrak's thread for the forum poster who came to the same math as I had as well as my two recommendations.

Paizo Employee Designer

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Dragon78 wrote:

1)What is your favorite sorcerer bloodline?

2)what is your favorite oracle mystery?

3)what is your favorite kineticist element?

4)Have you seen Miraculous Ladybug, Star vs the Forces of Evil, Gravity Falls, W.i.t.c.h., and/or Kim Possible?

5)Do you watch any anime?

6)What was the last movie you saw in Theatres?

7)What was the last videogame you played?

1) I want to like fey bloodline, and it's probably still my favorite, but sometimes I wish it didn't give +2 to DCs of compulsions.

2) I like several of them, but I guessed I actually played a loracle, so judging by my actions, Lore.

3) I can't pick between my babies! Any of the original five because they have more talents than void and wood.

4) I haven't. I tried to watch one episode of witch with Linda because we enjoyed Young Justice and I enjoyed Gargoyles, but she really didn't like it, and I wasn't favorably disposed yet. I've heard in this thread that Gravity Falls is good. Maybe if it gets on Netflix; they have some Disney stuff.

5) Not as much recently, though my little brother convinced me to watch Erased one episode before the lowest-rated episode where the main character acts really dumb, which my brother thought was funny timing.

6) Star Wars: The Force Awakens.

7) I played a bunch of Pathfinder Adventures when it came out, and Linda and I played a little bit of Brothers: Tale of Two Sons last night with her on wasd and me on arrow keys. I hear it's short, so we probably did like 1/3-1/2.

Paizo Employee Designer

Nekomimi^w^ wrote:
If you had to pick up to two classes to make offensive-focused build with unusual weapon (shield, or improvised weapon, or armor spikes ect) what would you choose?

I don't know, you can be pretty strong with shields with just about any class. A lot would depend on what resources are available. If we go with "what my homegroup uses", that's something no one but my group can relate to but would be my first natural thought. Warpriest shield TWF is pretty solid anywhere though; sacred weapon to up the damage, use the bonus feats to bypass Shield Master's BAB requirement. Having a fully decked-out shield is putting you above the AC the game expects you to have, so it's always a useful and powerful defensive option as long as you can always put out the damage. Generally you'd want something for shield with enough bonus feats to take the juicy shield feats.

Paizo Employee Designer

Luthorne wrote:
Oh, out of curiosity, what do you think the problem is with the Called Shots variant rule? At least, I'm presuming you find some part of it problematic if you think it's only worth mining for ideas. I've been pondering implementing it lately in a game, so if there are some issues, I'd like to know beforehand...

The logistics of them don't really track well for me. You give up a lot for what's essentially a hail mary play (since the non-crit effects are pretty minor so you are kind of relying on a crit), but if you make the higher effects too much more accessible, then the pendulum swings the other way. They work great when I need a chart of "what bad thing happens when someone gets a lasting wound to X body part" though, and honestly I don't have that many issues with the whole system, compared to say UC's armor as DR rules (not that armor as DR isn't interesting, just that some specifics of UC's take don't work for me that well).


Pathfinder Companion, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Mark Seifter wrote:
Luthorne wrote:
Oh, out of curiosity, what do you think the problem is with the Called Shots variant rule? At least, I'm presuming you find some part of it problematic if you think it's only worth mining for ideas. I've been pondering implementing it lately in a game, so if there are some issues, I'd like to know beforehand...
The logistics of them don't really track well for me. You give up a lot for what's essentially a hail mary play (since the non-crit effects are pretty minor so you are kind of relying on a crit), but if you make the higher effects too much more accessible, then the pendulum swings the other way. They work great when I need a chart of "what bad thing happens when someone gets a lasting wound to X body part" though, and honestly I don't have that many issues with the whole system, compared to say UC's armor as DR rules (not that armor as DR isn't interesting, just that some specifics of UC's take don't work for me that well).

If you give the benefits of Improved Called Shot for free, do you think it's more worthwhile? Or is that part of the pendulum swinging the other way?


Well since I take it your not a fan of the fey bloodline's arcana ability what would have given it instead?

Paizo Employee Designer

Luthorne wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Luthorne wrote:
Oh, out of curiosity, what do you think the problem is with the Called Shots variant rule? At least, I'm presuming you find some part of it problematic if you think it's only worth mining for ideas. I've been pondering implementing it lately in a game, so if there are some issues, I'd like to know beforehand...
The logistics of them don't really track well for me. You give up a lot for what's essentially a hail mary play (since the non-crit effects are pretty minor so you are kind of relying on a crit), but if you make the higher effects too much more accessible, then the pendulum swings the other way. They work great when I need a chart of "what bad thing happens when someone gets a lasting wound to X body part" though, and honestly I don't have that many issues with the whole system, compared to say UC's armor as DR rules (not that armor as DR isn't interesting, just that some specifics of UC's take don't work for me that well).
If you give the benefits of Improved Called Shot for free, do you think it's more worthwhile? Or is that part of the pendulum swinging the other way?

I'd say that's a pendulum swing the other way. The math of the system works out to eventually make iteratives the rolls that are actually in question, which means that the initial attack roll is pretty much an auto-hit much of the time even with a penalty. So that makes the non-crit effects essentially free (granted they aren't usually terribly huge) and the crit effects are basically an additional free Xing Critical feat on that first attack. It also even more so pushes for 18-20 crit weapons over all else, which isn't an effect I want to see.

Paizo Employee Designer

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Dragon78 wrote:

Well since I take it your not a fan of the fey bloodline's arcana ability what would have given it instead?

+2 spell DC is generally not a good idea, and it's basically for the enchantment school minus a small selection of spells. Something fun and trickstery might have been interesting for fey bloodline, rather than a crushingly effective power option, like maybe casting a spell counts as a distraction for hiding.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Mark Seifter wrote:
In summary: adding and removing the number of times you can pick from your class feature list doesn't stack by the FAQ, and under the litmus test our group uses to decide when we're going to ignore the FAQ (which is "Do the two alterations have any interaction with each other? If not, then it's OK"), it also fails that test.

K, my apologies.

Mainly the FaQ was confusing to me and seemed (to me) to contradict itself in places.

So if something removes class talents it affects only the class talents it removes, but if it adds class talents completely irrevelant to and without touching the default talents it's still considered to be modifying the entire class talent class ability feature and therefore locks the class in regards to trading out specific class talents, correct?

Paizo Employee Designer

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Rysky wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
In summary: adding and removing the number of times you can pick from your class feature list doesn't stack by the FAQ, and under the litmus test our group uses to decide when we're going to ignore the FAQ (which is "Do the two alterations have any interaction with each other? If not, then it's OK"), it also fails that test.

K, my apologies.

Mainly the FaQ was confusing to me and seemed (to me) to contradict itself in places.

So if something removes class talents it affects only the class talents it removes, but if it adds class talents completely irrevelant to and without touching the default talents it's still considered to be modifying the entire class talent class ability feature and therefore locks the class in regards to trading out specific class talents, correct?

Yes, adding more is an alteration. If my earlier example didn't help explain, then consider the following two hypothetical archetypes:

Archetype A for sorcerers gives a +1 bonus to the DC of all your spells for every bloodline feat you've taken (normally you get 3 of these ever, and only 1 from levels 1 through 12). Archetype B gives you an extra bloodline feat at every even level.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Mark Seifter wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
In summary: adding and removing the number of times you can pick from your class feature list doesn't stack by the FAQ, and under the litmus test our group uses to decide when we're going to ignore the FAQ (which is "Do the two alterations have any interaction with each other? If not, then it's OK"), it also fails that test.

K, my apologies.

Mainly the FaQ was confusing to me and seemed (to me) to contradict itself in places.

So if something removes class talents it affects only the class talents it removes, but if it adds class talents completely irrevelant to and without touching the default talents it's still considered to be modifying the entire class talent class ability feature and therefore locks the class in regards to trading out specific class talents, correct?

Yes, adding more is an alteration. If my earlier example didn't help explain, then consider the following two hypothetical archetypes:

Archetype A for sorcerers gives a +1 bonus to the DC of all your spells for every bloodline feat you've taken (normally you get 3 of these ever, and only 1 from levels 1 through 12). Archetype B gives you an extra bloodline feat at every even level.

...

*confused again*

Archetype A doesn't modify the feats though...

Paizo Employee Designer

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Rysky wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
In summary: adding and removing the number of times you can pick from your class feature list doesn't stack by the FAQ, and under the litmus test our group uses to decide when we're going to ignore the FAQ (which is "Do the two alterations have any interaction with each other? If not, then it's OK"), it also fails that test.

K, my apologies.

Mainly the FaQ was confusing to me and seemed (to me) to contradict itself in places.

So if something removes class talents it affects only the class talents it removes, but if it adds class talents completely irrevelant to and without touching the default talents it's still considered to be modifying the entire class talent class ability feature and therefore locks the class in regards to trading out specific class talents, correct?

Yes, adding more is an alteration. If my earlier example didn't help explain, then consider the following two hypothetical archetypes:

Archetype A for sorcerers gives a +1 bonus to the DC of all your spells for every bloodline feat you've taken (normally you get 3 of these ever, and only 1 from levels 1 through 12). Archetype B gives you an extra bloodline feat at every even level.

...

*confused again*

Archetype A doesn't modify the feats though...

It does. It causes them to give you +1 DC of all spells. Archetype A's ability would appropriately look something like "Bloodline Feat Surge: The power of your bloodline feats strengthens each sorcerer spell you cast. Whenever you gain a bloodline feat, add +1 to the DC of all your sorcerer spells. This ability alters bloodline feats and replaces XX."

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Mark Seifter wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
In summary: adding and removing the number of times you can pick from your class feature list doesn't stack by the FAQ, and under the litmus test our group uses to decide when we're going to ignore the FAQ (which is "Do the two alterations have any interaction with each other? If not, then it's OK"), it also fails that test.

K, my apologies.

Mainly the FaQ was confusing to me and seemed (to me) to contradict itself in places.

So if something removes class talents it affects only the class talents it removes, but if it adds class talents completely irrevelant to and without touching the default talents it's still considered to be modifying the entire class talent class ability feature and therefore locks the class in regards to trading out specific class talents, correct?

Yes, adding more is an alteration. If my earlier example didn't help explain, then consider the following two hypothetical archetypes:

Archetype A for sorcerers gives a +1 bonus to the DC of all your spells for every bloodline feat you've taken (normally you get 3 of these ever, and only 1 from levels 1 through 12). Archetype B gives you an extra bloodline feat at every even level.

...

*confused again*

Archetype A doesn't modify the feats though...

It does. It causes them to give you +1 DC of all spells. Archetype A's ability would appropriately look something like "Bloodline Feat Surge: The power of your bloodline feats strengthens each sorcerer spell you cast. Whenever you gain a bloodline feat, add +1 to the DC of all your sorcerer spells. This ability alters bloodline feats and replaces XX."

Well that last sentence makes it clear because it calls it out.

So even without that, since the archetype gives you an ability that is influenced by having another ability it's considered to be modifying said ability even though it doesn't directly alter or replace the ability?

Sorry for the hassle, I'm still confused... but I think I understand it a bit more...


1)What are some of your favorite bloodline arcanas and why?

2)What is your favorite kineticist defense ability?

3)What are your top 5 favorite classes?

4)What are your favorite feat choices you like regardless of class?

5)What are favorite arcane, divine, and psychic spells?

Paizo Employee Designer

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Rysky wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
In summary: adding and removing the number of times you can pick from your class feature list doesn't stack by the FAQ, and under the litmus test our group uses to decide when we're going to ignore the FAQ (which is "Do the two alterations have any interaction with each other? If not, then it's OK"), it also fails that test.

K, my apologies.

Mainly the FaQ was confusing to me and seemed (to me) to contradict itself in places.

So if something removes class talents it affects only the class talents it removes, but if it adds class talents completely irrevelant to and without touching the default talents it's still considered to be modifying the entire class talent class ability feature and therefore locks the class in regards to trading out specific class talents, correct?

Yes, adding more is an alteration. If my earlier example didn't help explain, then consider the following two hypothetical archetypes:

Archetype A for sorcerers gives a +1 bonus to the DC of all your spells for every bloodline feat you've taken (normally you get 3 of these ever, and only 1 from levels 1 through 12). Archetype B gives you an extra bloodline feat at every even level.

...

*confused again*

Archetype A doesn't modify the feats though...

It does. It causes them to give you +1 DC of all spells. Archetype A's ability would appropriately look something like "Bloodline Feat Surge: The power of your bloodline feats strengthens each sorcerer spell you cast. Whenever you gain a bloodline feat, add +1 to the DC of all your sorcerer spells. This ability alters bloodline feats and replaces XX."

Well that last sentence makes it clear because it calls it out.

So even without that, since the archetype gives you an ability that is influenced by having another ability it's considered to be modifying said ability even though it doesn't directly alter or replace the ability?

Sorry for...

The lack of callout is typical for earlier books before "this alters" became a thing. However, knowing when you've altered another class feature is crucial for archetype stacking to work, and creating a new dependency on a feature is indeed altering it (by adding a dependency). Otherwise you can wind up creating an ability that doesn't work or even does nothing. While the other combo described was obviously an unacceptable power increase, consider the bloodline feat surge ability paired with an archetype that removes all bloodline feats; now it does nothing. This is less bad than the other way around because players will just not choose a combo that does nothing anyway, essentially de facto making them not stack even if they hypothetically could by the rules.


Which style strike of the unchained monk is your favorite?
Which do you feel sounds the coolest if different?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Mark Seifter wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
In summary: adding and removing the number of times you can pick from your class feature list doesn't stack by the FAQ, and under the litmus test our group uses to decide when we're going to ignore the FAQ (which is "Do the two alterations have any interaction with each other? If not, then it's OK"), it also fails that test.

K, my apologies.

Mainly the FaQ was confusing to me and seemed (to me) to contradict itself in places.

So if something removes class talents it affects only the class talents it removes, but if it adds class talents completely irrevelant to and without touching the default talents it's still considered to be modifying the entire class talent class ability feature and therefore locks the class in regards to trading out specific class talents, correct?

Yes, adding more is an alteration. If my earlier example didn't help explain, then consider the following two hypothetical archetypes:

Archetype A for sorcerers gives a +1 bonus to the DC of all your spells for every bloodline feat you've taken (normally you get 3 of these ever, and only 1 from levels 1 through 12). Archetype B gives you an extra bloodline feat at every even level.

...

*confused again*

Archetype A doesn't modify the feats though...

It does. It causes them to give you +1 DC of all spells. Archetype A's ability would appropriately look something like "Bloodline Feat Surge: The power of your bloodline feats strengthens each sorcerer spell you cast. Whenever you gain a bloodline feat, add +1 to the DC of all your sorcerer spells. This ability alters bloodline feats and replaces XX."

Well that last sentence makes it clear because it calls it out.

So even without that, since the archetype gives you an ability that is influenced by having another ability it's considered to be modifying said ability even though it doesn't directly alter or replace

...

K


I have asked that question in other threads, but I would rather do it again here for a somewhat more official statement.

Are kineticists intended to be able to benefit from the to-hit bonus from combat stamina on their kinetic blasts (presuming the feat is allowed and they took it)? How about for the kinetic fist and kinetic blade infusions?

Also, how would you price items giving enhancements to kinetic blast - i.e. bane, vicious, un/holy, etc - and what items do you think work best thematically? I am thinking rods, scepters, staves, orbs and the like.


What do you think on Words of Power?

Any hint on when will they be expanded?

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Was curious about infernal healing.

(Preface: THIS PARTICULAR QUESTION HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH ALIGNMENT)

The components for the spell are "1 drop of devil blood or 1 dose of unholy water".

Now, unholy water costs 25g, whereas there is no listed price for a "drop" of devil blood, which has lead to two assumptions about it.

The first, that unholy water costs 25g so therefore the devil blood must also cost a similar amount and thus not being subject to the eschew materials feat.

The second is that since there is no price listed for devil blood then the spell qualifies for eschew materials.

What are your thoughts?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Jesus Christ, get some unholy water. Unless, of course you have a devil you can drain...

At least, that would be my answer. Which is also why they put the OR in there would be my guess. :-)

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