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The following question is posed with the assumption that slavery is a bad thing.
Does a magically summoned creature appear because they want to serve, or because they are compelled to serve? If the answer is the latter, then one should always refrain from using such spells.
By similar reasoning, spells that enthrall, command, or otherwise compel a creature should also be avoided.
The phrase, "The ends justify the means," should never be accepted as a reason to use such enslaving spells. If it were to be accepted, then that would open the flood-gates to reasoning that could easily justify any slavery.
The original question of this paper is an actual question, and not rhetorical. As I do not have any such spells myself, I cannot simply summon a creature to ask them why they obey (also, that would be like kidnapping someone just to ask them if they like being kidnapped). If anyone knows of resources that I might use to answer this question, I would be most appreciative if these resources were share with me.
I think one explanation (from one of the Book of the Damned books iirc) is that you are not summoning actual existing outsiders, the summon conjures a creature out of raw plane...stuff. Now, Planar Binding is potential slavery.
One theory I've heard, though, is that this is how weaker outsiders grind XP
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Is forced servitude of something that has no soul innate slavery?
Fire elementals are creatures of fire. They have no souls. They are living fire.
by the same logic is using a horse the same as enslaving the horse. I would imagine that a horse forced into battle by a fighter is not wildly happy about the situation.
I also expect the cow on the farm is not real happy about becoming next week's dinner. Should these animals not be set free?
I like the idea behind this topic of discussion.
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"Perhaps I, as both an enchanter and a binder of outsiders, can provide some guidance in this.
First, understand that summons themselves do no bring forth the actual being, but rather conjure forth an equivalent representation of it. There are no beings on other planes even aware that they've been "summoned", because summons are not of specific beings, but rather the idea of the being: when you summon a babau, you bring forth not a representation of Gluznosr the Babau, but simple a generic "babau". There is no soul, no real "self" there to enslave, and so no enslavement.
Bindings of course are another matter, since one does physically transport the outsider into a prison, whereupon one then compels service from it. I have bound and greater bound a great number of elementals and outsiders, including angels, and it has been the source of some discomfort to those not really familiar with what an outsider really is.
By their very nature, outsiders are servitor creatures; manifestations of ethos, they are in some sense constructs... they aren't really "beings" in any sense of agency or self-awareness. Not "people", to use a familiar idea. A dog has more intrinsic value as a "being" than does even the most potent outsider. Their purpose is akin to a tool; binding simply appropriates a tool for uses other than intended; at most, binding an outsider might be seen as tantamount to theft, or, since its duration is temporary, borrowing without permission. There is no basis for considering it to be slavery: there is nothing to enslave.
As for magical compulsion? Interestingly, a compelled creature desires to serve its master. It is a situation wholly different from slavery, in which service is compelled by threat and intimidation. Indeed, I have used domination to empower those who serve me, by alleviating them of such mental foibles as fear or uncertaintly: if anything, it can be freeing. Just as service to a higher cause or respected authority (such as characterizes a knight, for example) can allow someone to attain goals they thought beyond them, so compulsion, applied judiciously, can supplement courage and faith. While it can be abused, it's hardly slavery in any definitive sense.
Slavery is enough in and of itself: institutional bondage based on threat. Focus on stopping that, and don't try to extend it to areas in which it is untenable."
Is forced servitude of something that has no soul innate slavery?
Fire elementals are creatures of fire. They have no souls. They are living fire.
by the same logic is using a horse the same as enslaving the horse. I would imagine that a horse forced into battle by a fighter is not wildly happy about the situation.
I also expect the cow on the farm is not real happy about becoming next week's dinner. Should these animals not be set free?
I like the idea behind this topic of discussion.
Next: you will be arguing that androids have no souls and can be enslaved.
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Quick correction: Outsiders are very much people.
A person doesn't stop being a person because they died and their soul transcended old forms to be wrapped in new ones. Origin doesn't dictate personhood.
As for how outsiders see aspects of themselves being summoned, it's going to depend on the outsider and why they're being summoned.
A lilend who puts her name in the pool to have echoes of herself available to summon and help others in the multiverse has very different views on the matter than an incubus who has been slaved to the "calling song" as punishment or a barbazu who enlists in the summoning game in order to promote Hell's agendas in whatever way he can.
Regarding the defense of compulsive magic as not being slavery: Compulsive magic violates consent. It enslaves in its own way, and anyone using enchantment magic should be well aware of the shaky moral and ethical ground they tread upon when using such magics.
Slavery doesn't stop being slavery just because you can hack into their heart, mind, and soul to play with their thoughts and desires.
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Quick correction: Outsiders are very much people.
A person doesn't stop being a person because they died and their soul transcended old forms to be wrapped in new ones. Origin doesn't dictate personhood.
"While I understand your misconception - outsiders, especially those of the good-aligned planes, often present in pleasing, humanoid forms - they are merely actionable facets of their respective ethos and plane of existence, their former souls having provided the energy or fodder for their creation. They are servants of powers beyond their access and understanding, and their binding is the mere, temporary deflection of a tool to another purpose.
Lacking the duality of soul and body, never sleeping, never eating, eternally vigilant, they are utterly alien to the "person" experience. Do not be fooled by their beautiful faces and lilting voices; their summoning or binding is the unsheathing of a sword, the drawing of an arrow from a quiver."
Mikaze speaks wisely regarding the use of enchantment magic. Magically compelling a being to not rebel against slavery is a particularly insidious form of slavery.
"What of magically compelling a being to rebel against slavery? Most slaves have been conditioned to accept their fate - indeed, the rehabilitation of the lifelong-enslaved is a problem seldom discussed in Andoran circles, but it is very real... not everyone can afford to be healed - and are unlikely to seek freedom of their own volition; many times, slaves even fail to cooperate with their rescuers. Compulsion can ease this process.
Like most magic, compulsion and charm are as good or bad as their intended use, or as pure or corrupt as their casters' intentions."
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As for magical compulsion? Interestingly, a compelled creature desires to serve its master. It is a situation wholly different from slavery, in which service is compelled by threat and intimidation.
Absolutely NOT! You are using magic to force someone's mind to what you want it to be. That's even worse than forcing their body.
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Absolutely NOT! You are using magic to force someone's mind to what you want it to be. That's even worse than forcing their body.
Violetta regards Flutter cooly, but still smiles, radiantly. She brushes a platinum strand of hair behind her ear, tilting her head just slightly, as though mildly interested or amused.
"You seem to have quite strong opinions on the matter - so strong, in fact, that I wonder if their source is more personal than ideological."
"I can tell you that magical compulsion is hardly so simple - even I, an undisputed master of the art, cannot force someone's mind into whatever state I desire. I can influence and guide, very strongly, but I must still be careful with the demand I make, lest they break the bond with their will. Granted, they might not, especially if they are - and this applies to most - weak willed. But even then, I could never, for example, compel someone to self-destruction, unless I applied very dark arts indeed, such as the demonic secrets of Sifkesh, and then we are leaving the mere province of magical compulsion.
The whip and the sword are far more efficient in the removal of human agency than any application of magical compulsion.
The only magical means to render a victim merest puppet is necromancy, either through the displacement of the soul, as with magic jar, or through the appropriation of the empty body itself, after death, via necromantic reanimation. Of course, that's another argument entirely."
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Quick correction: Outsiders are very much people.
There are two kinds of beings in the world, at least only two relevant kinds. Chessmasters and Pawns. It is the destiny of pawns to be placed on a board and moved by Chessmasters. Although many who see themselves as chess masters are themselves pawns of a greater master.
There are those who say that enslaving nonhuman outsiders is some kind of wrong. I'm sure that they would also agree that killing is wrong. I would argue then that if absolute morality is one's goal, then they should immediately start starving to death as even plants are considered by many to have lives of their own.
And thus we come to the self defeating folly of those who look for absolute morality. There is only the Game we must all play. If there is a moral end to be sought it would be to make that Game as fair as one can.
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"You seem to have quite strong opinions on the matter - so strong, in fact, that I wonder if their source is more personal than ideological."
Trying to insult my motives won't cover up the fact that a chain that can break is still a chain. Ensnaring someone's mind to your will is no different than chaining them in a field. What you do makes as much a mockery of the ties that truly bind people together as necromancy makes of life. Its a cold, pale, artificial reflection of true beauty... something I think you know very little of.
I'm not going to say its never a good idea. I've done it myself when a poor abused lion and a snake were both trying to eat people at the same time and I couldn't tell the lion to play nice with the snake. But pulling someone's heart strings is something you should take just as seriously as swinging a sword or throwing fire at them, and the wounds are even harder to heal.
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"Once more we see the self-righteousness of Andoran ideology rear it's ugly head. To declare any who call upon the minions of the outer realms to be no better than slave masters, is to admit your own slavery to such outdated and ignorant concepts of morality.
It's time that you open your eyes, and realize the truth of things. The truth that we do not enslave such creatures, we set them free from their bonds. If they chose to destroy our enemies then so be it. If the blood of demons call for the anger of devils, or the righteousness of angels, let it be done."