Must a staff really be charged in the morning?


Rules Questions


34 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

The rules for staves seem to indicate that they must be charged in the morning, when a spellcaster prepares spells. Is it really the intent of the rules for various spellcasters (such as divine casters who prepare their spells at night) to not be able to charge a staff? Or was the intent really to mean "each day" rather than each morning?


FAQ'd this. It's crucial to usage of the item ^.^


The intent is probably that you must charge the stave when you prepare or renew (spontaneous casters) your spells. Not at the end of your adventuring day after you see you have some left over.


And that's kind of what makes Staves crappy magic items, in my experience. Unless you're sure of the downtime, the recharge option is worse than the "50 charges and your done" of the 3.5 staff.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Depend on your class, what is in the staff and other stuff, disciple.
I am currently playing Carrion Crown and Reign of winter.

In CC we are constantly moving but I would have no problem recharging a staff. While traveling we, on the average, have less than 1 encounter every day. I never use all of my spells and would gladly use my highest spell in the morning to charge a staff. Maybe I would lose 1 spell spell that I would have found useful, but the staff would have several different spells available the day I did need them.

In RoW I almost never had a day where I had any spell left, but we are 4th level, so that is the norm.

FAQed, even if we really need an errata.


This is a silly question. No one plays it that way. The RAI is clear, and the rules assume you are re-doing spells in the morning, any other time is optional.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

DrDeth wrote:
No one plays it that way.

That's an interesting assertion to make.


I believe

Quote:
Each morning, when a spellcaster prepares spells or regains spell slots,

should be interpreted as:

Each morning (defined as when a caster prepares spells or regains spell slots)

Just as morning for someone who works graveyards is not going to be in the AM, morning is different for different spell casters. It is this magical 'morning' that is significant when charging a staff.


Quote:
Each morning, when a spellcaster prepares spells or regains spell slots

IMO, this sounds like either:

A) Each morning, when the spellcaster prepares his spells; OR
B) When the spellcaster regains spell slots (which may be at any time of the day).

So they have to recharge the staff when they recovered all their spell slots for the day.


Ravingdork wrote:
The rules for staves seem to indicate that they must be charged in the morning, when a spellcaster prepares spells. Is it really the intent of the rules for various spellcasters (such as divine casters who prepare their spells at night) to not be able to charge a staff? Or was the intent really to mean "each day" rather than each morning?

They have to be recharged when you prepare spells, because otherwise, you can just wait until right before then and infuse them with an unused slot. This way, you're down something for the recharge.


I assume the requirement is this way because it's an empty spell slot that's needed. Though it was probably written this way for game balance.


Zhayne wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
The rules for staves seem to indicate that they must be charged in the morning, when a spellcaster prepares spells. Is it really the intent of the rules for various spellcasters (such as divine casters who prepare their spells at night) to not be able to charge a staff? Or was the intent really to mean "each day" rather than each morning?
They have to be recharged when you prepare spells, because otherwise, you can just wait until right before then and infuse them with an unused slot. This way, you're down something for the recharge.

The question being asked is for if a divine spellcaster regains spell slots at night instead of in the morning. Basically, wondering if the recharge is tied to when spells are regained only, or if time of day is also a factor.


MagusJanus wrote:
Zhayne wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
The rules for staves seem to indicate that they must be charged in the morning, when a spellcaster prepares spells. Is it really the intent of the rules for various spellcasters (such as divine casters who prepare their spells at night) to not be able to charge a staff? Or was the intent really to mean "each day" rather than each morning?
They have to be recharged when you prepare spells, because otherwise, you can just wait until right before then and infuse them with an unused slot. This way, you're down something for the recharge.
The question being asked is for if a divine spellcaster regains spell slots at night instead of in the morning. Basically, wondering if the recharge is tied to when spells are regained only, or if time of day is also a factor.

Which I answered. It depends on when you prepare spells, otherwise, it's no drawback at all.


Zhayne wrote:
MagusJanus wrote:
Zhayne wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
The rules for staves seem to indicate that they must be charged in the morning, when a spellcaster prepares spells. Is it really the intent of the rules for various spellcasters (such as divine casters who prepare their spells at night) to not be able to charge a staff? Or was the intent really to mean "each day" rather than each morning?
They have to be recharged when you prepare spells, because otherwise, you can just wait until right before then and infuse them with an unused slot. This way, you're down something for the recharge.
The question being asked is for if a divine spellcaster regains spell slots at night instead of in the morning. Basically, wondering if the recharge is tied to when spells are regained only, or if time of day is also a factor.
Which I answered. It depends on when you prepare spells, otherwise, it's no drawback at all.

As worded, it suggests you can only recharge it if you prepare spells of a morning. Not that you can recharge it when you happen to be capable of preparing spells that day.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

The problem is that only a small subset of the characters must prepare his spell in the morning. The followers of gods that require then to prepare spell in the morning.
A bard can stay up all night partying, go to bed after dawn, wake after 8 ours of sound sleep and prepare his spells. The rules allow that. So the "in the morning" limitation isn't in line with the ability of characters to prepare their spell slots at any time.

Even more interesting, the term "prepare spell" can be exploited by memorizing casters. There is this line in the magic section:

PRD wrote:
Later during that day, he can repeat the preparation process as often as he likes, time and circumstances permitting. During these extra sessions of preparation, the wizard can fill these unused spell slots. He cannot, however, abandon a previously prepared spell to replace it with another one or fill a slot that is empty because he has cast a spell in the meantime.

So the prepared caster can get into the habit to go to sleep at 7 AM after adventuring during the night (that work especially well if you have a long subterranean adventure or you are playing in the far north or south with very few hours of darkness in summer and very few hours of daylight in winter). When memorizing his spells he always leave a 1st level slot open (or a cantrip, it is possible to leave a cantrip slot open?). The just before going to bed he prepare that slot. If he has a spell slot of the right level unused he recharge the staff too. that way he has the benefit of deciding if he want to recharge the staff just before going to bed, not when waking.

The spontaneous spellcasters and the divine casters that must memorize his spell in the morning get the short en of the stick in this scenario, and that is a unintended consequence, I think.

@DrDeth Most groups houserule it. They require you to recharge your staff when you prepare your spells for the first time in the day.
In PFS you generally recharge it off stage between adventures, so it is not a problem.
So it is a real problem only for people that want to stick to the RAW of the game or have no flexibility at all.
Or for people that want to game the system and want to use the loophole I depicted above.

Paizo Glitterati Robot

Removed a few derailing posts. If you want to discuss how the rules forum works/should work, this isn't the thread to do it in.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

*tries really hard no to make a cringe-worthy pun about a long staff full of hard magic that needs to be re-charged every morning*

*fails Abyssaly*

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ravingdork wrote:
The rules for staves seem to indicate that they must be charged in the morning, when a spellcaster prepares spells. Is it really the intent of the rules for various spellcasters (such as divine casters who prepare their spells at night) to not be able to charge a staff? Or was the intent really to mean "each day" rather than each morning?

If it helps... the rule is more like the staff must be recharged when the caster regains hir spell slots.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Zhayne wrote:
MagusJanus wrote:
Zhayne wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
The rules for staves seem to indicate that they must be charged in the morning, when a spellcaster prepares spells. Is it really the intent of the rules for various spellcasters (such as divine casters who prepare their spells at night) to not be able to charge a staff? Or was the intent really to mean "each day" rather than each morning?
They have to be recharged when you prepare spells, because otherwise, you can just wait until right before then and infuse them with an unused slot. This way, you're down something for the recharge.
The question being asked is for if a divine spellcaster regains spell slots at night instead of in the morning. Basically, wondering if the recharge is tied to when spells are regained only, or if time of day is also a factor.
Which I answered. It depends on when you prepare spells, otherwise, it's no drawback at all.

That you can only recharge one charge per 'day' and staves being extremely expensive are not large enough drawbacks or balancing factors?


I never noticed that before. Now I have another reason to not use staves. As a GM I will just ignore that rule.

Scarab Sages

MagusJanus wrote:
As worded, it suggests you can only recharge it if you prepare spells of a morning. Not that you can recharge it when you happen to be capable of preparing spells that day.

The sentence contains two conditions that may not align with each other. The first condition assumes the second condition always occurs at a preset time.

What would you rule if adventuring in a place where there were no mornings? In a place where the light/dark cycle occurred more than once per day and/or never involved sunrise?

WotR:

In the Midnight Isles there is no sun, only a moon that rises and sets on an 8 hour cycle. The PC's have the potential for considerable downtime while in this location.


I always assumes the when you prepare spells part was what mattered.


Artanthos wrote:
MagusJanus wrote:
As worded, it suggests you can only recharge it if you prepare spells of a morning. Not that you can recharge it when you happen to be capable of preparing spells that day.

The sentence contains two conditions that may not align with each other. The first condition assumes the second condition always occurs at a preset time.

What would you rule if adventuring in a place where there were no mornings? In a place where the light/dark cycle occurred more than once per day and/or never involved sunrise?

** spoiler omitted **

My group doesn't use Pathfinder staves. It's due to the most common campaign setup we end up with.

Personally, I would rewrite the entire recharge rule. Have it specify it is when they regain spells that day.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I think we could probably get a few more FAQs on this one.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Must a staff really be charged in the morning? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.