Best Ways to Prepare a First-Time Gamer?


Advice


Folks,

Something incredible has happened---today the sister who always (not unkindly) teased me about loving d20 RPG (D&D & Pathfinder) with absurd questions like "So, are you a 9th level dragon yet?" has finally asked me to teach her to play!

I've selected a module, "Crypt of the Everflame," and ordered "Confessions of a Part-Time Sorceress" from my local library (because that was my introduction to the basics).

Obviously the most important thing is for her to have fun.

I don't want her feeling overwhelmed early on, so I'll be giving her a pre-gen fighter or rogue.

Any other advice or resources on how to best introduce a complete novice to the basics?

Thanks, any input is appreciated!


Just a few quick thoughts off the top of my head...

*Find out what she wants. Is she looking for hack and slash? Roleplay? Does she have a character background/role in mind? Tailor the experience to what she is looking for. Maybe ask what interested her in learning and use that as a base.

*Allow organic play, and teach as you go. Give a very cursory overview of her character (you can smash things, you know engineering, and you have keen eyesight) and then teach her when things come up. When she wants to move, show here where the move speed is on her sheet. When she wants to attack, show her her attack options and bonuses. If she wants to look for stuff, show her where her perception skill is. For beginners, I find letting them DO stuff with their character is more important than understanding where all of it comes from.

*Friendly environment. No dumb questions, there is no "messing up" no matter what she does.

*Don't quash things outright with "you don't want to do that/that isn't optimal" if you can avoid it. Having her rogue take a few hits because she snuck ahead teaches a much better lesson than telling her "No! Never split the party!". It is always fun to see new players go about the game before the reality of 'optimized play' sets in.

Be nice, have fun!


The begginer box is probably the best possible resource for this sort of thing. THe visual way it presents the information for new players is truly invaluable to teaching new players.

That said, if you do go full rules first, I wouldnt stick to just fighter or rogue. She can just as easily play a sorceror or oracle if she has a different idea for what she wants to do. Is 'I stab it with my sword' really harder then 'I kill it with fire'? I think spontaneous casters if you help them with selection are just as easy to play as martial types for new players. After all, the thing that makes dnd fantasy is magic. Ask her questions about the kind of character she'd like to be. If she likes anything in fantasy literature/movies, she can use that. I wouldnt just hand her generic fighter guy and expect her to get into the game.

I also would avoid prepared casters, mostly because then the choices can truly be overwhelming for a new player.

Also, if you can get a friend or two to help that would be ideal. Pathfinder isnt a 1on1 game. If you can get 2 friends (yours or hers) to join, she will get a more genuine experience, and it will be easier to make the game work. Just make sure if those other people are experienced, they know the whole point of this game is to teach new players.


Thanks, Sehnder & Kolokotroni!

These are good points, and I shouldn't assume she'll be happiest playing a fighter just because there's less reading.

I will let her know what the class options are and ask her what ideas she has, if any, about what she wants to be able to excel at.

For myself I like starting with a character concept, personality, and backstory and then using the classes, skills, etc. to express that character's strengths.

I should definitely ask what character she imagines when she talks about playing, and I must use the idea of asking her to think of a book or movie character as inspiration. She's such a big fantasy movie buff that it's in her screenname (hplotrgal for Harry Potter/Lord of the Rings gal).

She will have one frame of reference---the card game Munchkin, which she taught me and then bought me. ;)

Also very good point that letting her choose what to do and teaching her as she goes will be more fun and a better teaching method.

As far as other players, I already have two in mind (one is another sister) who have just a few short Pathfinder games under the belt and won't mind the pace or focus on teaching. I will find a fourth among my acquaintances, or just NPC one.

And I couldn't agree more with the importance of not quashing the first-timer's instincts or experimental choices and their fun. I always disliked that in my first group, and these days I try to experiment more.

I will have to investigate this Beginner's Box...but most of the game will be played online as play-by-post.

Another simplifier I have used before and probably will again is to borrow from 4th ed D&D to combine certain skills, e.g., "Bluff/Intimidate/Diplomacy" become the single skill "Persuasion" and a few physical skills become "Athletics."


2 people marked this as a favorite.

"Playing this game is easy. I describe a scene, and you describe to me the thing you want to try and do in response. After that, you'll roll a d20 and add the number I tell you to, and let you know whether or not you did the thing, and what the repercussions of that thing you did are."

Sovereign Court

For the love of God dont let her read the forums!

spoiler:
J/K

I reccomend doing a char gen session with her. keep the book in front of you and ask her what she would like to do/be as an adventurer. Then give options from there until you fill in all the blanks and make a PC. Thats what I have to add to the suggestions so far.

Grand Lodge

Splode wrote:
"Playing this game is easy. I describe a scene, and you describe to me the thing you want to try and do in response. After that, you'll roll a d20 and add the number I tell you to, and let you know whether or not you did the thing, and what the repercussions of that thing you did are."

This is a good quote.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

just leave the core rule book with her, and tell her to read as much and as little of it as she wants. or just show here D20pfsrd which has links between everything.

of course i read the rule books for things for fun...

Scarab Sages

The Core Rulebook has a list of fantasy fiction literature that feeds particularly strongly into gaming as we know it, including H. P. Lovecraft, Roger Zelazny, Robert E. Howard, and of course J. R. R. Tolkien and ancient mythology. Try to have her start by reading at least 20% of what's there.

Also: It took me a long time to successfully break into regular tabletop gaming, but I finally started crossing the bridge from computer games to actual "D&D-D&D" by way of Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Planescape: Torment, and Neverwinter Nights. It was a good introduction that helped me see how the rules apply directly and practically. I've been credited as the best rules lawyer my local group's got - and this was by someone who'd evidently been playing since the very beginning - and I still credit most of it to all my time playing the computer games.


I would definitely start her off with a video game first, like Baldur's Gate. It will give her a good visual reference for what the spells look like, and adding in the art from the current rulebooks will only help.


Make sure you pay back the years of taunting by killing her off in the first encounter.

(kidding)

Scarab Sages

MagusJanus wrote:
I would definitely start her off with a computer game first, like Baldur's Gate. It will give her a good visual reference for what the spells look like, and adding in the art from the current rulebooks will only help.

Fixed that for you. :)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
magrat4 wrote:

Folks,

Something incredible has happened---today the sister who always (not unkindly) teased me about loving d20 RPG (D&D & Pathfinder) with absurd questions like "So, are you a 9th level dragon yet?" has finally asked me to teach her to play!

I've selected a module, "Crypt of the Everflame," and ordered "Confessions of a Part-Time Sorceress" from my local library (because that was my introduction to the basics).

Obviously the most important thing is for her to have fun.

I don't want her feeling overwhelmed early on, so I'll be giving her a pre-gen fighter or rogue.

Any other advice or resources on how to best introduce a complete novice to the basics?

Thanks, any input is appreciated!

Crypt of the Everflame??? That's not really a module that I'd toss a new player into. It's a great module, but we're talking serious meetgrinder territory here.

What I would recommend is downloading the PFS First Step module. You don't have to be a PFS player to play or run them. Another is Beginner Box. On the other hand last year I had an old Asian couple. (either Chinese or Korea) maybe about 120 years old when added together and their first experience was "We Be Goblins". And you'd never guess how much they got into the part.

If you want to run a home mini campaign, I'd seriously suggest you consider "Dragon's Demand". One very good thing about it is that it has major experience avenues outside of the "kill things and take their stuff" box.


I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:
MagusJanus wrote:
I would definitely start her off with a computer game first, like Baldur's Gate. It will give her a good visual reference for what the spells look like, and adding in the art from the current rulebooks will only help.
Fixed that for you. :)

Even on a computer, you are watching a moving character => video => video game.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
Torchlyte wrote:
I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:
MagusJanus wrote:
I would definitely start her off with a computer game first, like Baldur's Gate. It will give her a good visual reference for what the spells look like, and adding in the art from the current rulebooks will only help.
Fixed that for you. :)
Even on a computer, you are watching a moving character => video => video game.

video's are technically recordings, and thus not really games unless you count those cassette taped ones...


Bandw2 wrote:
Torchlyte wrote:
I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:
MagusJanus wrote:
I would definitely start her off with a computer game first, like Baldur's Gate. It will give her a good visual reference for what the spells look like, and adding in the art from the current rulebooks will only help.
Fixed that for you. :)
Even on a computer, you are watching a moving character => video => video game.
video's are technically recordings, and thus not really games unless you count those cassette taped ones...

The term itself originates from the fact that, technically, video games originally were just recordings; your actions changed which of the recorded actions you saw, but the story and ultimate outcome were preset. Thus, it comes from the idea that video games are interactive videos you use to play games with. Which is why the term is an umbrella term for console games and computer games.

Though, the etymology of it also suggests a secondary origin: That it got the term because it's not something you have to imagine or something made of physical objects, but only something you see.

The Exchange

Getting back to the crux:

When you're introducing a brand-new player, it's best to have one or two other players as well - a large group can be a little intimidating, but solo adventuring doesn't really give the full PF experience. In fact it may be best to invite whichever regular player you think would have the most patience and skill as a coach, and ask your sister to invite a friend to join her. Make it a social activity. This also allows you to cover different roles - the two novices can choose whatever class they like, and your veteran can pick a role that covers any weak spots in the party that's created.

If you have no other option than a solo adventure, recommend a class with a decent spread of skill and spell options (self-healing is particularly valuable). Druid, ranger, cleric or bard all have their strengths as solo adventurers. Avoid using monsters that can take out a character with one failed save.

Whether solo or group, I recommend starting with pre-fab characters: just make sure that she knows that if she decides to play regularly she'll get to make up her own character from square one. The array of creation options can be kind of overwhelming and it's not as fun to a novice as the actual play experience, but the anticipation of eventually being able to create her own is valuable in keeping her playing.

As for the adventure, sticking to a dungeon is probably the easiest way to get into things - the choices and goal are pretty straightforward - although if you can come up with a really fun event-based town adventure with lots of conspiracies and rooftop chases, that's good too. Decide according to 1) your own strengths as a GM and 2) the reasons for her interest. I also recommend use of the GameMastery treasure cards (or home-made equivalent), since the cards give an 'immediacy' and 'reality' to the gear, and give a sense of accomplishment as she accumulates them. Note that this doesn't have to be just magical gear - anything better than her starting gear deserves a card.


magrat4 wrote:

Thanks, Sehnder & Kolokotroni!

These are good points, and I shouldn't assume she'll be happiest playing a fighter just because there's less reading.

I will let her know what the class options are and ask her what ideas she has, if any, about what she wants to be able to excel at.

For myself I like starting with a character concept, personality, and backstory and then using the classes, skills, etc. to express that character's strengths.

I should definitely ask what character she imagines when she talks about playing, and I must use the idea of asking her to think of a book or movie character as inspiration. She's such a big fantasy movie buff that it's in her screenname (hplotrgal for Harry Potter/Lord of the Rings gal).

Well if she's a big harry potter fan, then I DEFINATELY recommend not limiting her to figher/rogue options. She probably wants to play a caster. Just remind her that a pathfinder wizard, isnt really a harry potter wizard. Thats the sorceror (Natural talent, spontaneous casting etc). Also, even though I generally dont introduce sub rules to new players there is one in particular that I think might be really important for a harry potter fan.

There is a 3rd party product called the genius guide to runestaves and wyrd wants by rogue genius games. It provides alternate rules for wands and staves as implements instead of spells in a can. They are kind of like magic weapons for casters, enhancing or altering their spells, and would provide the kind of benefit that someone like a harry potter fan might expect.

An arcane bloodline sorceror with a wand as a bonded object that she eventaully crafts into a wyrd wand would provide a very harry potter feel.

Quote:

She will have one frame of reference---the card game Munchkin, which she taught me and then bought me. ;)

Well then she knows the important parts ;). Kick in door, kill monsters, take stuff...maybe a lighthearted dungeon crawl is in order to start off.

Quote:


Also very good point that letting her choose what to do and teaching her as she goes will be more fun and a better teaching method.

Definately a good idea. Offer advise, guidance, but never lead her. Otherwise she wont learn the game.

Quote:

As far as other players, I already have two in mind (one is another sister) who have just a few short Pathfinder games under the belt and won't mind the pace or focus on teaching. I will find a fourth among my acquaintances, or just NPC one.

And I couldn't agree more with the importance of not quashing the first-timer's instincts or experimental choices and their fun. I always disliked that in my first group, and these days I try to experiment more.

I will have to investigate this Beginner's Box...but most of the game will be played online as play-by-post.

Another simplifier I have used before and probably will again is to borrow from 4th ed D&D to combine certain skills, e.g., "Bluff/Intimidate/Diplomacy" become the single skill "Persuasion" and a few physical skills become "Athletics."

I might recommend against this for a new player. It might seem counter intiutive, but the uncombined skills are often more descriptive. With the exception of gather information being part of diplomacy now, people can generally through common language look at skills to figure out which one is what they want to do.

If you start rolling them together, it gets a little less obvious.


When I create a char with a new player, generally I find that I end up badgering too much when I'm trying to get the character they want to play. Keeping to the base classes, stay away from too many options/variants, helps to keep focused. Thats how I learned to play.


Kjeldor wrote:
When I create a char with a new player, generally I find that I end up badgering too much when I'm trying to get the character they want to play. Keeping to the base classes, stay away from too many options/variants, helps to keep focused. Thats how I learned to play.

I think this really depends on the person. I've seen new players get overwhelmed with options, but I've also seen new players get frustrated when their character doesnt turn out the way they wanted it to, where as one of those options/variants could have made that happen.

The Exchange

These possibilities are the reason part of my advice was to use pre-gens: learn to enjoy playing first, learn to create characters afterward. Creating characters can be fun, of course, but not for a first-timer.

Scarab Sages

Under no circumstances should you give her a character that is higher than 3rd level to play. Ideally she should start at first level in an all-first level party.

Higher level characters are MUCH more difficult to play, she will suck at it and she will annoy the other players. This will make her not want to play.

First level characters suck anyway, so she will fit in and find it challenging and experience it as "normal"

Hope that helps.


Marinade her for three days before throwing her on the grill...

Actually talk to her about what she wants to do, then build her a character with her there explaining what everything means. Giving her a pre-gen fighter when she wants to cast spells isn't going to make her happy. Be sure to explain any limitations the character has, like how many spells they can cast, etc.


Splode: When you put it that way, I describe a scene and she reacts, it sounds so easy! It’s encouraging and you're not wrong. I just know when I first started, I treated D&D like any other game: I assumed I had a specific list of actions I could take and that I had to choose one every turn, e.g., “Attack” or “Defend” or “Attempt a Skill Roll.” It took awhile to realize that my options were limitless---loading a bow but NOT firing it for example, and then of course there’s readied actions or holding your action. I guess the other players (I have three others now, maybe four) will have to lead by example. Thanks for feedback!

Pan: Thanks, we will definitely have a one-on-one character building session, hopefully this weekend or next. If possible I'd like her final character sheet to look ultra simplified, like the pre-gens in the back of the Pathfinder modules.

Bandw2: That pfsrd site with all the interlinking is wonderful, but could be overwhelming for a first time gamer, maybe? I will loan her my Core Book (which I totally read for fun as well) to take home though, thanks.

I'm Hiding In Your Closet: As a librarian I love the idea of a reading list! To yours I would add "The Dresden Files" by Jim Butcher which is clearly influenced by D&D gaming HEAVILY in its descriptions of magic and how it works, combat scenes, etc. Thanks!

MagusJanus: Video game & visuals are interesting ideas, but neither she nor I have any video game access, except maybe some free online PC fantasy game?

CiaranBarnes: With a face like that (orc profile pic) wasn't sure you were kidding, lol.

LazarX: Having ready through the module, you are right that it's too much of a meatgrinder, and I will look at those others you suggested especially 'Dragon's Demand,' thanks. But I really dig the story of COTE, so I'll be adjusting the crypt encounters (subtracting and changing some monsters). I'll let my players I won't be sticking to the module exactly.

LincolnHills: True, I need to ask my sister what interested her in playing to begin with and if she wants a pre-fab. I too think dungeon is the way to go for beginner level fun. She'll be more focused as you said, and she'll have only the party to interact with. I also have one other novice gamer and two pros who have DM'd before in the game so far.

Kolokotroni: For that Harry Potter feel I do think she'd like a caster. I am not confident about juggling new rules for this endeavor even though the wyrd wand has great RP and gameplay potential. She wants a cleric and I'm trying to steer her toward Oracle, a kind of divine sorcerer.

I will reconsider combining the Skills. I liked that aspect of 4th ed, though, and the switch from D&D 3.5 to Pathfinder had some nice combined skills too (especially Listen/Spot into Perception).

PSusac: Thanks, you are so right about 1st level PC in an all-first level party being the only sure footing to start on. Where were you when my D&D career started as a 4th level sorcerer in a power-gamed horror compaign?! Lol, after that disaster I'd never do that to anyone.

Vod Canockers: True, I'd better find out if she has her heart set on a caster and make sure she understands the limitations. She's leaning cleric, but we haven't been able to meet up and talk about her motives and hopes. Thanks!

Okay, I hope I got to everybody's comments. I am so grateful for all the responses and discussion!


Since this is her first time, a little houseruling may be in order. My very first character was a 3.5e Cleric who was houseruled to just know and cast all the spells on the Cleric list (in truth we just had an enormously poor understanding of the rules) but point being it was fun, flashy, and above all easy to understand. I'd just let her pick a couple of spells and let her go to town. You can explain prepared casting later in life, but for now don't disuade her from Cleric. just tailor it to the experience.


I'll second LazarX's suggestion of "We Be Goblins!". It's silly, simple and characterful. You play a group of devious, daft and ever-so-slightly-evil goblins on a quest to steal some fireworks. Get her to do a silly voice, blow stuff up and accidentally learn the basic rules.

Scarab Sages

There's two popular methods that I've seen used

1) Roll-play introduction: Treat it as a boardgame, you give them a set of statistics, a board, some miniatures and a goal and walk them through the rules step by step. When looking at statistics, consider what's the least you can provide, and at key points ask "what would you like to do", and define the statistics based on the response. For example, if you describe a goblin moving to attack, and the response is "cast a spell", then the chances are high that they want to play a caster. If it's "charrrrggeeeee", then a fighter or barbarian is in order.

2) Roleplay introduction: Set aside the rules, ask them to think of a person, and how that person would behave, and then walk them through some basic roleplay scenes such as a conversation in a tavern with the barkeep, a tense negotiation with the king, or a social event with a bit of a murder-mystery thrown in. Add in a bare handful of mechanics to keep some of the tension but rules-lite is the approach.

Once you've done one, make sure you do the other soon after and you'll have covered most of the basics. The last thing should be looking at making a solid, rules-legal character, particularly with Pathfinder et al, where many of your choices are dependant on your class.

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