A bank, like Gringotts for my party?


Homebrew and House Rules


Hey,

My party of 5 now has a chest with over a ton of coins in it. They want to put it in the bank.

So are there any pre-established rules for banks I can use?


Well now that might be possible depending on your worlds/campaign's magic level. If high magic what stops the high level lvl caster from just taking it vs adventure. In lower magic the normal bank stuff will work. But also you will need to ponder the social changes a bank brings about. Banks did not really arrive on earth till later in our history due to the notion of trusting a stranger with your valuables and who/what insures them if the bank is robbed.

EDIT: after a Google search I found a few threads but other then in homebrew world's I have not seen them sorry


A bag of holding, secret chest, or portable hole is the most reliable way for the party to do this.

Alternatively, if I were a high level wizard in a high Magic setting, an 'on demand' bank is easy to run. Dig an underground Vault somewhere, and make some succubus Simulacrums 'tellers' and a portable hole. Charge a subscription fee to 'link' someone to a teller via profane gift, and you can allow people to request access to their account in minutes from anywhere. Their Deposit goes into a Hole, which a teller can deliver anywhere on the plane instantly


Problem I have with a "vault" is once I get my item from it can't I legend Lore item to tell me where the vault is or other shenanigans. Bout the best I have done was a mercantile church running a currency only bank with transactional papers and the holder of said papers was owner of said money.

EDIT: spelling dang tablets auto spelling


I'm not worried about the bank security. It can be guarded by Cthulu or something silly if the matter comes up. They're a good aligned party, and should not be robbing it anyway. They're level 7 now, but are leveling up every 2nd or 3rd week, so will definitely hit the mythic levels by the end of the year.

I was thinking of rules of how they operate on the party level. Banks exist in the Kingdom building rules, so they should have material for the party side stuff.


KrispyXIV wrote:

A bag of holding, secret chest, or portable hole is the most reliable way for the party to do this.

Alternatively, if I were a high level wizard in a high Magic setting, an 'on demand' bank is easy to run. Dig an underground Vault somewhere, and make some succubus Simulacrums 'tellers' and a portable hole. Charge a subscription fee to 'link' someone to a teller via profane gift, and you can allow people to request access to their account in minutes from anywhere. Their Deposit goes into a Hole, which a teller can deliver anywhere on the plane instantly

Hey look, the game rules for Eftpos.


To avoid a mudslide of problems, make sure things like bank robberies and counter fitting are never used by the party, nor affect them, unless you want you game to be about these things. Sometimes it is ok to use them as part of the plot, but make sure it ends there.


Caimbuel wrote:
Problem I have with a "vault" is once I get my item from it can't I legend Loretta item to tell me where the vault is or other shenanigans. Bout the best I have done was a mercantile church running a currency only bank with transactional papers and the holder of said papers was owner of said money.

Hallow plus dim anchor locks out most such attempts if your Vault is suitably remote (like a hundred miles underground).

This is, for the record, how I assume most Magic shops in games I run are assumed to function as well... No physical goods to steal on site, 2 day delivery guaranteed on items under 4k gold, and everything is run by one immortal wizard with a name that probably rhymes with 'Amazon'.

I had an idea to write something up about this whole system at one point, but eh.


The common way to handle this sort of things is a bag of holding or handy haversack.

By ton of coins do you literally mean 2000 lbs? If that is the case the PCs should really go convert all the coins into plantinum pieces, that should really decrease the weight and volume and then put it in a bag of holding. No need for a bank really. It's probably safer on them, unless the bank uses a lot of magic to keep the valuables safe.

My usual solution to needing a secure area is a dead magic plane permanencied. Add some golems (adamantine golems if you like) to keep the place secure (Orders to kill anyone who isn't on an approved list). Also use a circle of teleportation (outside the dead magic zone) to transport valuables between banks.


KrispyXIV wrote:

A bag of holding, secret chest, or portable hole is the most reliable way for the party to do this.

Alternatively, if I were a high level wizard in a high Magic setting, an 'on demand' bank is easy to run. Dig an underground Vault somewhere, and make some succubus Simulacrums 'tellers' and a portable hole. Charge a subscription fee to 'link' someone to a teller via profane gift, and you can allow people to request access to their account in minutes from anywhere. Their Deposit goes into a Hole, which a teller can deliver anywhere on the plane instantly

Some people might balk at accepting a profane gift from a demon just to have convenient access to gold ;-)

The easiest way to avoid having to cart around thousands of gold is to by a gem worth however much gold you have. That's why enemies always have gems on them when you kill them. An evil cultist doesn't have a sapphire because he's admiring its beauty, you know?

Other than that, handy haversack is your best option.

Now, as far as banks go, the teleporting thing is much more complex than needed. Even in our modern time, banks are not required to have on hand at one time time ALL of the money that their customers have deposited. Why couldn't the same thing apply to a medieval bank?

You make one company that has banks setup around the world. You make a deposit and get a piece of paper that has an arcane mark from a "teller" on it and an amount of gold submitted. You may redeem that for gold at any bank in the world.

Asking for 1st level sorcerers to cast a cantrip is a lot better than demons, IMO, and achieves the same end.


Hey now, Simulacrums of demons. They are harmless. If you're squeamish about the profane gift, you can always use sending or a wondrous item that uses sending or talk a bank rep (who does have a gift, and can call in for you) to make a withdrawal/purchase


The banking system as we know it probably doesn't exist. However there are money changers in Absalom if I recall correctly. Trade bars are the standard currency in many major countries when making large purchases (like trading). Convert it to trade bars.

Scarab Sages

Invest your funds in The Blue Church.


The idea that modern banks have not been around long is ridiculous.
Babylon had banks with letters-of-credit thousands of years ago.
It is much easier to cart around a bank's letter-of-credit than platinum or gems.

Dark Archive

Eberron had one.


Claxon wrote:

The common way to handle this sort of things is a bag of holding or handy haversack.

By ton of coins do you literally mean 2000 lbs? If that is the case the PCs should really go convert all the coins into plantinum pieces, that should really decrease the weight and volume

Where do you recommend they convert large amounts of currency from one form to another?

Dark Archive

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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Go find the nearest temple of Abadar, assuming your game is set on Golarion. The typical Abadarian temple is usually a de facto bank and moneychanger as well.


Mulet wrote:
Claxon wrote:

The common way to handle this sort of things is a bag of holding or handy haversack.

By ton of coins do you literally mean 2000 lbs? If that is the case the PCs should really go convert all the coins into plantinum pieces, that should really decrease the weight and volume

Where do you recommend they convert large amounts of currency from one form to another?

Any place that sells things should have currency you can buy/trade for. It may have a small fee (relative to the amount being traded/purcahsed) but shouldn't be a big deal. Or as someone else suggested, churches of Abadar should be willing to exchange money, and I guess they serve as banks as well though I'm less familiar with that aspect of the Abadarian church.


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Brf wrote:

The idea that modern banks have not been around long is ridiculous.

Babylon had banks with letters-of-credit thousands of years ago.
It is much easier to cart around a bank's letter-of-credit than platinum or gems.

Depends on how much we're talking about. I can fit an astonishing number of gems into a belt pouch. But I agree that banks have been around for a very long time.

I think part of the issue is that, while "banks" have been around, "modern banks" have not, because we're lumping a whole lot of services together and I'm not sure what the OP wants.

* Goods storage. If you just want to put a chest with a 2000 pounds of coins in it, talk to your local goldsmith, or anyone who works with valuable goods, and ask if you can use their safe. Or dig a hole in the ground and cast appropriate spells over it.

* Goods exchange. Alternatively, talk to the same goldsmith and see if he needs 2000 pounds of coins in exchange for a few ounces of diamonds. I'm sure something can be worked out.

* Investment. If you want to make money on your money (i.e. earn interest), the goldsmith won't be able to do that for you, but I'm sure any merchant consortium would be happy to sell you a part interest in a ship or something. Be careful what you invest in, as liquidity will be an issue.

* Wealth transport. If you've moving across the country and need to move tons of coins, you can either convert them to gems, or you can find a merchant with business interests in both places and have him write you a letter-of-credit.

* ATM machine, aka wealth transport ANYWHERE. This is a little bit harder. You basically need to find someone who has business interests everywhere. National governments will rarely be able to do this, but major merchant houses (think of the Rothschild family, for example, with 5 brothers in five major capital cities) or major churches (think of the Knights Templar) might be able to perform that role. But you're unlikely to find anyone who has a branch office on the Elemental Plane of Ice Cream.


Orfamay Quest wrote:
I can fit an astonishing number of gems into a belt pouch.

But gems are not "trade goods" that you can exchange without commission.

If you use the standard rules for trading, you will lose half of your money by converting to gems.


Brf wrote:
Orfamay Quest wrote:
I can fit an astonishing number of gems into a belt pouch.
But gems are not "trade goods" that you can exchange without commission.

There is no exhaustive list of trade goods in the game. CRB just says "As a means of comparison, some trade goods are detailed on Table: Trade Goods."

So I suppose if you decide that you want to be a Richard to your players, that's your perogative, but don't blame the rules for it.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

"Gems and jewelry can be bought or sold at their total value, and are sometimes used as currency" link


Ah-ha. So they _are_ trade goods.
I remember that was one of the problems we always had back in v1, where we would lose half our cash converting to gems.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

They could buy a house with a vault and stash the money there. That's what my players did when they realized the mom and pop operation at their hometown felt nervous holding 10,000gp. Strangely, when they finally did get a house, they never put anything in the vault.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

What the hell is Gringotts?


blackbloodtroll wrote:
What the hell is Gringotts?

I had to look it up earlier myself, apparently it's from Harry Potter.

Sczarni

Uhm, If you're looking for slightly less magical solution, how's about this:

Passwords, everyone opens an account (of sorts) around major cities and provides a password or some other way to access sums of money. A simple password could be enough for small sums, for bigger ones could be solving a puzzle the character designed or had designed for him by bank members, that needs to be solved in a (really short) time.

The usual adamantite walls. In order to prevent naughty wizards and the like from teleporting, line the walls with Blightburn Paste. (It's from Kobolds of Golarion, it's essentially teleportation blocking radioactive residue) This also helps with blowing up or burrowing through the walls, you have to make incredibly hard saves when as you keep drilling through it.

A construct or a really unpleasant undead guarding stuff inside the vault. Bonus points for technomagical undead dragon, because that's overkill.

Custom Made cantrips:
-First one to provide essentially undetectable watermarking on the "bank's notes". Arcane Mark and Mask Dweomer combined somehow. And don't you just love witches with expensive bank suites.

-Second one to read the first one. Bonus security points (and banking taxes) if the second one is created so it can read "arcanemarks" from the place where the note say the party is coming from.

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*In case of loss of memory, service may be provided by our friendly staff. In case of you trying to go into someone else's vault, service may be provided by our friendly Tarrasque, Fluffy.

"Tarrasque Teabagger" for Schroedinger Wizards, AM's, and professional evil overlords.

Tired of reshaping reality just so you have a place to store your ill-, good-, or neutral-gotted gains? Your Treasury is overflowing with precious metal, yet you are too busy defeating Pit Fiends to worry about invesment's security?

For 10% of the income, your money is only accessible after passing three security checkpoints, first one in a Negative Energy Plane, second one in a Positive Energy Plane, third one in a Null Magic Plane, guarded by Undead. Just to be sure. Despite the 24 hours needed by each checkpoint, new arcana, brought to you by Aperture Arcane, it only takes 3 hours for you to access any or all of your priceless artefacts. At any time, a specialist Diviner will show up at a specified location, just to make sure that it's really you. You also receive a gilded pen.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Claxon wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
What the hell is Gringotts?
I had to look it up earlier myself, apparently it's from Harry Potter.

Like every Pathfinder player know obscure reference to material within the damn Harry Potter universe.

If I come to the rules board, I am not going to reference material in The Silmarillion, and not even tell anyone the name of the book.

Sorry, I have been "expected" to know details of these novels, simply because I play TRPGs. Usually met with looks of shock, and loud scoffing, when I note I am not familiar with the material.

This, and "Frozen".


Is it safe to assume you are just trolling for funsies since the original post clearly states his question with out needing to understand the reference in the thread title?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Joe loves Rules wrote:
Is it safe to assume you are just trolling for funsies since the original post clearly states his question with out needing to understand the reference in the thread title?

Just a mild complaint.

Are you trolling?;)

Scarab Sages

blackbloodtroll wrote:
Claxon wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
What the hell is Gringotts?
I had to look it up earlier myself, apparently it's from Harry Potter.
Like every Pathfinder player know obscure reference to material within the damn Harry Potter universe.

Gringott's is an easy reference.

I'm still waiting to see if anyone recognized the source for The Blue Church reference.


blackbloodtroll wrote:
Joe loves Rules wrote:
Is it safe to assume you are just trolling for funsies since the original post clearly states his question with out needing to understand the reference in the thread title?

Just a mild complaint.

Are you trolling?;)

Hehe! Yeah a little, huh? :)


Orfamay Quest wrote:
* ATM machine, aka wealth transport ANYWHERE. This is a little bit harder. You basically need to find someone who has business interests everywhere. National governments will rarely be able to do this, but major merchant houses (think of the Rothschild family, for example, with 5 brothers in five major capital cities) or major churches (think of the Knights Templar) might be able to perform that role. But you're unlikely to find anyone...

Well in a PF fantasy world there is instant communication through a wide variety of spells/magic items and ring gates even allow the transportation of coins so, while not exactly cheap, a form of ATMs could exist. For example, a banker with enough money (12,500gp for the permanency spell) could be invited to join the telepathic bond circle of a banking cabal and instantly check up on any letter of credit issued by any other member of the cabal and the head office of the cabal could use a crystal ball to consult with other banking cabals for a fee. While this is expensive it is not impossibly so when you consider a party of 4 PCs at level 3 are expected to have 12,000gp in wealth.

Grand Lodge

The way I handle banks and national currency in my Golarion games is the Church of Abadar.

The church of Abadar sets the international standard of what a gold piece is and is worth, it sets the value of items such as spices, silk, eggs, and swords. And nearly all of their temples, churches, and shrines act as banks.

This explains why every country's currency is worth the same amount, and why prices are the same everywhere. On the front of the coin is an image chosen by the country, and on the back is a symbol chosen by the church. All coins are actually minted by the church.

I also have market days opened and closed by a cleric of Abadar. He wanders the market and randomly checks vendors and buyers to be sure they are not cheating by using shaved coins or whatever.

For banks, the grandest temples in a country's capital serves as the county's national bank. Smaller churches and even shrines act as banks in smaller communities. They lend money and collect interest. They protect valuables and cash.

There just are not many people who are willing to risk the wrath of one of the most popular, and powerful deities. Especially in a world where the god's are so active.

I also use Abadar banks for long distance "bank notes." A character traveling from Absalom to Janderhoff can deposit cash in Absalom and receive a certificate of deposit. When he arrives in Janderhoff he presents the certificate of deposit to the local church of Abadar and receives credit worth that 1/2 that amount, until verified (usually 2 weeks to a month). No one in my games has attempted fraud due to the perceived severe repercussions that could follow.

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