alchemist barbarian gestalt


Advice


Hi,
I am here asking of what would you suggest on the said build. We start at lvl 6, and i have decided of going with insane melee capabilities. What i keep wondering tha should i go for feral mutagen, or save a discovery for other stuff and go with greatsword. Additional help with rage powers, discoveries, feats and skill allocation is also very much appreciated.

Thanks in advance, sorry for bad english.


If you go alchemist for more melee capability, you might want to look at the master chymist. He can be pretty beastly in melee, with bonus damage to natural and simple weapons, and advanced mutagens, which can increase your damage dice for natural weapons, let you grow in size, and which also includes greater/grand mutagen. It's a prestige class from the APG. If you go this path, I would use natural weapons for sure! (2d8 bite and 2d6 claws? yes please!)

For feats, I'd go with power attack and raging vitality for sure. The first increases you damage massively, the second makes sure you don't die immediately when knocked unconscious.
For discoveries, greater and grand mutagen are pretty much mandatory for melee alchemists (though you should pick them as advanced mutagens), as is feral mutagen. Spontaneous healing is pretty good, though a bit less on a master chymist.
For advanced mutagens, I'd pick growth mutagen, restoring change, furious mutagen, and greater/grand mutagen, although draconic mutagen is also cool.
I can't really recommend any rage powers, even though beast totem is often recommended. You already have claws and natural armor, and if you take the beastmorph archetype, you can get pounce at level 10 (the same as greater beasttotem!). You will have to take 10 levels of alchemist before going master chymist, although that seriously delays the advanced mutagens (furious at 12, greater at 14, grand at 16?).
Finally, you might want to consider the vivisectionist, which trades bombs for sneak attack. You should talk to your GM about how the chymist's bomb progression interacts with sneak attack, but this can give you a good melee damage boost, in exchange for something I think you don't really want.

[edit] I just thought of something else: the main problem with superstitious barbarians is that they have to save against spells from allies; as an alchemist, you have your own extracts, which you can drink normally in rage. This allows you to heal and buff pretty effectively in combat.


The problem with mutagen is that it is not available for every figth unless your team take a one houre break after every figth. So baseing your figthing style around feral mutagen is gonna be painfull.
The Drunken Brute archtype Can be good for your barbarian Half.
I suggest getting a Big weapon.
The Master chymist is not a bad plan if you plan to rely a lot on mutagen.


I would go with natural attacks, but not neglect greatsword. You would have to spend a feat on MWP to use a greatsword, however. You at least need something for when you can't use mutagen, maybe not greatsword.

Normaly it's hard to get enhancement bonuses to natrual attacks, but with Alchemical Allocation you can do it just fine. Just buy a potion of Greater Magic Fang, that's 3000gp for a +5 to hit and damage.

Though you will have to spend two standard actions for it, unless you do some tricks with action economy, which is totaly doable with the Accelerated Drinker trait and Spring Loaded Wrist Sheath (for quick access to Greater Magic Fang potion).
I don't know if you still need to do it in two rounds, since Alchemical Allocation states

Alchemical Allocation wrote:
If you consume a potion or elixir on the round following the consumption of this extract

It could mean it doesn't work if you drink both the same round.

You could also try to get it working with a Tumor Familiar (Discovery) as well.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I find it amusing that I've written a guide for both sides of this gestalt. Honestly even in a gestalt, I can't see more than 3 levels of Master Chymist, it's just very mec for a lot of things. I'm assuming you'll be going Beastmorph Vivisectionist on the Alchemist side and Invulnerable Rager on the Barbarian side.

I'd focus more on melee friendly feats, probably go Half Orc with Sacred Tattoo and the Fate's Favor trait, along with Shaman Apprentice for your Half Orc racials to get free Endurance. Half Orc is fine for Alch too, since the bonus is flexible. Take the Human Favored Class Bonus to boost your Superstitious to god like levels, obviously.

For the Barb side, I'd go with the following for your Rage Powers

2nd: Superstitious
4th: Witch Hunter
6th: Spell Sunder
8th: Reckless Abandon
10th: Eater of Magic

For Alch, you're far more in the clear. Probably the biggest boon from this set up is not needing the Beast Totem to get Pounce, as you'll pick it up via Beastmorph, which gives you the ability to take the magic hater line from the Barbarian school of awesome. So with that in mind, Alch is here to boost action economy, which is the only thing you're lacking in.

2nd: Feral Mutagen
4th: Infusion
6th: Tumor Familiar
8th: Whatever
10th: Also whatever

Post Tumor/Infusion, you're basically golden, so go with whatever makes you happy.

For feats, I'm thinking

1st: Power Attack
3rd: Diehard
5th: Combat Expertise
7th: Stalwart
9th: Potion Glutton
11th: Improved Stalwart

The feats are to maximize your DR, since you don't really need anything else from the Alch side of things. I wish there was a quicker way to get Stalwart running faster, since CE is garbage by itself. If you're willing to stall out for one level, a dip on the Barb side for Unbreakable Fighter would save you quite a few feats.

This is just a rough build though, I'd have to know more to make a more informed decision. But realize you really only need to endgame with a 16 Int to get all your extracts, so Strength really is your primary stat for this build. Just pick up some headbands as you level up, and you should be fine.


Wow... Amazing feedback! I forgot to mention not to include too much on ultimate books, as none of us has them and gm has that kind of not yaving not giving basic policy. All non crb and apg stuff is by request. Also potions of high cl are not allowed either, so it is safe to say that i prefer ption buffing discoveries. Also i dont want to go multiclassing too much either, preferrably none. As a side info, our party consists of npc sorcerer\oracle and pc druid\monk. Also amulet of mighty fists seems to cost a small fortune...

what is this potion glutton feat? I can't find it from d20pfsrd.com. Does power attack have additional non-cleaving feats that could be useful? Why Tumor familiar?

Vivisectionist has been approved for me already.

Sorry for lack of info, thanks in advance

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

i just played a barbarian/vivisectionist in a gestalt game that ran from 2nd to 10th, he was pretty epic. i took the vivisectionist archetype for 2 reasons: we had a mindchemist/wizard who was a big bomb user, and we had other melee guys i knew i could flank with (plus my Int wasn't high enough for much bonus damage or good DCs). i used a big 2hander, which worked out amazingly well, but we weren't allowed to gestalt PrCs (if you wanted to take one it would be the only class you got at those levels)- master chymist might actually make for a viable natural attack build.

i took preserved organs for several of my discoveries, and it saved my life more than once (including one time i took normal damage from a coup de grace after failing a save vs hold person, lol). a lot of what works really well is fairly obvious... enlarge person, bull's strength, rage, and mutagen is +14 strength plus reach; i took combat reflexes and the rage power for +1 AoO and never regretted it (well, most of the time combat reflexes would have been plenty, but the 2 or 3 times i got to use every AoO i was pretty glad i had both). you have massive damage per hit so anything like haste that gives you an extra attack is awesome.

an even crazier combo, if you're into crazy, is ragechemist/wild rager. i played one as a multiclass character for a one-shot and it was nuts, i can only imagine what it would be like as gestalt. you get an even larger Str bonus and an extra attack from the archetypes. the hilarious downside is that every round you take damage you have to save or take a stacking penalty to Will saves, and whenever you kill someone you have to make a (ever-dropping) Will save or get confused. if you're gonna go this route make sure someone in the party has deep slumber or some other Will save way to stop you if you turn on the party.


Again, I forgot to mention that we use 20 point buy.
No traits. No hero points.

And I am starting to lean not to use natural attacks, even being better, I sort of am bored of those kinds of alchemists.

Liberty's Edge

If taking Master Chymist, don't go more than one level before you have 10 of Beastmorph, you want that Pounce.

Also, at lower levels, you could take Infuse Mutagen if you wanted for some emergency Mutagen time. Very potentially useful.

Personally, I wouldn't go Reckless Abandon, it's overkill with Come And Get Me...which you'll want at 12th (along with, presumably, Combat Reflexes at 13th). If headed into higher levels, and doing the Stalwart thing (wehich should obviously be combined with Invulnerable Rager), you should also consider the Dragon Totem stuff. That'll net you even more DR, Energy Resistance, and flight.

Also, if you have enough Con, you might want to consider Raging Vitality instead of Diehard...there's a lot of overlap in functionality there.

In terms of skills, Perception, Knowledge (Nature), and Craft (Alchemy) are obvious and should likely be maxed. Beyond that...I'd go with whatever you want in terms of skills.

With 20 point-buy, stats might look something like this:

Str 18 (16+2) Dex 12 Con 14 Int 14 Wis 12 Cha 7

If you want Raging Vitality, make that Con 15 and Wis 10. If you don't, you could swap Dex and Con, I suppose.


What is so great about come and get me? It seems sort of meh to me.

Liberty's Edge

TeroSNS wrote:
What is so great about come and get me? It seems sort of meh to me.

For every attack you receive, you get a bonus attack. You need Combat Reflexes and some Dex to really take advantage of it...but with a Dex belt, you could have Dex 16-18 pretty readily and effectively double your number of attacks in a turn. Taking what amounts to two turns is worth some defensive sacrifices. Though, thinking about it, if you go this route, Dex 14, Con 12 may be the way to go. Or Dex 14, Con 14, Int 12, if you really want to focus on the Barbarian thing...


Would the rage power that grants extra AoO be too much with combat reflexes?

Liberty's Edge

TeroSNS wrote:
Would the rage power that grants extra AoO be too much with combat reflexes?

Eh...not really, but it's probably not worth taking given that it's only 1 AoO. You be better served by grabbing Ghost Rager instead, or starting on the Dragon Totem stuff.


TeroSNS wrote:
What is so great about come and get me? It seems sort of meh to me.

It gives you a attack for every one that attack you that is good.

But i suggest you take somthing like 4 levels in each of the classes and then go on with only one. The Real good stuff is at the later levels and by keeping both classes under 10 you will lose out on Lots of the good stuff. I would take barbarian/alchemist 4/4 and then go Alchemist from there. Human: str 16, dex 14, con 14, int 14 all level bluffs in Str.
Either Inv rager or Drunken brute archtype or both since they stack. Your bombs will be behind but not devastating so so you May spend a few discoveryes on smoke and stink and the like to have a good short ranged option. Strength surge and no escape seems like good rage powers.
As a weapon i would get a great weapon of some sort and never look back.
And never make your builtplans to simulate you will have several rounds to buff before a figth.


Cap. Darling:
This is a gestalt character, two classes, get both class abilities, choose the better result on duplicate statistics (hp, saves, bab, etc.)


Ohh sorry. Even better. I Will get back with some sort of advice later then.

Scarab Sages

Stick with a basic build. 4 bar / 2 alch
Take an extra arm discovery to use a shield which adds to AC
Basic STR mutagen plus the extra nat armor.
Pick a two handed wep you like. - Maybe a Chain flail, allows reach and adjacent.
Enjoy huge STR bonus and power attack. with a 26 str (rage + mut) = +18 dam !
It you're not raging, take the Grenadier path and use alchemical items on your weapon...but probably not needed.

The alchemist really helps for the lack of heavy armor getting at least a +1 shield and the +2 nat armor is another +5 to AC.

feats -
1 Chain Flail
3 Combat Reflexes (adds action economy)
5 Power Attack

Eidt - vivisectionist would also be excellent...


For a gestalt i would go with a traditional Two handed barbarian built and keep the mutagen for emergcies it is only 1 houre a Day at level 6. And it tales one to brew. Get smile bomb and stinky bomb and eventually fast bomb as well. You Will have rage to last most figths and a bit of alchemical buff Can Go a long Way. If you take a human dont forget heart of the fields and the human favored class bonus to supestisious. Eventually Mutagen Will be up all Day but dont count on it before level 14.
Str is your main stat and the only one you should boost with level ups.
Even with a Big sword beast totem is still the Way to go.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / alchemist barbarian gestalt All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.