Advanced Class Guide: Known Class Archetypes


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Necromancer wrote:
Secret Wizard wrote:
Honestly, unless something surprises me, I'm utterly disappointed in the ACG and not really looking forward to it except for the Daring Champion archetype (yezzz mountless cavalier! Any more info of it?).

Daring champion loses heavy armor and all shields, save the buckler. The mount is lost to using weapon finesse with one-handed-to-light piercing melee weapons. Can swap CHA for INT to qualify for combat feats (is also considered to have weapon finesse for this purpose).

Gains a +1 dodge bonus at level three and scales up one every four levels afterwards (caps at +5 at level nineteen). Gains swashbuckler panache and a few related deeds at level four. More deeds at eleven.

Capstone: Criticals with one-handed or light piercing melee weapons automatically confirm (when they threaten). The critical modifier for such weapons also increases by one.

That's pretty hot. The whole CHA for INT seals it though...

I'm going with a Kobold Order of the Basilisk Daring Champion 3/Bloodrager 1/Lore Mystery Oracle 1/PIT FIGHTER 10.


Hmm, a goblin daring champion.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor

Necromancer wrote:
It's a weird choice, but I still think the worst-name archetype is the brown-fur transmuter with steel hound running a close second.

Ouch, I don't think it's that bad. At least it's only second worst :|

Sometimes great names for abilities or archetypes are tough, particularly when you have to come up with a pile of them. In my defense: Stygian Slayer


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Dennis Baker wrote:
Necromancer wrote:
It's a weird choice, but I still think the worst-name archetype is the brown-fur transmuter with steel hound running a close second.

Ouch, I don't think it's that bad. At least it's only second worst :|

Sometimes great names for abilities or archetypes are tough, particularly when you have to come up with a pile of them. In my defense: Stygian Slayer

Forget the name... Now I can transmute other people! Barbarian unicorns! Bardic birds! This is something I've wanted for ages.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor

QuidEst wrote:
Dennis Baker wrote:
Necromancer wrote:
It's a weird choice, but I still think the worst-name archetype is the brown-fur transmuter with steel hound running a close second.

Ouch, I don't think it's that bad. At least it's only second worst :|

Sometimes great names for abilities or archetypes are tough, particularly when you have to come up with a pile of them. In my defense: Stygian Slayer

Forget the name... Now I can transmute other people! Barbarian unicorns! Bardic birds! This is something I've wanted for ages.

Well mine was Steel Hound not brown-fur transmuter... personally, I don't think brown fur is bad at all. Not sure why 'brown fur' though, I don't get my PDF until tonight!!


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I think Steel Hound (or Steelhound) is a fine name for a gun-detective. It's just that with actual hounds made of steel being an actual possible threat, I can't help but think of mechadogs


Ok now I want mechadogs.


Dennis Baker wrote:
Necromancer wrote:
It's a weird choice, but I still think the worst-name archetype is the brown-fur transmuter with steel hound running a close second.

Ouch, I don't think it's that bad. At least it's only second worst :|

Sometimes great names for abilities or archetypes are tough, particularly when you have to come up with a pile of them. In my defense: Stygian Slayer

Worse in this case is entirely based on perspective.

I meant the name-vs-what-it-actually-does kind of "worse". Then again...it's always a problem when naming things like this. Everyone's got their own personal history of books-read, films-watched, games-played, music-heard, etc. Trying to find something that sounds evocative of a certain theme is tough due to everyone's seperate stack of known references. Names are always the hardest part (in my experience) and I don't envy that part of anyone's work.

I saw "steel hound" and got the knee-jerk image of a detective with a clockwork hound construct companion. Knowledge of existing class balance dismissed this theory and I started reading. I like what it does...if that counts...

Now I'm curious, what inspired steel hound?

As for stygian slayer, I think it fits; dark, shadowy, underworldy.

shrugs Again, individual perspective.


What's the deal with the Picaroon (swashbuckler with guns!)? Would it make for an excellent pirate vibe? What's it do mechanically and what's it lose out on?


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My knee-jerk aesthetic and mechanics expectation list (this does not represent all or any archetype abilities):

Inspired Alchemist - alchemist with an inspiration pool
Blade Adept - bladed weapon proficiency and bonded "sword"
Blood Arcanist - burn health to add to arcane reservoir + penalty to healing magic
Brown-fur Transmuter - permanently take on bestial aspects
Eldritch Font - warlock?
Elemental Master - elemental specialist
Occultist - spirit/shaman things
School Savant - be a wizard!
Spell Specialist - nonracist spellbinder?
Unlettered Arcanist - no more quills, no more spellbooks, no more teachers dirty looks...?
White Mage - anti-undead necromancer-thing
Flame Dancer - a fire bard?
Voice of the Wild - Pied Piper?
Blood Conduit - blood magic this time?
Blood Rider - crazy mount with weird bloodline options
Crossblood Rager - two-bloodlines mongrel
Greenrager - rage with treants maybe?
Metamagic Rager - what-it-says-on-the-tin
Primalist - elemental specialist?
Rageshaper - change spell range/shape?
Spelleater - anti-mage rager
Steelblood - high damage reduction, juggernaut
Untouchable Rager - incorporeal rager
Exemplar - higher damaging unarmed strike?
Mutagenic Mauler - alchemical brawler
Shield Champion - they seriously made a shield specialist...
Snakebite Striker - poisonous brawler?
Steelbreaker - sunder-happy brawler
Strangler - what-it-says-on-the-tin
Wild Child - a raging brawler?
Daring Champion - knights on the high seas?
Ecclesitheurge - (was not sure what to expect at all)
Feral Shifter - werewolf transition across levels
Nature Fang - (again, was not sure what to expect at all)
Wild Whisperer - control incorporeal undead!!!
Martial Master - the fighter to end all fighter-vs-caster threads
Mutation Warrior - alchemical fighter; possibly mutant fighter
Ace Bolt - laserslinger!?! (I have no rational explanation for this)
Divine Hunter - anti-undead hunter
Feral Hunter - get a larger, meaner animal companion
Packmaster - what-it-says-on-the-tin
Primal Companion Hunter - elemental companion?
Verminous Hunter - bugmaster! Yay!
Sacred Huntsman - hunter-meets-cleric?
Sanctified Slayer - anti-undead
Empiricist - skill bonus? No idea...
Infiltrator - stealth and disguise improvements
Mastermind - get minions? Please get minons...
Sleuth - better combat capability
Spiritualist - gumshoe to the undead?
Steel Hound - gain a clockwork construct companion
Eldritch Scion - combat-focused warlock?
Monk Kata Master, Wildcat
Psychic Searcher - no spirit companion + telepathy related perks
Spirit Guide - superior spirit companion
Warsighted - warrior-mode with martial proficiencies
Holy Guide - holy investigator? Cadfael :D?
Temple Champion - paladin + brawler?
Divine Tracker - another ranger-meets-cleric hybrid
Hooded Champion - robs from the rich and gives to his personal retirement fund the poor
Wild Hunter - feral ranger + rage powers
Counterfeit Mage - scroll specialist and glyphbreaker extraordinaire
Underground Chemist - (again, was not sure what to expect at all)
Animist - possess people?
Possessed Shaman - possess yourself...wait
Speaker for the Past - initiative bonus and time effects
Spirit Warden - undead management
Unsworn Shaman - no boundaries, no companion, mix and match with restrictions
Visionary - spirit bard?
Witch Doctor - healer or zombie maker
Fated Champion - Herald of Rerolls
Herald of the Horn - Brass specialist
Spell Warrior - get spell combat?
Totemic Skald - great...these things are back...
Bounty Hunter - tracking and net specialist
Cleaner - a slayer with a really modern name?
Cutthroat - stealth focused
Deliverer - (once more, was not sure what to expect at all)
Grave Warden - another anti-undead archetype
Sniper - master of all critical arrows?
Stygian Slayer - fiend companion?
Vanguard - defense-focused (no idea why)
Eldritch Scrapper - this time warlock, maybe?
Mongrel Mage - lots of itty-bitty bloodlines
Naturalist - druid becomes a summoner
Spirit Summoner - shaman becomes a summoner
Daring Infiltrator - Bond. Errol Bond.
Flying Blade - whirling ball of ranged death
Inspired Blade - toggle detective mode
Mouser - a...cat?
Musketeer - Yay, classics!
Mysterious Avenger - stealth-based, gaining sneak attack
Picaroon - I don't speak whatever language this is...
Champion of the Faith - didn't I see this name back in 3.0...(got distracted)
Cult Leader - mind control and disguise goodies
Disenchanter - anti-curse warpriest? Exorcist?
Divine Commander - improved mass spells
Forgepriest - fire-focused?
Sacred Fist - brawling priest
Hex Channeler - use hexes on large numbers of enemies/allies
Mountain Witch - goat familiar improvements? No idea.
Exploiter Wizard - what-it-says-on-the-tin
Spell Sage - bardic knowledge? untrained skill checks
Spirit Whisperer - possession? possessed spellbook?

I didn't keep score, but a few things really surprised me with regard to their names.


Battle Cupcake wrote:
What's the deal with the Picaroon (swashbuckler with guns!)? Would it make for an excellent pirate vibe? What's it do mechanically and what's it lose out on?

Basically, a dual-wielding pistol-and-blade enthusiast (definitely a pirate theme). Loses weapon proficiency and swashbuckler finesse. Panache is altered to accomodate firearms and a few deeds are gained.


Battle Cupcake wrote:
What's the deal with the Picaroon (swashbuckler with guns!)? Would it make for an excellent pirate vibe? What's it do mechanically and what's it lose out on?

Gains proficiency with one-handed firearms, regains panache on killing blows and crits with one-handed firearms and light or one-handed piercing weapons, loses some deeds for gunslinger style ones, including losing parry and riposte, can finesse light and one-handed piercing, gets TWF for free with light and one-handed piercing in one hand, one-handed gun in other. You'll still need some way to get a free hand to reload the gun though.

edit: ninja'd


Sounds like imma dualwield sword cane pistols/pistol daggers with gun twirling!

I hope it does get DEX to damage though.


Nope

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor

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Necromancer wrote:
I saw "steel hound" and got the knee-jerk image of a detective with a clockwork hound construct companion. Knowledge of existing class balance dismissed this theory and I started reading. I like what it does...if that counts...

*Shrug* the mecha pup has tons of appeal so I can see that.

A hound is a tracker... an investigator is a tracker... Granted the parallels are thin, but there you go.

As for steel, that's meant to be a reference to the weapon.

I'm still not sure where I could have gone with a name for this guy that would be more evocative/ descriptive. It's an investigator with a gun... IMO a good concept for an archetype but a tough call on naming.

Sometimes you have a good name and the make the concept follow, other times its the reverse, you have a great concept and need a name.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

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Gunshoe?

(Course, that would be like actually calling the Magus a Stabracadabra.)


Calth wrote:
Battle Cupcake wrote:
What's the deal with the Picaroon (swashbuckler with guns!)? Would it make for an excellent pirate vibe? What's it do mechanically and what's it lose out on?

Gains proficiency with one-handed firearms, regains panache on killing blows and crits with one-handed firearms and light or one-handed piercing weapons, loses some deeds for gunslinger style ones, including losing parry and riposte, can finesse light and one-handed piercing, gets TWF for free with light and one-handed piercing in one hand, one-handed gun in other. You'll still need some way to get a free hand to reload the gun though.

edit: ninja'd

Prehensile Tails for sure. Monkey Goblin Picaroon has a ton of appeal.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor

Ross Byers wrote:

Gunshoe?

(Course, that would be like actually calling the Magus a Stabracadabra.)

I think that one actually crossed my list but struck me as entirely too anachronistic and also... seems like a joke name.


Dennis Baker wrote:
Necromancer wrote:
I saw "steel hound" and got the knee-jerk image of a detective with a clockwork hound construct companion. Knowledge of existing class balance dismissed this theory and I started reading. I like what it does...if that counts...

*Shrug* the mecha pup has tons of appeal so I can see that.

A hound is a tracker... an investigator is a tracker... Granted the parallels are thin, but there you go.

As for steel, that's meant to be a reference to the weapon.

I'm still not sure where I could have gone with a name for this guy that would be more evocative/ descriptive. It's an investigator with a gun... IMO a good concept for an archetype but a tough call on naming.

Sometimes you have a good name and the make the concept follow, other times its the reverse, you have a great concept and need a name.

spends a few minutes trying to see if I could come up with a better name...sees "Gunshoe" below and wastes more time thinking about a gunslinger-investigator moonlighting with unarmed strikes between shots and the prospect of kicking someone with a shotgun blast...realizes this is why I never finish any projects...-_-

Also, I think I might have been expecting a construct companion due to so many class + animal companion archetypes early on.


Ross Byers wrote:

Gunshoe?

(Course, that would be like actually calling the Magus a Stabracadabra.)

Continues odd daydream about a gunslinger detective wearing a prosthetic leg containing a functioning shotgun. Pictures the Gunshoe kicking through a door and shooting mooks on the other side and having difficulty getting twelve-gauge leg out of the hole in the door. Sees his sidekick, Stabracadabra, charge in ahead and sneak attack enemies using wands as melee weapons.


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I CAST STAB!

STAB!

STAB!

... It's a cantrip!


God I can't wait to see the Steelblood in action. Would have been cool if he got the ability to have Metal Revelation-like abilities akin to the Oracle.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor

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Stab
level 0 Bard, Magus, Sorcerer/ Wizard, Witch
Casting Time 1 standard action
Duration 1 round, see text.
Range touch
Target creature touched
Saving Throw No; Spell Resistance Yes

A stabbing thing of pure force appears in the caster's hand. If the caster strikes a target, the stabber deals 1d6 points of force damage and the spell ends.


Add a d6 force indefinitely every round? Yes please. Is this cantrip only available to the abracastabra archetype? Still totally worth it for mook control.


I'm not sure some of these archetypes are worth the tradeoffs (though I often feel that way), but I will say the sheer variety and the level of intermixing of abilities from many different classes exhibited here is pretty inspired. Some combinations that I wouldn't have even considered.


Torbyne wrote:
Add a d6 force indefinitely every round? Yes please. Is this cantrip only available to the abracastabra archetype? Still totally worth it for mook control.

Looks like it will require Close Range, as the description posted has it as a Ranged Touch spell.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor

It was a 2 minute spell, but I'd say it's balanced against other cantrips. It affects more targets than disrupt undead, but with a range of touch it's not exactly caster friendly.

Magii would love it though since it would give them a zero level spell which deals a bit of damage to use while spamming spell combat, so it would probably not have magus in the listed classes.


Could anyone give me any information on the stygian slayer? Thanks! :)


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Trades 4th level talent for Invis level/4 per day. Counts as having Wizard illusion spells and some darkness spells for spell trigger items, and gets gaseous form at 10.


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[tangent]

Well, I feel a bit foolish. I've been teasing two of my players with ACG names of classes/archetypes and both separately asked me if the equivalent of "can 'steelhound' be stacked on the empiricist because any good detective needs guns".

._. so it's just me then...

[/tangent]


What are the abilities of the archetype animist shaman? And what did he have to lose?


PhD. Okkam wrote:
What are the abilities of the archetype animist shaman? And what did he have to lose?

The animist shaman is a f*&%ing cool concept: the animist sees spirits everywhere and can talk conditions out of characters. For example, say the fighter's fatigued, an animist can make a diplomacy check to convince the spirit causing the condition to leave (thus removing the condition). Plus, the animist starts off with new spells.

The animist can also exorcise the effects of magic jar/domination/etc. The animist's familiar is used during magic jar (and any other possession spell) and makes the effort a bit safer.

Additionally, the shaman later learns to interact with the incorporeal without spell aid; this ability improves over the next few levels including the capstone (ethereal jaunt at will and astral projection once a day).

The animist loses spells gained from spirit companion; second, eighth, tenth, twelfth, and eighteenth level hexes; manifestation.


Thank you. And what spell he gets? Shaman - diplomat is an interesting concept for me


PhD. Okkam wrote:
Thank you. And what spell he gets? Shaman - diplomat is an interesting concept for me

The animist gets speak with animals, skinsend, speak with plants, malfunction, dream, speak with stone, control construct, trap the soul, and soul bind. These spells replace the ones gained from the shaman's spirit choice (light version of an oracle's mystery).*

*Edit: this is a correction from my previous post...

Necromancer wrote:
The animist loses spells gained from spirit companion...

I'm still trying to memorize these classes...

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