Each character at an open location summons and encounters a Zombie Minion henchman. If any character does not defeat the Zombie Minion, the Zombie Horde is undefeated. If all Zombie Minions are defeated, the Zombie Horde is defeated.If Ranzak evades and passes his to Valeros, Ranzak did not defeat the Zombie Minion henchamn. So the, is there any character that did not defeat the Zombie Minion henchman? Yes, Ranzak. So the sentence "If any character does not defeat the Zombie Minion, the Zombie Horde is undefeated" would activate and the barrier would be undefeated.I am less confident about this one, as the wording is contradictory if read this way. The last sentence says that the horde is defeated if all zombie minions are defeated.
If we are interpreting that "if any character does not defeat" includes people who did not fight by evading, whether Merisiel's power, Ranzak's power, spells/items that allow you to evade, etc. then we should also interpret that it means characters at a closed location that did not even have the opportunity to fight. By a strict reading, they are a character that "did not defeat a Zombie Minion".
Hmmm...Yeah, that does seem a bit contradictory. I think there are two more things that lend credence to Ranzak not being able to pass the buck here:
1. The part about how they were defeated was an errata addition because there was no clear indication that the opposite of "If any character does not defeat the Zombie Minion, the Zombie Horde is undefeated." was true. The opposite would really have been "If every character who encounters a Zombie Minion henchman does not defeat it, the Zombie Horde is undefeated." but that is really long and probably wouldn't fit on the card. Taking the errata part out and reading the original text, I'd think the reading would indicate Ranzak can't evade his encounter and still render the barrier defeated.
2. That text is meant to curb evading. It is nice that some things keep the evading in check, like these barriers and the Shrine to Lamashtu. (Wouldn't it be great if Ranzak encountered a great blessing at the Shrine and passed the buck to Kyra? Both characters would take the damage.)
Isn't it just like Ranzak to mess with the rules though? I guess we'll have to see what more authoritative comments come.
Consider both sentences. The first sentence specifies that only characters at open locations summon zombies. The next says "if any character does not defeat THE zombie henchman". This clearly refers to the specific zombie henchman that they summon for themselves. If it said "If any character does not defeat A zombie henchman", you might have a case for your interpretation, but not in this case.
That is an excellent point.
Each character at an open location summons and encounters a Zombie Minion henchman. If any character does not defeat the Zombie Minion, the Zombie Horde is undefeated. If all Zombie Minions are defeated, the Zombie Horde is defeated....
Consider both sentences. The first sentence specifies that only characters at open locations summon zombies. The next says "if any character does not defeat THE zombie henchman". This clearly refers to the specific zombie henchman that they summon for themselves. If it said "If any character does not defeat A zombie henchman", you might have a case for your interpretation, but not in this case.A fair point. I would still maintain that evading the encounter does not cause the Horde to be undefeated. If ANY character does not defeat THE Zombie Minion, indicates that /any/ character could defeat the minion.
If Ranzak passes the Zombie Minion that he encounters to Valeros, and Valeros defeats the Zombie Minion, the Horde asks the question "Was THE Zombie Minion defeated by ANY character?" The answer is yes. If the answer is yes for all of the Zombie Minions, the Horde is defeated.
I do think there are quite a few borderline calls involved with Ranzak's power to evade and push the bane to someone else. Since this is one of the powers that defines Ranzak and makes him so enjoyable, I would love to see the design team way in on their thoughts, not only on the right interpretations for these cases, but also on the design process for this power and their thoughts and tweaks as it was developed and implemented.
OK. After thinking on this, I believe that Ranzak CAN pass the buck to someone else at his location and Zombie Horde still be defeated.
In order to pass the buck, Ranzak first evades his encounter. Then, that SAME zombie is encountered by another character at the location. This is a situation that hasn't been possible until now. The conditioned for defeat of the Zombie Horde is that all summoned zombies are defeated. So, as long as SOMEONE defeats all summoned zombies, you're all good. It just hasn't been possible up till now for someone to evade a summoned card, and then for that same card to the be defeated by someone else.
Heh, I think you pretty much just said what I said. If I had realized this thread had gone to page 2 I could have saved myself some typing. :)
More Ranzak goodness..
If Ranzak passes the Henchman to Valeros, and Valeros stomps it (because... he's Valeros) who makes the check to close the location? We have been playing it that Valeros does, as the Henchman card says "if defeated you may immediately attempt to close" but with all this other discussion, I am starting to question which effects of cards will remain with Ranzak and which go with the evaded bane to his vict... umm... comrade.
I kind of hope that a power like this is not in the class decks. While it is very cool, I think it may confuse things in organized play.
Chief Technical Officer
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We have amended the resolution for Zombie Nest and Zombie Horde. We care that the zombies get beaten more than we care about who beats them, so if Ranzak passes his zombie off to somebody else, that's fine.
So did that change make it through the process in time to be included in the errata cards at Driver Thru? I'm uh... asking for a friend... :)
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