Wail of the Banshee damage?

[dreamer3469]

I have checked all over and am still not finding 100% clarification on the damage output by Wail of the Banshee. Is it 10pts per caster level total, to be disbursed among targets until the pool of damage is gone or is it 10 pts per caster level, per target? The spell itself states:

School necromancy [death, sonic]; Level sorcerer/wizard 9

Casting Time 1 standard action

Components V

Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)

Target one living creature/level within a 40-ft.-radius spread

Duration instantaneous

Saving Throw Fortitude negates; Spell Resistance yes

When you cast this spell, you emit a terrible, soul-chilling scream that possibly kills creatures that hear it (except for yourself). The spell affects up to one creature per caster level, inflicting 10 points of damage per caster level. Creatures closest to the point of origin are affected first.

Now, I could see that being interpreted either way. If the caster were for example 20th level, they can affect up to 20 targets and do up to 200pts of damage. In the first interpretation the closest target to the origin point would take up to the full potential of 200 pts on a failed roll and if the rule is that the 200 pts is the damage total, then what ever is left over bounces to the next target that fails the save until either the damage pool is used up or the number of targets that could be affected has been affected. I can understand this interpretation; however for being a 9th level spell it makes it extremely low-powered because unless there are a bunch of low-level peasants that shouldn’t be fighting a level 20 in the first place, damage distributed in this way for this spell would maybe affect between 1 and 3 characters as at high enough level you are looking at having at least 120-150 hp per character and that 200pt total would be used up fairly quickly The other interpretation makes it far more deadly in that each creature caught in the radius has the potential to be either killed or at least severely damaged by whatever the caster’s max damage potential is. So for that same 20th level caster the second way makes it possible to down nearly all 20 targets (with many failed saves of course) by causing a potential 200pts of damage to each target. So it feels like the spell’s damage should be calculated as 10 pts per caster level, per target. Otherwise why is this spell such a high level and why would you bother taking it when there are plenty of others that could be far more devastating?

[MurphysParadox]

I didn't even know there was a question here. The wording in the game, time and again, is that damage is a per-target value unless the spell specifically says the damage is divided.

So in your example, 20 creatures EACH take 200 damage. It is just the nearest 20 creatures.

[dreamer3469]

MurphysParadox wrote:

I didn't even know there was a question here. The wording in the game, time and again, is that damage is a per-target value unless the spell specifically says the damage is divided.

So in your example, 20 creatures EACH take 200 damage. It is just the nearest 20 creatures.

Thank you. We had some discussion about it at my last game as this spell was used and when I went looking on the messageboards I kept finding mixed answers. We played with it affecting all the creatures in the area, I just wanted to clarify before our next game that we did it correctly

[Captain Wacky]

Creatures closest to the point of origin are affected first.
This suggest a damage pool that is absorbed by the closest creature until dead and moves to the next closest and so on until all damage has been absobed. That's how it's been play at all of my tables, and why I don't know anyone who actually uses it. You are correct, it's extremely underpowered and somewhat nonsensical.

A Banshee's wail is supposed to kill anyone who can hear it, or just frighten them if they're far enough away. Does the sound stop at the point where the last hit point is taken? I'll have to take another look but IIRC the 3.x version was no save, which is slightly better, but still underpowered.

[Captain Wacky]

MurphysParadox wrote:

I didn't even know there was a question here. The wording in the game, time and again, is that damage is a per-target value unless the spell specifically says the damage is divided.

So in your example, 20 creatures EACH take 200 damage. It is just the nearest 20 creatures.

Ahh, that makes much more sense. Thank you.

[Lifat]

The spell text suggests to me that it is meant to do a collective 10 dam/lvl and that it isn't per creature. But common sense and the fact that the spell would be severely underpowered suggests that it is meant to do the full damage to each target.
I would always rule that it is meant to do full damage to each target.

[Michael Gentry]

The "creatures closest to the point of origin are affected first" clause applies to the number of targets affected (1 per level), not to the total amount of damage inflicted.

[Sjommieboy]

So I´m playing my BBEG game tonight, and I´m planning on using Wail of the Banshee tonight. I feel like 200 damage is on the low side for a level-9 spell, but I also DEFINITELY don't want to hear that I hit them with 600-800 damage in one round illegally afterwards.

Can I use WotB as if it does 200/level/creature or not? If it's too unclear I'll swap it out with mass Icy Prison.

[Pupsocket]

Context, wording and history all agree: full damage to each target.

[Midnight_Angel]

Sjommieboy wrote:

So I´m playing my BBEG game tonight, and I´m planning on using Wail of the Banshee tonight. I feel like 200 damage is on the low side for a level-9 spell, but I also DEFINITELY don't want to hear that I hit them with 600-800 damage in one round illegally afterwards.

10 per level to every creature affected, with a number of creatures affected equal to your level.

In 3.x, this spell was 'save or die'. In Pathfinder, like pretty much all other insta-kill spells (with the exception of Phantasmal Killer and Weird), it has been toned down to a measly 'save or take some damage' effect, which, in the light of PF's hit point inflation, makes it pretty sub-par for a level 9.

[Sjommieboy]

Thanks for your response guys! Yeah, I just realized that without it applying to everyone it would just be a worse Finger of Death (which only has partial save and no sonic resistance), and that's a level-7 spell.