Are Male Witches called Witches in YOUR games?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Witcher

or as suggested Hexenmeister ==> Hexmaster


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What we need is gender specific titles for other classes. I hereby submit barbarienne, fightress, rouge and paladona.


Bardess, monkina, druidette, ninjess, cavalriess


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Sissyl wrote:
rouge

*blink*

*twitcchhh*

GRRRRRAGGGGGGGHHHHHH


It should probably be ninjako.


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Lamontius wrote:
Sissyl wrote:
rouge

*blink*

*twitcchhh*

GRRRRRAGGGGGGGHHHHHH

POWER SOURCE: ANGER

AUXILIARY FUEL CELL TANKS AT 88% AND CHARGING


Alchemissa? Investigatrix?


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Mecharagezilla wrote:
Lamontius wrote:
Sissyl wrote:
rouge

*blink*

*twitcchhh*

GRRRRRAGGGGGGGHHHHHH

POWER SOURCE: ANGER

AUXILIARY FUEL CELL TANKS AT 88% AND CHARGING

SYSTEMS COMING ONLINE

COMMENCING NERD RAGE IN
3
2
1


*hides*


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WE HAVE LIFTOFF


Starbuck_II wrote:
I call Make Witches Witchalock (Warlock + Witch) myself.

All witchaloks are hermaphroditic androgynites.


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RJGrady wrote:
Bardess, monkina, druidette, ninjess, cavalriess

"Ninjette." It should be "Ninjette"


Disciple of Sakura wrote:
RJGrady wrote:
Bardess, monkina, druidette, ninjess, cavalriess
"Ninjette." It should be "Ninjette"

Only when she's from New Jersey.


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Cavalriess is cumbersome. How about cavalyn?

Summonita? Brawlora?

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

Without getting into too much detail, the term 'witch' in its late Medieval and early modern usage was gender neutral. In my games, male witches are just called witches. Moreover, 'warlock', though rooted in the 14th century, doesn't find much purchase in English until 1750 onwards, so, for my taste, it lacks the historicity to be used meaningfully as a gendered version of witch.

Also, I believe ninjettes are more aptly called kunoichi.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Luthorne wrote:

Male witches being called warlocks is something from some fantasy settings, not a general rule. It's about as 'correct' as it would be to call female wizards 'witches', which also pops up in several fantasy settings (and not just Harry Potter). You can, of course, have such a distinction be part of your setting if you want to (after all, there is a precedent for it in some fantasy settings), but it's certainly not more or less correct to do so.

To expand on this it's worth noting that "class" itself is as much a gaming construct for our convenience as hit dice, and d20 modifiers. Until 3rd edition, the terms witch, sorcerer, magus, prestidigitator, and whatnot were roleplaying and story names that could be applied to anyone who showed evidence of magical powers.

Gaming constructs are how we the players and GM interact with the gaming world. That's a far cry from how the residents of that world interact with each other.


Mikael Sebag wrote:


Also, I believe ninjettes are more aptly called kunoichi.

Well, kunoichi implies a specific type of ninja, equivalent to what is known in the modern spy world as a "honey pot." But in a certain genre, the term is used for female ninjas.

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

RJGrady wrote:
Mikael Sebag wrote:
Also, I believe ninjettes are more aptly called kunoichi.
Well, kunoichi implies a specific type of ninja, equivalent to what is known in the modern spy world as a "honey pot." But in a certain genre, the term is used for female ninjas.

Interesting! Thank you for expanding on that. Looks like learned something new today. :D


Daenar wrote:
Really, isn't a male witch called a Warlock? Does that not apply in pathfinder? Does anyone else find it odd to refer to a character as a gender specific class title? Do you think it odd that out of all the classes only this one is gender specific in name? Apologies for all the question marks but the subject has raised questions.

If we're talking Medieval or Early Modern Europe or Colonial America, witch is used to refer to both men and women.


Kain Darkwind wrote:
Men can't be witches, just like women can't be wizards.

Actually, if we want to look at IRL writing, wizard is also a term that was originally gender neutral.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:
Kain Darkwind wrote:
Men can't be witches, just like women can't be wizards.
Actually, if we want to look at IRL writing, wizard is also a term that was originally gender neutral.

Until relatively recently though, those characters were all male.


LazarX wrote:
Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:
Kain Darkwind wrote:
Men can't be witches, just like women can't be wizards.
Actually, if we want to look at IRL writing, wizard is also a term that was originally gender neutral.
Until relatively recently though, those characters were all male.

Well, wizard is generally taken positively, and until relatively recently a woman with power was very likely to be a villain, and therefore expected to bear a more negative term. All the positive female magic users from Medieval and Early Modern writing that I can think of up the top of my head are supernatural entities, not human spellcasters.


Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:
Daenar wrote:
Really, isn't a male witch called a Warlock? Does that not apply in pathfinder? Does anyone else find it odd to refer to a character as a gender specific class title? Do you think it odd that out of all the classes only this one is gender specific in name? Apologies for all the question marks but the subject has raised questions.
If we're talking Medieval or Early Modern Europe or Colonial America, witch is used to refer to both men and women.

I thought we were talking 'completely imaginary, no connection to real world history game worlds'.


it has not come up yet but I would call male witches by the class name and save the name "warlock" for the class from 3.5 in case I ever saw a version of that I really liked.

Shadow Lodge

Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:
Kain Darkwind wrote:
Men can't be witches, just like women can't be wizards.
Actually, if we want to look at IRL writing, wizard is also a term that was originally gender neutral.

I'm presuming this is a Discworld reference, where with a single exception, the magic of that world does divide itself that way >_>

Shadow Lodge

eggplantman wrote:
it has not come up yet but I would call male witches by the class name and save the name "warlock" for the class from 3.5 in case I ever saw a version of that I really liked.

Try this one! =)


*sighs* Well, I am still proud of fightress and summonita.


Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:
Kain Darkwind wrote:
Men can't be witches, just like women can't be wizards.
Actually, if we want to look at IRL writing, wizard is also a term that was originally gender neutral.
Until relatively recently though, those characters were all male.
Well, wizard is generally taken positively, and until relatively recently a woman with power was very likely to be a villain, and therefore expected to bear a more negative term. All the positive female magic users from Medieval and Early Modern writing that I can think of up the top of my head are supernatural entities, not human spellcasters.

Circe was called a witch in some early translations. Was she a villain? Initially, yes, although she eventually gives advice on getting past the Scylla and Charybdis.

She is definitely not a villain in the Aronautica, and possibly not in the Telogonus.

Orthos wrote:
eggplantman wrote:
it has not come up yet but I would call male witches by the class name and save the name "warlock" for the class from 3.5 in case I ever saw a version of that I really liked.
Try this one! =)

Yes, that one:)


Orthos wrote:
Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:
Kain Darkwind wrote:
Men can't be witches, just like women can't be wizards.
Actually, if we want to look at IRL writing, wizard is also a term that was originally gender neutral.
I'm presuming this is a Discworld reference, where with a single exception, the magic of that world does divide itself that way >_>

I was actually just stirring the pot. I don't personally divide classes by gender roles, but it might be interesting to have a world where that was the case. And not just with witches and wizards, but all the classes.


137ben wrote:
Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:
Kain Darkwind wrote:
Men can't be witches, just like women can't be wizards.
Actually, if we want to look at IRL writing, wizard is also a term that was originally gender neutral.
Until relatively recently though, those characters were all male.
Well, wizard is generally taken positively, and until relatively recently a woman with power was very likely to be a villain, and therefore expected to bear a more negative term. All the positive female magic users from Medieval and Early Modern writing that I can think of up the top of my head are supernatural entities, not human spellcasters.

Circe was called a witch in some early translations. Was she a villain? Initially, yes, although she eventually gives advice on getting past the Scylla and Charybdis.

She is definitely not a villain in the Aronautica, and possibly not in the Telogonus.

Circe isn't from the time periods I've been considering, though.


Zhayne wrote:
Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:
Daenar wrote:
Really, isn't a male witch called a Warlock? Does that not apply in pathfinder? Does anyone else find it odd to refer to a character as a gender specific class title? Do you think it odd that out of all the classes only this one is gender specific in name? Apologies for all the question marks but the subject has raised questions.
If we're talking Medieval or Early Modern Europe or Colonial America, witch is used to refer to both men and women.
I thought we were talking 'completely imaginary, no connection to real world history game worlds'.

Except that we are of course talking about terms, which are drawn from real world history.

Otherwise we might as well be talking about the thriost class.

Dark Archive

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Deadmanwalking wrote:

Warlock has the unpleasant connotation of having been the term for a traitor or oathbreaker, and etymologically coming from the word for liar, while witch has no such unfortunate connotation and was originally use for men anyway.

It's not a huge deal, but it definitely leaves a bad taste in some people's mouths.

In that vein, 'Warlock' (defined as Oathbreaker, regardless of whether or not it was historically) would be a great name for a Witch archetype based around someone who has broken with whatever entity they initially made their Pact with.

Just as Witch is a unisex title, Warlock would also be the unisex title for Witches who have broken their Pact.

Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:
Kain Darkwind wrote:
Men can't be witches, just like women can't be wizards.
Actually, if we want to look at IRL writing, wizard is also a term that was originally gender neutral.

Since the PF/D&D term for a lady Wizard is in fact 'Wizard,' and not 'Wizardette' or 'She-Wizard,' I think Kain was being sarcastic.


I go with the metagame construct is different from the roleplay construct... so what ever the player determines the character views himself as.

On a side note, what makes this a homebrew discussion vs. a general discussion?


Jeremias wrote:
DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
14 sided die wrote:
Jeremias wrote:
This issue gets much stranger in german. Sorcerer is generally translated as "Hexenmeister" (witch master) and the german term for a male witch is "Hexer", for a female witch it would be "Hexe". So, as you see, you have it really easy.
I shall hereby call ALL male spellcasters I ever play Hexenmeisters, because that may be the best word ever
I approve.

Oh how much I want to hear now how you would pronounce "Hexenmeister"...

I imagine the voice of David Giuntoli from Grimm... :D

Hex-en(like the way the letter N is pronounced)-my-ster(pronounced like the end of the word hamster). A female would be Hexenmeisterin ("in" pronounced like in English).

I think of witches as "battle mages," because hexes like healing seem very well suited to mass combat. One healing hex witch could heal 600 NPC warriors in an hour...


My male witch called himself a "hermit."

In the end, most class names aren't really in-game 'names' for what a person does. Most of them are just rules descriptors.


"Expert treasure hunter."


thejeff wrote:
Zhayne wrote:
Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:
Daenar wrote:
Really, isn't a male witch called a Warlock? Does that not apply in pathfinder? Does anyone else find it odd to refer to a character as a gender specific class title? Do you think it odd that out of all the classes only this one is gender specific in name? Apologies for all the question marks but the subject has raised questions.
If we're talking Medieval or Early Modern Europe or Colonial America, witch is used to refer to both men and women.
I thought we were talking 'completely imaginary, no connection to real world history game worlds'.

Except that we are of course talking about terms, which are drawn from real world history.

Otherwise we might as well be talking about the thriost class.

My point was that claiming how it was used in any point in real world history is irrelevant. The history of the real world and the history of a game world have no correlation whatsoever.


SamWitches

The Exchange

beej67 wrote:
...In the end, most class names aren't really in-game 'names' for what a person does. Most of them are just rules descriptors.

Yeah, the Oracle is particularly guilty here. You'd think according to the name that they'd get augury, divination and commune for free at the appropriate levels, but it turns out the majority of them have very little skill at seeing the unseen, knowing the unknown or scruting the inscrutable.


Sissyl wrote:
*sighs* Well, I am still proud of fightress and summonita.

There already is a term for a female fighter: Amazon.


Ow. You are a brave man. :-)


Or an incredibly stupid one ;)


Female samurai are sometimes called onna-bugeisha, which are wives and mothers of samurai who train in combat arts in order to help defend the home/castle, when their sons/husbands are away. So though not exactly the same roles as a typical samurai, female combat trained members of the samurai caste did exist and had a specific name.


Lincoln Hills wrote:
beej67 wrote:
...In the end, most class names aren't really in-game 'names' for what a person does. Most of them are just rules descriptors.
Yeah, the Oracle is particularly guilty here. You'd think according to the name that they'd get augury, divination and commune for free at the appropriate levels, but it turns out the majority of them have very little skill at seeing the unseen, knowing the unknown or scruting the inscrutable.

Or, you know, at least have perception as a class skill.


Witchaloks. :)


Ashram wrote:
Witchaloks. :)

Those are not male, though! They're hermaphroditic androgynites!


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
gamer-printer wrote:
Female samurai are sometimes called onna-bugeisha, which are wives and mothers of samurai who train in combat arts in order to help defend the home/castle, when their sons/husbands are away. So though not exactly the same roles as a typical samurai, female combat trained members of the samurai caste did exist and had a specific name.

And while we are at it, female ninja are referred to as kunoichi.

Scarab Sages

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I play a male witch from the Mwangi jungles. He has never heard the term 'witch'. He is a 'Speaker for the Spirits'. He's also okay with shaman.


If there's a witcher then there's a wizardess.


Daenar wrote:
Really, isn't a male witch called a Warlock? Does that not apply in pathfinder? Does anyone else find it odd to refer to a character as a gender specific class title? Do you think it odd that out of all the classes only this one is gender specific in name? Apologies for all the question marks but the subject has raised questions.

All spellcasters in my campaigns are known by the following titles depending on their individual preferences, cultural norms, and/or associations, regardless of class.

Arcanist, Sorcerer, Wizard, Witch, Warlock, Mage, Magician, Incanter, Mentalist, Spell Shaper, Spell Weaver, Invoker, Psychic, Force User, Oracle, Shaman, Hedge Mage, etc.

Titles such as Abjurer, Enchanter, Evoker, Transmutor, Illusionist, Necromancer, and Conjurer are generally used by casters who associate strongly with a particular school of magic. While wizards commonly go by these titles with a sense of pride and natural association for being a specialist, other casters such as sorcerers who identify strongly with a particular school of magic may claim or be granted similar titles. For example, a sorcerer who emphasizes enchantments may insist on being called an enchanter, while a cleric who deals heavily with the undead may be referred to as a necromancer.

All of these norms also extend to psionic classes as well. Most laymen aren't going to recognize the differences between a psion, wizard, or sorcerer, or druid. They just see that they're throwing fire and lightning around like confetti paper at a birthday party and telling reality to go make them a sandwich.

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