Best race for a wisdom monk (zen archer)?


Advice


I am about to build a Zen Archer with some swith hitting abilities.

What is the absolute best race for this?

Let's consider three options here:
a) Only core races (humans, dwarfs, elfs...).
b) Featured races (drows, aasimars, orcs...).
c) Uncommon races (duergars, svirfneblins...).

Although the c) will almost sure be ruled out.

Thanks!

Liberty's Edge

As a switch hitter, Dwarf is likely your best core race, though Human is also always solid (and Half-Orc or Half-Elf aren't half bad either).

Of the featured races, Oread is basically perfect (and better than any of the uncommon ones, IMO).

Scarab Sages

A: Dwarf. Wisdom bonus, Monk speed overcomes the speed penalty, Con is always useful, you dont care about the CHA penalty
B: Garuda Blooded or Archon Blooded Aasimar. Bonus to Wisdom, and decent SLAs. Flight with feats.
C: Varana. Great stat bonuses, Prehensile tail, and Tree Hanger+climb speed gives some great option for shooting in safety.

Edit: Forgot about Oreads.


I have to say Dwarf is by far the best race for Monk. Bonus to Wisdom and Con, penalty to your only real dump stat. Bonus to saves vs spell make your already rediculous saves even better and help make you a disgusting caster killer. Their reduced speed is negated by the monks bonus speed. And who doesn't like darkvision. And with feats they can even get a bonus to natural armor, which helps make the decision later on between Amulet of natural armor and Amulet of mighty fists.


I vote Tengu. Dex and Wisdom additions, with a minus to Con. If I'm an archer, I'd want Dex over Con. And Wisdom only helps a monk. Less MAD with these bonuses in place.

Edit:

Nevermind, at 3rd level, Wisdom takes the place of Dex. However, flavorwise, a archery focused monk who is also a crow just appeals to me in ways I can't explain.


A: Dwarf
B: I like Archon Aasimar. Right bonues, live a long life, damage reduction and other perks.
c: I love the Svirfneblins. I have been playing one, but I never told anyone except the DM, so they all think I am the worlds first serious, and easily offended Gnome. Wisdom fits, plus non detection at will, but great stealth, bonus to hit. I think they are great. My Svirfneblin Inquisitor is by far the most fun I have ever had with any character.


Baghtu wrote:

I am about to build a Zen Archer with some swith hitting abilities.

What is the absolute best race for this?

Let's consider three options here:
a) Only core races (humans, dwarfs, elfs...).
b) Featured races (drows, aasimars, orcs...).
c) Uncommon races (duergars, svirfneblins...).

Although the c) will almost sure be ruled out.

Thanks!

1) Dwarf

2) Dwarf
3) Dwarf

It's the Dwarf.

Also, by switch hitting I assume you mean switching your bow to the other hand and firing from the other side? An archery stranger if you will. There is just about no reason for the Zen Archer to waste feats on melee when he already threatens with his bow from an early level.


I second the comments about the variant blooded Aasimar. One nice bonus is immunity to charm/dominate/hold person effects since they're outsiders instead of humanoids.


JoCa wrote:
However, flavorwise, a archery focused monk who is also a crow just appeals to me in ways I can't explain.

I think the idea of a tengu drawing his bow and hitting his own beak with the bow string is entertaining. Then he has to decide if he is going to turn his head to the right and side-eye his aim, or if he is going to look down the side of this bow unable to get his eye lined up for the shot, and the whole thing looks super awkward. Once he has the funds raised he immediately gets a nose job with his local transmuter and a polymorph.

Man, I could lose whole rounds of combat just describing to the party how he's trying to get his stuff together and shoot but he can't aim. This actually seems like a rather hilarious character.


Oni spawn Tiefling, bonus to Str and Wis, penalty to Cha, but who cares about that. SLA for some Arcane Strike cheese too.


My wife is currently building a Zen Archer for a game. She picked an interesting choice. But its better for pure archer build than switch hitter.

Vishkanya:
Bonus Dex - Nice for Archery
Bonus Cha - Meh
Pen Wis - However Zen Archers spend less time in melee.
Bonus to Perception, Stealth and Escape Artist
Low Light Vision
Can poison arrows as a swift action. Causes Dex Damage, which makes future shots more successful when using flurry of blows.


This is one of the few archetypes-classes were I'm not sure i could say there is even a top 3 let alone a best. My reasoning for this is because you can go about it a handful of ways and none of them is clearly best. For example many dont like to be hit at all and for others they like to have a strong CON. That is only 2 ways to build a zen archer and can anyone tell me which one is decisively better? I can't.

But I shall make an effort anyway though these 3 shall be from all sources and race in no particular order....

1) half orc. The king of saves among monks and is among the greatest of all builds with his fates favored and sacred tattoo. The +2 to wisdom is needed and good too. Darkvision.

2) dwarf. Attributes in great places, resistance to spells and SLAs make this comparable to half orcs saves. Better than half orc in caster heavy games but weaker in some others. Darkvision.

3) hell spawn tiefling. +2 to con and wisdom at price of -2 to charisma is good for a monk obviously. The resistances to some energy is good and the potential to have +1 or +2 natural armor from armor of the pit feat or alternate racial traits is strong also. Even have darkvision.


2)I agree with Oni-Spawn Tiefling. You get +2 str/wis, -2 chr; Alter self (for +2 str and scent), +4 bluff, prehensile tail, darkvision 60ft and resistances


1). Human or Dwarf. Human has great skill points and can trade out his bonus feat for 3 skill focus. Dwarf has the best stats for the job.
2). Oread? Has good monk stats and interesting racial abilities if you trade out unwanted stuff for cool stuff from the Advanced race guide.
3). Don't like most uncommon races, so I have little knowledge here.


Adam B. 135 wrote:

1). Human or Dwarf. Human has great skill points and can trade out his bonus feat for 3 skill focus. Dwarf has the best stats for the job.

2). Oread? Has good monk stats and interesting racial abilities if you trade out unwanted stuff for cool stuff from the Advanced race guide.
3). Don't like most uncommon races, so I have little knowledge here.

Dual Talent Human, now you also have the best stats for the job...


strayshift wrote:
Adam B. 135 wrote:

1). Human or Dwarf. Human has great skill points and can trade out his bonus feat for 3 skill focus. Dwarf has the best stats for the job.

2). Oread? Has good monk stats and interesting racial abilities if you trade out unwanted stuff for cool stuff from the Advanced race guide.
3). Don't like most uncommon races, so I have little knowledge here.
Dual Talent Human, now you also have the best stats for the job...

I don't think dual talent is worth giving up both the feat and the skill points.

Sczarni

Adam B. 135 wrote:
strayshift wrote:
Adam B. 135 wrote:

1). Human or Dwarf. Human has great skill points and can trade out his bonus feat for 3 skill focus. Dwarf has the best stats for the job.

2). Oread? Has good monk stats and interesting racial abilities if you trade out unwanted stuff for cool stuff from the Advanced race guide.
3). Don't like most uncommon races, so I have little knowledge here.
Dual Talent Human, now you also have the best stats for the job...
I don't think dual talent is worth giving up both the feat and the skill points.

It can be, but only for the Zen Archer. You're a Zen Archer so you don't need the bonus feat. If you don't dump your INT you're probably getting 4 skill points per level anyway.

I opted for the Focused Study alternate trait so I could pump Sense Motive, Perception, and Stealth.

Scarab Sages

If you are getting bonus feats from other sources(Monk, Fighter, Ranger), Dual Talent can be very worthwhile, especially for MAD classes. Zen Archers have more bonus feats than any other class.


Krodjin wrote:
It can be, but only for the Zen Archer. You're a Zen Archer so you don't need the bonus feat. If you don't dump your INT you're probably getting 4 skill points per level anyway.

The thing is that if you are trading out the real perks of being human (besides some favored class options that don't apply here) for an extra +2, you might as well go for a race that already has the ability scores you want plus other cool stuff.

Scarab Sages

chaoseffect wrote:
Krodjin wrote:
It can be, but only for the Zen Archer. You're a Zen Archer so you don't need the bonus feat. If you don't dump your INT you're probably getting 4 skill points per level anyway.

The thing is that if you are trading out the real perks of being human (besides some favored class options that don't apply here) for an extra +2, you might as well go for a race that already has the ability scores you want plus other cool stuff.

True, but that might not always be an option. There may not be a race that gives the exact scores you want that is allowed in your game. Especially if you are playing PFS.


Imbicatus wrote:
chaoseffect wrote:
Krodjin wrote:
It can be, but only for the Zen Archer. You're a Zen Archer so you don't need the bonus feat. If you don't dump your INT you're probably getting 4 skill points per level anyway.

The thing is that if you are trading out the real perks of being human (besides some favored class options that don't apply here) for an extra +2, you might as well go for a race that already has the ability scores you want plus other cool stuff.

True, but that might not always be an option. There may not be a race that gives the exact scores you want that is allowed in your game. Especially if you are playing PFS.

If you are open to any official race you can pretty much get anything except both strength and intelligence iirc, but you bring up a good point about that not always being possible so Dual Talent has its niche. I still don't think it makes Dual Talent a good choice in any context for Zen Archer though as the benefits of Dwarf (if strict core) or perhaps Oread, Duergar, or Oni Tiefling if not, greatly out-weigh the human benefit of +2 to 2 with no negatives.


For the Zen Archer, since you can use Wis instead of Dex for archery by 3rd level, Dex is less important (still useful for AC and the first couple of levels, but not necesary to max). Thus the races that give you Wis + Str (I prefer Str over Con for an archer). So the Oread or the Hungerseed or Motherless Tiefling fits the bill. I rate Strength high, since with some cash thrown into a composite bow, you can add your strength bonus to damage.


chaoseffect wrote:
If you are open to any official race you can pretty much get anything except both strength and intelligence iirc, but you bring up a good point about that not always being possible so Dual Talent has its niche. I still don't think it makes Dual Talent a good choice in any context for Zen Archer though as the benefits of Dwarf (if strict core) or perhaps Oread, Duergar, or Oni Tiefling if not, greatly out-weigh the human benefit of +2 to 2 with no negatives.

Scaleheart Skinwalker? ;)

+2 Int -2 Wis, +2 Str while shape changed.

Liberty's Edge

Nazerith wrote:
chaoseffect wrote:
If you are open to any official race you can pretty much get anything except both strength and intelligence iirc, but you bring up a good point about that not always being possible so Dual Talent has its niche. I still don't think it makes Dual Talent a good choice in any context for Zen Archer though as the benefits of Dwarf (if strict core) or perhaps Oread, Duergar, or Oni Tiefling if not, greatly out-weigh the human benefit of +2 to 2 with no negatives.

Scaleheart Skinwalker? ;)

+2 Int -2 Wis, +2 Str while shape changed.

Male Lashunta also get this set of stat-mods.

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