Mirror Image, on the other hand, is a bog-standard buff for casters to toss up that really hurts single attack builds.
The standard is to ready the action. It seems to be possible to counterspell a quickened spell with a standard counterspell, so I don't see why shooting a crossbow can't.
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Readying the action is a standard action. Taking the readied action is an interrupt. If you ready vs casting, it will apply to a quickened spell just as easily as a standard spell.
Edit: "The action occurs just before the action that triggers it. If the triggered action is part of another character's activities, you interrupt the other character. "
A crossbow character doesn't play like an archer. Stealth, positioning, range and cover are much, much more important when your build revolves around making one big attack instead of a volley. I suppose a repeating crossbow character might play more like an archer, and obviously not all archers behave the same way, so these are definitely generalizations.
Give him a composite longbow of strength and tell him it's a crossbow.
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It always surprises me how many people attack threads like these about non-god-of-DPR builds with what is, in effect, "You're having badwrongfun!"... I thought the advice forums were supposed to help people with their build, not bash them like some elitist MMO player VS a n00b that put a talent point in the 'wrong tree'.
That said....
The Alchemist crossbowman is a very, very fun build. Explosive Missile + Directed Bomb = much, much fun. (Far as I can tell, they work together, because I don't happen to see any asterisks next to them)
here a sample build:
Race: Half-Elf (Drow-Blooded for the darkvision, skill focus on stealth)
Starting point:
For: 10
Dex: 16 +2
Con: 14
Int: 14
Wis: 14
Cha: 10
Progression:
1-4: Fighter Crossbowman
5: Rogue Sniper
6-9: Fighter Crossbowman
10-12: Rogue Sniper
Feat:
F1: Point Blank Shot
1: Precise shot
F2: Rapid reload
3: Rapid shot
F4: crossbow mastery
5: weapon focus (heavy crossbow)
7: Vital Strike
F6: Weapon expertise
9: Iron Will
F8: Deadly aim
10: Rogue talent: finesse
11: Dervish dancer
12: Rogue talent: Improved Vital Strike
The feat could be replaced. but it's some idea. At level 12, with only some belt of dex +4 and a heavy fire crossbow +1, you should do:
+19 (against no dex), 3d10+3(dex)+4(deadly aim)+1d6(fire)+1(magic)+2(weapon expertise)+1 (crossbowman)+2d6, for an average of 34. If you max use magic device (thanks rogue) buy a wand of gravity bow to improve those damage by 10.5 per round. If you interrupt a caster with that, he will find it difficult to get the concentration DD of 55+ spell level ;).
For the Dervish dancer: you don't want to be the guy who just use a crossbow (or a bow). With those feats, you can work your way in close if needed.
Inquisitor gets Reapting Crossbows for free. With the Endless Ammuntion special ability, you can make a full attack with a crossbow without a single feat.
We're actually starting a campaign soon and I was thinking of making a Dwarf Inquisitor whose primary weapon is a repeating crossbow (it's not going to be a bow, because a dwarf with a bow just seems wrong, plus other concept reasons.) Other than endless ammunition on the repeater, how would you suggest building that so it's not incompetent in combat?
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Inquisitor gets Reapting Crossbows for free. With the Endless Ammuntion special ability, you can make a full attack with a crossbow without a single feat.We're actually starting a campaign soon and I was thinking of making a Dwarf Inquisitor whose primary weapon is a repeating crossbow (it's not going to be a bow, because a dwarf with a bow just seems wrong, plus other concept reasons.) Other than endless ammunition on the repeater, how would you suggest building that so it's not incompetent in combat?
Have a back-up weapon.
You don't need specific crossbow feats, just basic ranged feats. Endless Ammunition you won't get but won't need till higher levels. Even with Rapid Shot you can make two full attacks before you need to reload up until 8th level. After that switch to a Melee weapon (I prefer a one handed weapon so you don't have to drop your crossbow). Plus you have a couple of other things you can do in combat with spells and identifying the enemy for your Bane ability. Outside of combat you have a pretty good number of skills and you can heal.
It's not the highest damage output, I'm sure, but can be a real strong addition to a team.
I'm very happy with my grenadier alchemist/crossbowman.
With alchemical allocation and explosive missle, you play more like green Arrow than a ranged damage dealer. I've got tanglefootbags, holy water, alchemist fire, smoke bombs, regular bombs, etc.
Complete and total fun. And more entertaining for me than "I full attack (yawn) again."
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Crossbows can be an absolute blast man and in the right game with the right build incredibly fulfilling and useful.
If you are playing in a game like pfs where you have little or no house rules I suggest something like the crossbow ranger. You can get crossbow mastery without prerequisites by 6 which leaves you more room to invest feats around including not having to waste a feat on the s@#+ty rapid reload. I suggest picking up either a heavy crossbow or a heavy repeater and enjoying. Also deadly aim is a must as it grants power attack like bonuses at range or point blank as it lets you tree into other feats you might want like precise shot and improved precise. Also favored enemies can make a world of difference damage wise.
Other important things to remember is that the crossbow is built for a very different play style than a bow. You have a greater range, higher crit range, can fire from prone, higher damage dice, and often have reload times that matter. This means it doesn't play like a bow where you can run around and machine gun but it does make an excellent snipers weapon. 1d10 hurts at early levels and really can mess up someones day if you know when to time it. Remember also that you can drop prone as a free action at any time, allowing you to move into position, fall prone, and volley characters while at the same time gaining a +4 to AC against return fire. Now granted falling prone can leave you exposed so make sure to pick areas that give you an advantage there like higher ground, rooftops, or areas with ground defenses like the party tank or summons.
Also with your higher crit mod picking up improved crit options like keening (either the bow or the bolts) and then getting things like critical focus can actually start to pay dues at higher levels.
Hope that helps man.
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Now, as a swift when you take that single shot you also add double int after you see it hits.
...after two rounds of setup and wasted swift actions.
Round one: Swift Action enter Kirin Style
Round Two: Swift Action Identify
Round three: Swift Action apply 2x INT Damage on a hit.
It's a Trap. By the time you can apply the damage, it's not needed.
i generally would probably go with the alchemist, because the one time i played that class i had a blast (accidental pun)
theyre great skill monkeys and the bombs special effects (such as the entangling ones) are very cool
your basically green arrow with a crossbow/ rifle
Hello,
I made this build to shoot once during combat and buff/position with the rest of the actions. Can work with any ranged weapon, though I built it to be used with a crossbow (repeating heavy if possible).
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pt0d&page=2?Anyone-know-of-any-unique-buil d-ideas#75
Alchemist X/Barb 2/Wizard 1
vital strike, bombs, intelligence based mostly.
A crossbow is just the handle for the bayonette.
What about a crossbow barbarian?
Take the xbow feats, rely on your rage powers if it goes close, switch hit out as necessary and give yourself some extra hp if it goes to a long endurance shooting match.
The other one that, what comes to mind is the shielded fighter archetype, shifting between ranged support and shield bashing and boosting the ac of allies. Ultimate team player, Genoese pavise crossbowman with teamwork.
+19 (against no dex), 3d10+3(dex)+4(deadly aim)+1d6(fire)+1(magic)+2(weapon expertise)+1 (crossbowman)+2d6, for an average of 34. If you max use magic device (thanks rogue) buy a wand of gravity bow to improve those damage by 10.5 per round. If you interrupt a caster with that, he will find it difficult to get the concentration DD of 55+ spell level ;).Average CR12 AC is 27. You are looking at a pretty measly 65% chance to hit. Given you are making one attack per round that is really damn low. Your average 34 damage also isn't doing much to CR12 opponents which have, on average, 160hp. For Gravity Bow your wand based spell is lasting 1 minute so you will largely be stuck using it in combat and so wasting your first round.
As far as casters go if you see an archer type readying then you are not going to cast a spell. You use a wand or a scroll to drop something defensive like obscuring mist or mirror image and then start casting.
27, but don't forget that you deny Dex (even if many of the ''sky AC monster'' of this level don't have DEX), and it's easy to pump it higher (I didn't count Glove of Dueling for this build, so you could easily add a +2 to attack.)So, you touch Dragon 75% of the time (and the other CR12 are quite lower in AC, Dragon are the one who pump it up) before any party buff. Add a Bard and/ or a Cleric and you will basicaly touch each round. And if you want to improve the crossbow, you could always forget about the ''Dervis dancer part'' and go with Improved Critical and something like Fast Stealth.
The Average is 34, not the king of DPR. For the Gravity bow: yeah, you will be stuck using it, just like the Ranger is stuck casting it. It's not mandatory, but if you have time to cast it, you can cast it. The monster will not like to lose 1/4 of his life in one attack.
For the last part: the point his ''if you see''. You should pump your stealth for this case and not do the ''Am archer, Am going in front door like a Wrecking ball!''.
Sure, it's not an ''optimized character'', but for a Crossbowman, I found it usefull in a party and you should have fun using it. You should even shine some time, and at higher level the damage could greatly improve.
Any advice then on this?
Concept for a semi-boss.
Gearbox-0
Construct Crossbow fighter 4 (CR 5) (Clockwork template +1)
TN
Based upon lvl 4 human fighter.
--------------------
DEFENSE
--------------------
AC: 16,14,12
Hp 10+3d10+20 (or 60)
AC 16 (+Natural 2 armor, +4dex)
--------------------
OFFENSE:
Melee:
-2x Slam +6 (1d6+3)
Ranged:
-Repeating Crossbow [light] +8 (1d8) [19/20, x2]
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Initiative +4
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DEFENCE:
Save rolls: Fort: +4, Ref +5, Will +1 [statistics are kept from base creature]
DR 5/Bludgeon (originally adamantine)
Spell resistance 5
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STATISTICS
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Str 17(13+4), Dex 18 (18+2-2), Con --, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 12
Base Atk +4, CMB +7; CMD 21
Feats: Exotic weapon prof. [repeating light crossbow], Point-blank shot, Precise shot, Rapid Reload, Rapid shot.
Trained Class Skills: Acrobatics +8(1+3+4), Craft [Construct] +4(1+3), Intimidate +6(2+3+1), Perception +6(2+3+1).
Trained other Skills: Stealth +5(1+4)
Abilities clockwork: Str +4, Dex –2. A construct has no Constitution or Intelligence score. Its Wisdom changes to 11 and its Charisma changes to 1.
Senses: A clockwork gains low-light vision and darkvision to a range of 60 feet.
Bonus hitpoints, medium size: +20
Abilities lifespark: Replace the base creature’s Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores with new ones between 3 and 18. Determine each one by rolling 3d6. All the creature’s other ability scores remain the same.
Skills: Because of its recently awakened intelligence, a lifespark construct gains a number of skill points equal to (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1) x (HD +3). A lifespark construct has a number of class skills equal to one-half of its Intelligence score; all other skills are considered cross-class skills. A lifespark construct typically devotes skill points to whatever Craft skill is appropriate for repairing damage it sustains (see the base creature’s description for details), and several other skills favored by its creator.
Languages: A lifespark construct can speak even without a mouth. It can automatically speak the language of its creator and chooses its bonus languages from among those its creator knows.
Alignment: Usually neutral. Lifespark constructs can have any alignment.
Now, as a swift when you take that single shot you also add double int after you see it hits....after two rounds of setup and wasted swift actions.
Round one: Swift Action enter Kirin Style
Round Two: Swift Action Identify
Round three: Swift Action apply 2x INT Damage on a hit.It's a Trap. By the time you can apply the damage, it's not needed.
Combat Style Master helps a lot. If you do go this route, you need to be dedicated however.
Inquisitor gets Reapting Crossbows for free. With the Endless Ammuntion special ability, you can make a full attack with a crossbow without a single feat.We're actually starting a campaign soon and I was thinking of making a Dwarf Inquisitor whose primary weapon is a repeating crossbow (it's not going to be a bow, because a dwarf with a bow just seems wrong, plus other concept reasons.) Other than endless ammunition on the repeater, how would you suggest building that so it's not incompetent in combat?
I've intentionally not procured endless ammo or any other game mechanic that would eliminate the handicap of having to reload. I like the challenge and game play of having to monitor your ammo.
it's easy to pump it higher (I didn't count Glove of Dueling for this build, so you could easily add a +2 to attack.)
The Crossbowman archetype gives up weapon training, so Gloves of Dueling wouldn't work.
I agree with the majority of the statements here, but I do have a particular statement. This is one of those moments were everyone is looking at the numbers and not the idea behind it.
Funny enough, you can fire a crossbow from a wall, but can't do so with a bow because you need both hands to do so. Heavy crossbows you can shoot, albeit at a penalty that is negligible at that point.
Anyways the ultimate train of thought at the moment is "Play something that actually hurts" which bothers me quite a bit. This is a role playing game, so idea beats crunch, even if it is worse by nature. That aside, the entire crossbow feat line on a Paladin, Fighter, Ranger, or Monk will help you.
I'm actually playing a Human Ranger in RoTrL that uses Crossbows with favored enemy (Giant) and it's going just swell, especially since I can full attack because of the free ranger feat.
I've intentionally not procured endless ammo or any other game mechanic that would eliminate the handicap of having to reload. I like the challenge and game play of having to monitor your ammo.
This is going to impact some classes a lot more than others though. Consider that the non-human inquisitor is going to have gotten 4 (non-teamwork) feats by level 7, so crossbow mastery is going to cost you all of your feats (Rapid Reload, Point Blank, Rapid Shot, Mastery).
A 7th level fighter is going to have 7 feats (8 if human), and a 7th level ranger is going to have 6 feats (7 if human) and can just take Crossbow Mastery with no prerequisites as a style feat at level 6 (though IPS is likely a better choice.)
If I'm playing with a weapon that takes a bunch of feats to optimize (and the central problem with the crossbow relative to the bow is the feat tax needed to consistently full-attack), on a class that doesn't have feats coming out its ears, then I'm inclined to pursue endless ammunition for this character. If I were playing a fighter, I'd just bite the bullet and take all the feats.
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I think a Human Urban Ranger with the archery combat style (better feat options than crossbow style imo) follower of Abadar (favored weapon is light crossbow) would be a fun character and competent combatant.
DEX 16 (14 base +2 racial)
CON 14 (14 base)
INT 14 (13 base + 1 level)
WIS 13 (13 base)
CHA 12 (12 base)
1: Precise Shot
2: Rapid Reload
3: Rapid Shot
5: Deadly Aim
6: Improved Precise Shot
7: Clustered Shots
9: Weapon Focus(light crossbow)
10: Point Blank Master
By 5th level, the difference between the crossbow and the composite longbow is STR bonus to damage and rapid reload instead of manyshot. While this makes the crossbow strictly inferior in damage potential, the crossbowman is slightly less MAD by needing only DEX instead of DEX and STR. You also have the option to fire one-handed which the longbow wielder lacks. All in all, if you want the best damage potential it is the composite longbow (gaining a boost to all dmg rolls and an effective extra attack worth of dmg from manyshot), but the crossbow is a viable ranged weapon (munchkins need not apply).
I am also in favor of ruling that all bows and crossbows add the user's DEX bonus to damage. Composite bows would replace DEX with STR making them a good choice for switch hitters and as a backup ranged weapon for STR-based classes. I would also be fine with banning Clustered Shots, but now I'm getting off topic.
Yes there is: you get -4 to your attack while using it.... painfull. And you cannot reload both bolt as a free action.
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The Double Crossbow gets to at best 2 bolts per round fired as the same action. This might be nice for a Vital Strike build, but is otherwise very lackluster for the feat investment.
Perhaps a unique magic crossbow which can be used as a swift action to split a bolt into two bolts on the next attack. The two bolts are treated as though fired separately during the same action. The crossbow would need to have a pretty significant cost associated to warrant the ability (along the lines of adding the speed weapon quality). The weapon would make mid to high level crossbowman on par with longbow wielders and slightly behind composite-longbow wielders.
Yes, I think a crossbowman will rock the most if they can do something other than shoot that crossbow or make shooting the crossbow better.
If they can get into a longish sniper battle and they can use prone shooting, that can also be memorable.