Crowdforging Priority Poll: Bard vs Monk


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Really? I thought monks did great against armies in the Middle Ages. Haven't we all heard stories of the great Battle of Kells, where the residents of the monastery wiped out an entire legion of vikings and then killed a bunch of wizards for good measure?

In seriousness, my reasons are pretty much exactly what I said: Fast, hard to hit (or kill, in the case of the barbarians).

Barbarians have a high damage output and move quickly, making them ideal for catching a team and quickly killing multiple members. Barbarians are great for "fast, consistent damage".

Monks, meanwhile, move fast and are good at resisting most mage spells (in PF terms, high touch AC and good saves).

Goblin Squad Member

There is a big difference between European (Christian) Monks and Asian Monks. The western type monks usually had no combat skills, at least nothing like years of martial arts training.


Oh?

Goblin Squad Member

If PFO monks have any similarity to the tabletop their only competition is going to be wildshape druids. I'm actually still betting on the monks.

A traditional Pathfinder monk is about the fastest moving class (with the possible exception of a wildshape druid), has stealth as a class skill, and can kick butt and take names without gear.

The only thing I'm really expecting to see changed is the without gear part. That would be insanely unbalanced in a loot drop game so your robes and hand-wrappings are likely to be a big deal.


I'm hoping for a more spiritual style, though. Magic handwrappings always seemed silly to me, and they seemed to cheapen the monk's pro punching skillz. Less oven mitts of punching +5, more portable rock gardens of understanding how to punch like bear +5.

Those are canon names. I stole them from Goblinworks HQ with my racial +2 to Stealth.

Goblin Squad Member

'Crafted' items for Monks.

Handwraps of Touchy Feely
Thong of the Unwashed
Sandals of Footloose.

Goblin Squad Member

Eh. I don't really care as long as monks don't become the class of "Beat the living hell out of everyone without putting gear on the line" + speed + stealth class. That would turn it into THEE PvP class pretty quickly.

Goblin Squad Member

T7V Avari wrote:
Bard. If it were up to me, Monks wouldn't even be a core class, they'd be with ninjas and samurai where they belong!

Bard ! ... and all of the above

Goblin Squad Member

Bard 22
Monk 7

However, about 5 people declared Bard over Monk because it seems obvious that the Bard is easier to implement and will come first anyway, but seemed to actually prefer a Monk, so 17/12 would be a better indication of preference.

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Bard, more fun and easier to add.

Bardic music is really just a variation on 'spells'... throw in more 'musical' sound effects with the casting and maybe some floaty musical note visuals and viola, Bards. Similarly, instruments are just another object to add to the animation like any other 'implement' (e.g. spellbooks or holy symbols). As such, Bards shouldn't take any more work than Wizards and Clerics.

I still don't get why Ranger animal companions are considered 'more difficult' than Paladin animal companions, but in any case both could be left out entirely at first in favor of the other 'bond' option for each class (i.e. Paladin bond with weapon / Ranger bond with group). Then when critters are eventually added for Druid wildshape and animal companions they could become available for Paladins and Rangers too.

Scarab Sages

Bard-baric: The one with Performance (Enemy's Liver)


Monk. Roundhouse kick in the nuts ftw!

PS: Bonus if there is a scream response to the animation.

Goblin Squad Member

Tyncale wrote:

Bard 22

Monk 7

However, about 5 people declared Bard over Monk because it seems obvious that the Bard is easier to implement and will come first anyway, but seemed to actually prefer a Monk, so 17/12 would be a better indication of preference.

Hey! No interpreting other people's preferences.

Goblin Squad Member

First0f0ne wrote:
Banesama wrote:

I like both classes, but to me it is obvious more people will want to play the Bard.

But it is also obvious to me the Bard will come first. The Monk will have too much programming involved to be soon. I would be surprise if the Monk is not what of the last core classes to be added.

I think you are correct. New animations( for unarmed combat) are some of the most expensive chores to do in any game.

I'm not sure why the animations for unarmed combat have to be so hard. In the table top game, it doesn't matter if the unarmed attack is a punch, kick, elbow, knee, head butt ect. It should be the same for PFO IMO, and besides they should have an unarmed attack animation for characters attacking unarmed anyway. Just have the monk attack animation be a punch, like any other class making an unarmed attack IMO. If I was a monk fan, having the class delayed for anything flashier would be annoying to me.

Goblin Squad Member

T7V Jazzlvraz wrote:
...but do they tend bar?

Bartenders will probably be aristocrats or experts at first. ;P

The Exchange Goblin Squad Member

Monk

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

KotC ChaiGuy wrote:
Just have the monk attack animation be a punch, like any other class making an unarmed attack IMO. If I was a monk fan, having the class delayed for anything flashier would be annoying to me.

Heh. I can see it now;

Monk: I launch a "Flurry of Blows"!
<generic punch animation>

Monk: I hit him with "Stunning Fist"!
<generic punch animation>

Monk: Quivering palm!
<generic punch animation>

Goblin Squad Member

KotC ChaiGuy wrote:


I'm not sure why the animations for unarmed combat have to be so hard. In the table top game, it doesn't matter if the unarmed attack is a punch, kick, elbow, knee, head butt ect. It should be the same for PFO IMO, and besides they should have an unarmed attack animation for characters attacking unarmed anyway. Just have the monk attack animation be a punch, like any other class making an unarmed attack IMO. If I was a monk fan, having the class delayed for anything flashier would be annoying to me.

It's just not that simple:

Ryan Dancey wrote:


Conditions for Adding Roles: It's not just animations. There's an art component, and that's meaningful. But there's also a design component. It will take time to ensure that we're happy with the balance and flow of the "basic" class features. That's part of Crowdforging. We need some space between when various roles go into the game for testing and evaluation. We also need time to do development on the way features get implemented. Monks, for example, aren't just "fighters who use their fists". They're characters with extremely complex features.

Goblin Squad Member

MONK

Goblin Squad Member

Bard. The entertainer in Star Wars Galaxies was super awesome and I hope to see the bard do something similar. I really brought the social aspect of the game to life and made taking downtime and Socializing really worth it, both from a game mechanic and social perspective.

Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Hmmmm. If bards could add something to people's recovery rate in a tavern, there'd be an incentive to keep one on hand playing. It would get a bit closer to the traditional bard role.

Wouldn't even have to be much. a five or ten percent bump to the recovery rate or something.


Monk because i wanna be a mage whit some monk skill XD

Liberty's Edge Goblin Squad Member

KotC Carbon D. Metric wrote:
Which would you rather see implemented first, Bard or Monk?

Bard bard bard bard bard, ad infinitum. Also monks are way more animation intensive. Bards don't need much for sound and animation; look at how Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights handled bardic music.

Goblin Squad Member

Drakhan Valane wrote:
Bard bard bard bard bard, ad infinitum. Also monks are way more animation intensive. Bards don't need much for sound and animation; look at how Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights handled bardic music.

Exactly. Just swaying a little bit with an instrument in hand, some plinky little tune plays for a few seconds, and music notes pop up over the heads of everyone buffed.

Goblin Squad Member

Paladin
bard
ranger
druid
barbarian
sorcerer
monk

Goblin Squad Member

I want monk, but bard is more useful.

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