A Challenge! Worst archetypes ever for a PFS party!

[Wrong John Silver]

pH unbalanced wrote:

Mathwei ap Niall wrote:

Go White Haired Witch going into Cyphermage.

There's very little that is worse or more non-effective then that.

And make it a Dwarf.

(Ironically, I'm playing a Dwarf WHW right now, and it's a lot of fun. But it's an *extremely tricky* build and requires a couple of Monk levels to make it close to viable.)

Please say the character has a prehensile beard.

[Belafon]

Trying to be class (or at least theme) appropriate:

Alchemist (Crypt Breaker)/Pathfinder Delver
Summoner/Riftwarden
Cleric (Exorcist)/ Knight of Ozem
Witch (Sea Witch)/Storm Kindler

There's lots of fun ones that are eliminated for one reason or another
Wizard (Scrollmaster)/Duelist (never make the BAB)
Any monk archetype that replaces still mind (vow replaces still mind)
Monk (vow of poverty)/Prophet of Kalistrade (REALLY not class appropriate)

[Fromper]

Wrong John Silver wrote:

pH unbalanced wrote:

Mathwei ap Niall wrote:

Go White Haired Witch going into Cyphermage.

There's very little that is worse or more non-effective then that.

And make it a Dwarf.

(Ironically, I'm playing a Dwarf WHW right now, and it's a lot of fun. But it's an *extremely tricky* build and requires a couple of Monk levels to make it close to viable.)

Please say the character has a prehensile beard.

And is female.

[Kydeem de'Morcaine]

Fromper wrote:

Wrong John Silver wrote:

pH unbalanced wrote:

Mathwei ap Niall wrote:

Go White Haired Witch going into Cyphermage.

There's very little that is worse or more non-effective then that.

And make it a Dwarf.

(Ironically, I'm playing a Dwarf WHW right now, and it's a lot of fun. But it's an *extremely tricky* build and requires a couple of Monk levels to make it close to viable.)

Please say the character has a prehensile beard.

And is female.

{{ sigh }}

You guys did it again. Now I'm gonna have to try this or I won't be able to stop thinking about it.

[blackbloodtroll]

Fromper wrote:

Wrong John Silver wrote:

pH unbalanced wrote:

Mathwei ap Niall wrote:

Go White Haired Witch going into Cyphermage.

There's very little that is worse or more non-effective then that.

And make it a Dwarf.

(Ironically, I'm playing a Dwarf WHW right now, and it's a lot of fun. But it's an *extremely tricky* build and requires a couple of Monk levels to make it close to viable.)

Please say the character has a prehensile beard.

And is female.

This is one of the oldest, and stupidest jokes.

I have Developer confirmation, that there are as many bearded female dwarves, as there are bearded female humans.

Let's not keep digging up this dinosaur turd, and trying to sell it off like it's fresh hot apple pie.

We ain't eating it, buddy.

[Yngvar, beauty school dropout]

You be gettin' away from our women with yer fancy razors and backin away slowly er I'll be usin me racial enenimity bonuses...

[thaX]

Sorry, but the awesomeness that is Terry Pratchett has superseded any other pretense of a female Dwarf not having a beard. It just would not be healthy having a clean shaven face just because humans have a slight shortcoming with their females.

Oh, and the D&D movie would be without the one shining quote within the mired muck of a film. "You need a woman with a good, thick beard to hold onto!!"

[Ambrose Dalsine]

Kydeem de'Morcaine wrote:

{{ sigh }}

You guys did it again. Now I'm gonna have to try this or I won't be able to stop thinking about it.

This is how I ended up married to my Eidolon.

[blackbloodtroll]

I can't stand Terry Pratchett books, or the non-stop references that every fan feels they must forcibly interject into every damn gaming session.

Almost as bad as the individual who handles all social interactions with Beavis & Butthead impressions.

[Muser]

"I can't stand Terry Pratchett[...]"

Woah woah, stopped reading right there!

On topic, I forgot to mention Thunderstriker. What a mess.

[thaX]

So you really hate Douglas Adams as well, I suppose.

Yeah, so my character, Uh Oh, daughter of Grog, Scion of the copper Dragon Zonaladin, is a Daredevil - Savage Skald Bard (Grease and Hidieous Laughter is her two spells at 1st level) that will go into the Dragon Disciple PrC. This is because she was given away to Zonaladin in a failed diplomancy check by Grog.

So, do you think the character is underwhelming because of my class/PrC choices?

[Brian Lefebvre]

Draco18s wrote:

aceDiamond wrote:

Recently, I've been thinking better of Wishcrafter, after realizing Wishbound Arcana can be used once per day per person instead of just once per day PERIOD.

My group hasn't quite figured out how to ask for wishes yet. So I'm not worried about that. I've still got plenty of other spells I can use.

Quote:

However, how on earth are you getting that sort of Fireball damage at level 13?

Elemental bloodline's 9th level power. It's not replaced by the Wishcrafter archetype.

It does [caster level]d6 of damage with a DC based on half caster level.

13th + 4(robe of arcane heritage) + 4 (favored class) = 21.
DC is 10 + (caster level (21) / 2) + (CHA + 2 (Ifrit Fire Affinity)) = 20 + CHA (28+2 -> 10) + 1 = 20 + 10 = 30

According to This Post You can only use the racial FC boost towards bloodline powers that you actually have. From level 9-13 is only 5 levels which would only net you a +2 class level bonus to elemental blast.

[Wrong John Silver]

Terry Pratchett? Never read him.

[Kydeem de'Morcaine]

Wrong John Silver wrote:

Terry Pratchett? Never read him.

You are a poor, deprived, lonesome soul. I weep for you.

[icehawk333]

Bad archetypes....

Hmm.

Not sure if it's already been mentioned, or is PFS legal, but the first worlder summoner archtype is pretty bad.

[DM Beckett]

Wait, don't all the Cleric Archtypes but Shoanti Shaman, Crusader, Mendevian Priest, and Seperatist autowin this? (Undead Lord too if it where legal :( )

:P

[Fromper]

DM Beckett wrote:

Wait, don't all the Cleric Archtypes but Shoanti Shaman, Crusader, Mendevian Priest, and Seperatist autowin this? (Undead Lord too if it where legal :( )

:P

Well, in the Advanced Players Guide, clerics got subdomains instead of archetypes, so we should be looking for the worst subdomains. Also, the worst sorcerer bloodlines, with or without an archetype.

[calagnar]

I keep getting told Divine Strategist the worst archetype for clerics. Due to it giving up channel energy.

I keep getting told Arcane Bomber is the worst archetype for Wizards because you have 4 opposed schools.

I keep getting told Huntmaster is a bad archetype for cavaliers because you give up your mount and replace it with a dog.

I play all 3 in PFSP. I have yet for any one to tell me there not effective.

[Kurthnaga]

calagnar wrote:

I keep getting told Divine Strategist the worst archetype for clerics. Due to it giving up channel energy.

I keep getting told Arcane Bomber is the worst archetype for Wizards because you have 4 opposed schools.

I keep getting told Huntmaster is a bad archetype for cavaliers because you give up your mount and replace it with a dog.

I play all 3 in PFSP. I have yet for any one to tell me there not effective.

No one has told me my Thug is ineffective in PFS either. In fact I've had people thank me for playing him. I think that how you play is more important than what you play.

On-topic, a Thassilonian Specialist Transmutation school is something I've thought of building for awhile. Make him a half-orc, give him a falchion, and be very careful.

[Fromper]

If giving up channeled energy is so bad for clerics, then how'd my pirate cleric get to level 4 with 7 charisma? He channeled negative energy once against some swarms, but that's it. He only gets it once per day, and it tends to hurt his allies, so he doesn't use it unless things get really desperate, and he's out of better ideas.

[calagnar]

That's kind of way I gave up channeling. My Cha 6 self. So its 3-2=1. I could have gotten it down to a 5 but not sure where I would have put the two points.

[Belafon]

I'll have you know my 15th level evangelist cleric has in fact channeled. Twice. For 1d6/2 the first time and 4d6/2 the second.

There's no "bad" cleric archetype if you are filling the role in the group that archetype is supposed to take. (Buffer/control caster in my case.)

[Yottsu hoshi]

Archaeologist Bard. NPC class that gets used entirely too much in PFS. Gives away everything useful about bards, IMO.

[Draco18s]

Brian Lefebvre wrote:

According to This Post You can only use the racial FC boost towards bloodline powers that you actually have. From level 9-13 is only 5 levels which would only net you a +2 class level bonus to elemental blast.

Still leaves the power at 19d6 Ref DC 29, which is still a 9th level spell from a 19th level caster equivalent, which at 13th level is absurd.

[Mike Lindner]

lemeres wrote:

Kerney wrote:

First World Summoner, bring forth your wimped out eidolon. Too bad we can't combine it with broadmaster.

Geisha Bard.

Dwarven cross blooded sorcerer.

Eh, first world summoner has its bit of charm. Specifically, the pugwampis on the second level of on their summoning SLA. Those little ....buggers...have a 20' radius effect called 'unluck aura' that makes you reroll every d20 and take the worse result. That is as good as the misfortune hex, and it is an constant AoE that has no save (although it doesn't work on mindless things).

It also has a rather easy to (ab)use loophole- you aren't affected if you have ANY kind of luck bonus (So half orcs and halflings can get by fairly easily). And even if you don't have that, it specifically tells you some easy options for over coming it (including divine favor, which is a level 1 spell for the religious casters, which gives a nice enough bonus to attack and damage). And since unluck doesn't affect animals (called out by the ability as being too dumb to work on), you could also spam some of those too to make things interesting.

So these are little critter that have a cirle 45' wide that can mess up your enemies' attempts to attack, use skills, do maneuvers, or make saving throws. And it is on a low enough summon spell that you can easily spam a good number of them. So it is fairly easy to tell them to spread out and cover the whole battlefield in unluck. This means that they can't all be taken out by an AoE blast...and the fact that they have only 6 hp is an advantage. They are so easy to take out....so that becomes the enemies' first priority, rather than (uselessly, due to the unluck) trying to fight your party.

So basically, treat the first worlder like a 1 trick witch (even if that trick is insanely good). Just have him sit in the background, casting buffs and summons and having his eidolon use wands or whatever.

Indeed. I have a first worlder and it is quite good, it just requires a little different approach than "eidolon smash." Vexgits are good summons too with rusting grasp and nuglubs can annoy casters easily because they have the step up feat.

[Fromper]

Belafon wrote:

I'll have you know my 15th level evangelist cleric has in fact channeled. Twice. For 1d6/2 the first time and 4d6/2 the second.

There's no "bad" cleric archetype if you are filling the role in the group that archetype is supposed to take. (Buffer/control caster in my case.)

Yup. My no-channel cleric is great at his job - front line debuffer. He's a "bad touch" cleric, with spells and spell-like melee touch attacks. That's why I went negative channeling with no charisma to speak of - spontaneous inflicts!

Really, there are certainly classes that just don't belong in this thread, because they're just too good to be awful. The cleric and wizard spell lists kinda rule them out of contention for bad character types, even if built poorly.

[ARGH!]

@ the buffed elemental blasting

He could have gotten early access from his robes of arcane heritage, which specifically lists that it allows that.

Let the arguments ensue about how early that is feasible and how much that will affect his equivalent level!

[Phosphorus]

Thanks for all the replies so far, keep them coming!

Preferably, it would be good for the characters to have a bad prestige class to have to waste skills & feats on to qualify.

Tieflings and Aasimars are also banned.

Ironically, we had to reject Skald because people actually wanted an excuse to play one!

All characters will be Grand Lodge due to their loyalty to the Pathfinder Society, so we probably should have all of the unused Pathfinder Prestige Classes. They are: Pathfinder Chronicler, Pathfinder Delver, Pathfinder Field Agent, Pathfinder Savant. What would be some bad archetypes and races for entry into these classes?

[Leathert]

Well, apparently you can get only one level of spellcasting from Pathfinder Field Agent. So if you take it as early as possible and keep taking it, any spellcasting class.

Chronicler I've been told is overall non-optimal, but especially if you aren't a bard, as its version of performance (epic tales tms.) is much less useful than actual bardic performance (targeting only one person at a time etc.)

[Croman]

I say halfling scrollmaster Wizard into a Loremaster. This seems like a great sub-optimal build to me. If you have to use the Pathfinder PrC I would go with Chronicler.

[Tangaroa]

Hmmm... for Pathfinder Savant, maybe:

Cloistered Cleric

Oracle (Ancestors Mystery, Enlightened Philosopher Archetype, Deaf Curse)

Scrollmaster Wizard (this is just a hilarious archetype in general)

[pH unbalanced]

For Pathfinder Delver, I think that it would be a challenge for any 2 skill point class, given that the prereqs are 18 skill ranks.

Maybe a Cleric of Irori, since the class is all about the love of Knowledge and History.

On base classes, I'm thinking that an Oracle of Battle with the Wrecker curse (makes all of your equipment gain the broken condition) would be challenging.

[blackbloodtroll]

thaX wrote:

So you really hate Douglas Adams as well, I suppose.

No. I like him.

I think the onslaught of references to Terry Pratchett Novels in many games, and other social gatherings, has soured the material beyond redemption for me.

This, and Kender references. I will not play in any game with them, or with PCs/NPCs based on them, and leave the room if they are referenced in conversation.

[pH unbalanced]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

This, and Kender references. I will not play in any game with them, or with PCs/NPCs based on them, and leave the room if they are referenced in conversation.

In defense of Kender, they make *excellent* characters for eight year-olds new to RPGs. I know two different people who only got into role-playing because they were handed Kender pregens, and everything suddenly clicked for them.

Other than that, yes, Kender fatigue.

[nate lange]

i already suggested monk into pathfinder chronicler...

for the others:
- (any archetype that reduces spell progression) magus 5/savant
- seeker sorcerer 5/delver
- sensei monk 5/field agent

[R2D2TS]

Tangaroa wrote:

Hmmm... for Pathfinder Savant, maybe:

Cloistered Cleric

Oracle (Ancestors Mystery, Enlightened Philosopher Archetype, Deaf Curse)

Scrollmaster Wizard (this is just a hilarious archetype in general)

I actually have a Scrollmaster made with a couple of GM credits applied to give it a chance at earlier levels. I plan to take it into the Cyphermage prestige class. Unfortunately I am the only GM in my area so I do not know if/when I will ever get to play it.

[MrRetsej]

Geisha Bards? Pffft. Try a Celebrity Geisha Bard.

Others to consider;
Psychonaut Internal Alchemist Alchemist
Wave Rider Herald Squire Cavalier
A low charisma Cold Iron Warden Inquisitor
Vampire Hunter Inquisitor

[Phosphorus]

OK, the results are in and the draw has been made!

Thanks to everyone who helped for this thread.
Every class has a race, archetype and prestige class they must enter!
No dump stats allowed, every stat must be a minimum of 10 after racial adjustments!

We have the following characters:

Gnome, Barbarian (Titan Mauler, must dual wield two handed Gnome Weapons), Low Templar.

Gnome, Barbarian (True Primitive), Knight of Ozem.

Gnome, Monk (Core rulebook and Gnomes of Golarion only), Brother of the Seal.

Tengu, Cavalier (Strategist, Order of the Tome), Battle Herald.

Elf, Cleric (Cloistered, Variant Channel), Balanced Scale of Abadar.

Halfling, Fighter (Crossbowman), Halfling Opportunist.

Halfling, Rogue (Filcher), Bellflower Tiller.

Dwarf, Witch (White Haired Witch), Riftwarden.

Dwarf, Wizard (Scrollmaster), Prophet of Kallistrade.

Dwarf, Wizard, class each level determined randomly... no two levels allowed to be the same... first random level was Wizard...

The gnomes and dwarves are triplets, the halflings are twins.

Bring on the Dalsine Affair! :-)

Updates will follow...

[MrRetsej]

Having seen four White Haired Witches played, they've all been incredibly powerful characters from first level on....

[Derwalt]

Looking very much forward to updates! :)

[FranKc]

I hope the randomized dwarf adds all prc's to the list as soon as he qualifies for them. :)

[Charon's Little Helper]

MrRetsej wrote:

Having seen four White Haired Witches played, they've all been incredibly powerful characters from first level on....

White Haired Witches have the potential to be pretty okay - but if built wrong they're pretty darned awful. And they're easy to build poorly.

[Phosphorus]

MrRetsej wrote:

Having seen four White Haired Witches played, they've all been incredibly powerful characters from first level on....

Were they dwarven?

[Apocryphile]

I got the scrollmaster! Lucky me...

[Kydeem de'Morcaine]

Phosphorus wrote:

...

Dwarf, Wizard, class each level determined randomly... no two levels allowed to be the same... first random level was Wizard...

FranKc wrote:

I hope the randomized dwarf adds all prc's to the list as soon as he qualifies for them. :)

Well I see 21 classes. But I read that you can't combine some of them like ninja and rogue or cavalier and samurai. So if he/she doesn't retire at 12 and continues on through to level 20 will have to have at least some PrC.

But man it would be difficult trying to meet the requirements for some unknown PrC. Many of them will be impossible be cause of casting requirements.

[Tangaroa]

Apocryphile wrote:

I got the scrollmaster! Lucky me...

I so want to help you try and optimize it :)

[feylund]

rouge/summoner.... always have a buddy to flank with.... lol

[PrinceRaven]

I prefer lipstick/wizard myself.

[Ragoz]

I'm fairly sure the Soul Forger magus is legal. With Diminished spellcasting, limits to using spell combat and strike with only their bonded weapon, a useless crafting abilty, and trading spell recall for the ability to give your weapon hardness and hit points this is one of the worst PFS archtypes I've seen.

[FranKc]

Kydeem de'Morcaine wrote:

Phosphorus wrote:

...

Dwarf, Wizard, class each level determined randomly... no two levels allowed to be the same... first random level was Wizard...

FranKc wrote:

I hope the randomized dwarf adds all prc's to the list as soon as he qualifies for them. :)

Well I see 21 classes. But I read that you can't combine some of them like ninja and rogue or cavalier and samurai. So if he/she doesn't retire at 12 and continues on through to level 20 will have to have at least some PrC.

But man it would be difficult trying to meet the requirements for some unknown PrC. Many of them will be impossible be cause of casting requirements.

I meant that you add the PrC's to the randomizer-list if the character qualifies for them. Some are quite easy to qualify for after all.