In this case, My Sylph Wind Druid was taunting an opponent to jump from one tree to another towards her.
She had readied the Wind Druid Supernatural Ability "Wind Blast" to go off at the mid point of his jump, in attempt to force him to fall a long way to the ground.
The ghast was ready to jump, and then changed his mind. GM said "spellcraft".
I wonder if that would have worked for a supernatural ability with no verbal, material or somatic components.
Spellcraft by RAW can work against a Stilled and Silent spell at no penalty.
However this sounds like a Knowledge (Local) to identify that your humanoid native outsider druid has a supernatural ability. Or whatever knowledge it would be to give the enemy any information against the party. If you're Game Master wants to be nice and non meta-gaming.
Other wise your Game Master decided it would be more fun for the intelligent Ghast not to jump off some high spot just to presumably die or injure itself by falling.
GM described Ghast as chasing my druid, salivating, and crazed to eat me. He said a "Sense Motive of 1 tells you hes about to jump"
Once I told GM that was my plan, for the Ghast to jump, and I readied wind blast...
The GM said the ghast did a spellcraft check, and didn't jump. He -poof- became a 5th level caster and magic missiled me instead. And he developed a 26 CMD to beat my 25 CMB Wind Blast. (We'd had a 4-round chase scene and he'd never shown signs of being a caster before)
My 3rd level druid was 1 xp from dying when the GM sent in an NPC to save my "foolish @ss"
So, I'm trying to figure out if there's any way this is RAW. Or if its just the GM rigging the game to make sure his NPCs always win.
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Looking at the rules for SLA's
A spell-like ability usually has a limit on how often it can be used. A constant spell-like ability or one that can be used at will has no use limit; unless otherwise stated, a creature can only use a constant spell-like ability on itself. Reactivating a constant spell-like ability is a swift action. Using all other spell-like abilities is a standard action unless noted otherwise, and doing so provokes attacks of opportunity. It is possible to make a concentration check to use a spell-like ability defensively and avoid provoking an attack of opportunity, just as when casting a spell. A spell-like ability can be disrupted just as a spell can be. Spell-like abilities cannot be used to counterspell, nor can they be counterspelled.
For creatures with spell-like abilities, a designated caster level defines how difficult it is to dispel their spell-like effects and to define any level-dependent variables (such as range and duration) the abilities might have. The creature's caster level never affects which spell-like abilities the creature has; sometimes the given caster level is lower than the level a spellcasting character would need to cast the spell of the same name. If no caster level is specified, the caster level is equal to the creature's Hit Dice. The saving throw (if any) against a spell-like ability is 10 + the level of the spell the ability resembles or duplicates + the creature's Charisma modifier.
Some spell-like abilities duplicate spells that work differently when cast by characters of different classes. A monster's spell-like abilities are presumed to be the sorcerer/wizard versions. If the spell in question is not a sorcerer/wizard spell, then default to cleric, druid, bard, paladin, and ranger, in that order
From RAW we can tell:
- SLA's work just like spells, except where noted otherwise
- They have no verbal or somatic components, but retain their casting time
- They can be disrupted, but not counterspelled
Given the above, plus the rules for knowledge and spellcraft, your GM was wrong. Knowledge skills would tell you what SLA's a creature had access to before they were used. Spellcraft would allow you to identify which ability is being used.
Honest question. Does supernatural ability = SLA?
Honest question. Does supernatural ability = SLA?
Not necessarily.
Supernatural Abilities (Su)
Supernatural abilities are magical but not spell-like. Supernatural abilities are not subject to spell resistance and do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated (such as an antimagic field). A supernatural ability's effect cannot be dispelled and is not subject to counterspells.
whereas
Spell-Like Abilities (Sp)
Spell-like abilities, as the name implies, are magical abilities that are very much like spells. Spell-like abilities are subject to spell resistance and dispel magic. They do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated (such as an antimagic field). Spell-like abilities can be dispelled but they cannot be counterspelled or used to counterspell.
Both Spell-Like Abilities and Supernatural Abilities are "Special Abilities", but all SU abilities are not necessarily SLAs.
See rules
SU SLA
NO YES Subject to SR ?
NO YES Subject to Dispell ?
NO NO Subject to CounterSpell?
NO NO Functions in AMF ?
I would have askes for a knowledge arcana check. It is not a rule but it makes sense for identifying magical effects .
Sounds like your GM just being bad, honestly. It happens. Why don't you talk to him about it?
I would have askes for a knowledge arcana check. It is not a rule but it makes sense for identifying magical effects .
Except, he hadn't actually used the ability, he was only readying it. Even readying to cast a normal spell wouldn't allow a spellcraft check: that happens when the spell actually goes off.
1) You cannot use spellcraft to determine that a target has readied a spell (or spell-like ability).
2) You can use Spellcraft to identify a spell or spell-like ability as it is being cast.
Then, if you have a readied action against a spell being cast (such as counterspelling) you may use that information before the spell (or spell-like ability) is completed.
3) Based on your information, what should have happened is that you readied an action against a jump (or something movement related like he moves towards you), he started his jump, your readied action goes off.
Yes, when your readied action goes off he can identify it but that won't do him any good unless he has a readied action or an immediate action to do something about it.
Sounds like your GM just being bad, honestly. It happens. Why don't you talk to him about it?
I would have askes for a knowledge arcana check. It is not a rule but it makes sense for identifying magical effects .Except, he hadn't actually used the ability, he was only readying it. Even readying to cast a normal spell wouldn't allow a spellcraft check: that happens when the spell actually goes off.
I was just saying knowledge checks are better.
Thanks for the input everyone. Its time to see if I can sort things out with the GM. I just wanted to make sure I knew what I was talking about, before I brought issues up.
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Identifying supernatural abilities may be difficult, if not impossible, but spotting a readied action should be easy enough.
In your example the ghast would have known your sylph was waiting for something, but not necessarily what.
For anyone curious about the result... I did speak with the GM.
I tried to stay appreciative of his creative efforts as a GM,
while expressing confusion about a ghast with...
climb speed
CMD of 26+
ability to get an AoO in the middle of my double-move
prognostication (in lieu of spellcraft)
5th level caster.
He replied that it was an 11th level multi-classed undead.
My druid would have died, but for his GMPC-ex-machina
I still wonder about some of the above, even tho I was clearly outmatched in any case.
But he made it clear he's not answering anymore questions, since I don't have the appropriate knowledge checks available.
I also wonder about putting an 11th level random encounter in against a lone 3rd level caster, who was out of spells.
He says he's a "stick with the random chart, and there are some things you are meant to run from" kinda guy.
Yeah, except I had no way to know what it was (knowledge nature wouldn't help), and he'd knocked out half my hp in an AoO, halfway thru my double move. So running wasn't helping either.
So its a his-way-or-the-highway situation. And I have to decide if the other fun elements are worth sucking this up.
Thanks for playing along everyone.