Arrows against the wind


Advice

51 to 63 of 63 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>

I am still a very pre3.x gamer. So ranged weapons is pretty much something done at the beginning of combat before the enemy closes the distance. And I am fine with that style of play. I also love 1E/2E Featherfall spell that completely makes ranged weapons useless in a specific area.

The Exchange

Yeah, casters seem peculiarly aware that being stuck full of arrows might be a slight obstacle to their plans for world domination. Entropic shield, wind wall, and protection from arrows all pop up early and are piled on top of effects that are equally effective against melee displacement, stoneskin, wall of force...

Still, the variety of defenses out there is the whole reason adventurers travel in packs. ;) Every round spent arrow-proofing themselves is a round where one of your melee or spellcaster buddies might get the guy.


Liz Courts wrote:
Removed a post and changed the thread title to be less fighty. Please don't be insulting to other posters, thank you!

Thanks. And I apologize for the "fighty" title. I really didn't foresee that the discussion would heat up that much.

Sovereign Court

Baghtu wrote:
Liz Courts wrote:
Removed a post and changed the thread title to be less fighty. Please don't be insulting to other posters, thank you!
Thanks. And I apologize for the "fighty" title. I really didn't foresee that the discussion would heat up that much.

You asked a legitimate question - what to do as an archer when faced with wind? Unfortunately you also added a whiff of "my GM is a bastard" and "I just want to have it all" - and people here go crazy when they smell that.

Sadly, because your original question really is a good question. It can take quite some investment in feats to make a good archer, so you do have to plan ahead for when that's not working.

I think you should seriously consider the Switch Hitter concept. Basically, it means you start combat firing arrows, but as circumstances change, you move to melee combat. As a monk you still get a decent amount of close combat skill. It's not your preferred way of fighting, but with just 1-2 feats you can be a decent secondary melee fighter.

The other major solution is, I think, being mobile. If enemies put up a wind wall between you and the target, use Fast Movement to move around.

Also, impress on any spellcasters in your party the importance of dispelling those particular defences. Because realistically, how many Wind Walls would the enemy prepare anyway?


Sadly i am not too knownledgeable on the topic of archery, but i have to say that every counter have a trade-off. As the owl was saying about spells that spellscasters use to protect themselves against archers is that they waste spellslots, spellsknown and rounds making themselves harder to be killed by you. However, the rest of the party is not a bunch of archers so every round wasted not taking care of them is a round less he will live.

So look at the positive side, get a alternative way of fighting in addition to your bow or even rely more on your party members and work out a way you and your party can TOGETHER overcome your handicap.

A DM might decide that this encounter or adventure will be your bane, but that doesnt mean the DM is neccesary out to get you because he hates you, maybe he just wants to challange your character or that he just wanted to add a theme to his adventure that accidentally counter your gimmick or both!

Take every challange with a positive outlook and work around it with your mates and you will see that the DM will claim that teamwork is overpowered . ;)

Sovereign Court

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I think it's actually fair that hindrances to archery crop up quite often. Fights shouldn't take place in a featureless void, most of the time. You'll be fighting in dungeons, forests, cities - places where there are no clear lines of fire. Assuming the GM actually remembers to have the weather change now and then, you'll occasionally have some annoying weather. Enemies and allies will be wandering in front of your preferred targets (the nerve!). Faced with a machine-gun archer, enemies will actually do the reasonable thing and take cover.

All these things are fair game, and I think that if done in moderate amounts the always-full-attack archer gets moved to roughly the same not-always-full-attack spot that melee warriors are in; in other words, balanced with each other.

Of course, just like the melee dude, you're always looking for clever tactics and abilities to offset these hindrances. That's the good kind of arms race: players trying to think up better ways to play.


Paranoia about wind may be misplaced. There are plenty of other ways your enemies might try to neutralise your archer; invisibility, illusions, fog/smoke and swarms all spring to mind. Grapplers. Return fire from a group, all aimed at you. Focus everything on trying to avoid just one possible problem and you can get messed up by the real problem.

Do you have some reason to believe wind conditions or wind wall will be the tactic of choice?


@avr mi reason to believe that this would happen is because de GM mentioned it when talking archery. So this is on his mind. That's all.

And he likes more to do original and interesting things in combat, than just raising monster's AC. He enjoys being creative ;)


Baghtu wrote:

@avr mi reason to believe that this would happen is because de GM mentioned it when talking archery. So this is on his mind. That's all.

And he likes more to do original and interesting things in combat, than just raising monster's AC. He enjoys being creative ;)

I now understand where the misunderstanding in the thread comes from.

Your original question was that your GM have told you previously that he might use wind to make it harder for your character to take down monsters and thus you *meta-reacted* and try to find a solution to a problem that havent arisen yet.

I kinda feel bad for the GM that he cant discuss alternative methods of defense without his players going all nuts trying to counter it before it even hits the table =/


Lincoln Hills wrote:

Yeah, casters seem peculiarly aware that being stuck full of arrows might be a slight obstacle to their plans for world domination. Entropic shield, wind wall, and protection from arrows all pop up early and are piled on top of effects that are equally effective against melee displacement, stoneskin, wall of force...

Still, the variety of defenses out there is the whole reason adventurers travel in packs. ;) Every round spent arrow-proofing themselves is a round where one of your melee or spellcaster buddies might get the guy.

Plus, if you're playing a Zen Archer you will have Stealth and Perception as class skills, and you should have a fairly high Dex and Wis. So you should be able to get the drop on enemy casters from time to time. If the rest of the party is much less sneaky than the monk can be, keep in mind that the monk moves faster than they do, so you can scout ahead.

They will have a harder time putting up their anti-arrow defenses if you've already started pincushioning them first.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

The thread is starting to get long, and I didn't read the entire thing. Sorry if this idea has already been posted. Since most of the angles to this problem have been discussed, here is something new. So, your GM is using non-mechanical phenomenon to decide the results of a mechanically governed action. Lets say there was a wind you were not aware of and it caused the shot to stray off target. Deal with the non-mechanical phenomenon with a non-mechanical solution. On your follow-up attack, announce that you compensate for the wind. If your shot ended up two feet the left, aim two feet to the right. I realize this is not a solution supported by the rules, but it seems he isn't exactly using the rules, so it might work. Or... he might simply nerf you despite your efforts.


The way I deal with archers is:

1) I created a spell in my game called Resist arrows that works exactly like Protection from energy except applies to ranged attacks.

2) Giving bad guys deflect arrows

3) Wind spell and effects

4) Mirror image, blur, displacement

5) Using DR but clustered shot makes that much less effective. I house rule that clustered shot applies -2 to hit on all attack when you use it.

6) High amounts hit points on the bad guys. I will bend the rules here giving a bad guy max hit points from time to time.

8) High AC

7) Immunity to ranged attack with some manner to make ranged attacks effective. This is more like studying the creature to find that weak spot. This I only use on the rarest of occasions for the climatic battle with a creature they encounter before and finally figure out how to defeat.

I'm sure I'm missing a few things more that I have done.

Using wind all the time ends up in situation like this. So I mix it up a bit and leave lots of encounters for the archer to feel powerful against those with no defenses.

The thing is if I don't do this to the players when they come up against enemy archers they end up defenseless against them. I've nearly TPK a party with couple of evil Rangers with bows.

The Exchange

Another note: a sufficiently high-level caster can use alter winds from the APG to drop wind speeds. Although they have to be pretty powerful before they can affect the sort of wind strong enough to impose those penalties.

51 to 63 of 63 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Arrows against the wind All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Advice
Druid Gear