Halt Undead - Would the target(s) get a save each round like hold person?


Rules Questions

Grand Lodge

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The halt undead spell says:

"This spell renders as many as three undead creatures immobile. A nonintelligent undead creature gets no saving throw; an intelligent undead creature does. If the spell is successful, it renders the undead creature immobile for the duration of the spell (similar to the effect of hold person on a living creature). The effect is broken if the halted creatures are attacked or take damage."

Would an undead get a new save each round, like the hold person spell?

I would assume so, but I guess it could be interpreted that the target is immobile for the duration of the spell.. with no surther save.

Thoughts?

Grand Lodge

For reference, here is the text from hold person:

"The subject becomes paralyzed and freezes in place. It is aware and breathes normally but cannot take any actions, even speech. Each round on its turn, the subject may attempt a new saving throw to end the effect. This is a full-round action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. A winged creature who is paralyzed cannot flap its wings and falls. A swimmer can't swim and may drown."


It is only saying they are held like hold person. it is not saying it imitates the spell in other ways .

Grand Lodge

Thanks for answering wraithstrike.

Even mass hold monster (spell level 9) would allow saves each rounds.
I thought that for game balance reason, halt undead (up to 3 targets) should allow for saves, but I understand the text is not clear on this.


I would say there is no precedent for repeated saves. The mention of hold person is not enough as the spell is called out only as being 'similar to' (IE, the same type of hold).

There's a few undead-specific spells similar to other spells (halt undead, command undead, control undead). They are all more powerful than their counterparts and allow fewer saves, so presumably this is intentional.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
Blakmane wrote:
I would say there is no precedent for repeated saves. The mention of hold person is not enough as the spell is called out only as being 'similar to' (IE, the same type of hold).

Casts <raise thread>

I would agree, but my GM at a game yesterday ruled that "similar to hold person" means "same as hold person" and gave the undead beastie a save on each of its turns to break the effect. :sadface:

FAQ'ing in the hopes that an official-like ruling my appear in our stockings!

Game on!
- Corey

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.

The above happened again today in a PFS game. Had to agree with the GM while at his table, but disagree with his ruling in general.

Any word from anyone with any official say-so? Please?

Thank you for your valuable time.

Game on!
- Corey


Your GM is wrong. If there was a save allowed every round, it would say so. Instead, you are plainly given the end conditions: the halted undead are attacked or damaged.


mplindustries wrote:
Your GM is wrong. If there was a save allowed every round, it would say so. Instead, you are plainly given the end conditions: the halted undead are attacked or damaged.

Exactly.

Hold Person grants a new save each round, but does not end if the target is attacked.

Halt Undead ends if the target(s) are attacked, but does not grant a new save each round.

I don't think we will get an FAQ on this, because the spell descriptions are pretty clear.

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