Question about game timeand EE

[NewRageGamer]

Will the crowdforger/pledge free game time be subtracted while in Early Enrollment, or will we have a chance to play when it's live on the pledge time?

[Nihimon]

Ryan has said you'll be able to redeem your free time whenever you want to. You can wait until Open Enrollment if you want. You can even redeem a month of it in Early Enrollment, then wait until Open Enrollment to redeem the other months.

[NewRageGamer]

Ah. So it won't be free to test? (A la Wildstar et al)

[Nihimon]

NewRageGamer wrote:

Ah. So it won't be free to test? (A la Wildstar et al)

It's not entirely clear what form the "free-to-play" option will take, but there will be something... eventually.

[Gol Morbis]

EE isn't really a test. We aren't expected to be playing as testers. We are just playing the game while it is being developed. Any XP that you earn during EE is permanent, you aren't losing anything in the long run.

[NewRageGamer]

Thank you both for the insight! I'm so excited. I know they were projecting EE next month, but I don't think they even started Alpha yet, right?

[Shane Gifford of Fidelis]

The real testing is Alpha, though that is also not free. Very different business model than the norm, that's for sure.

As Nihimon says, you have a chance to play with your free game time during Open Enrollment, but if you do wait until then it means you can't use it during Early Enrollment. Each person has to decide at what point the game has enough features for them to jump in and start playing, but that decision is entirely up to you.

[Kakafika]

It is my understanding that you begin using your Kickstarter play time when you activate your account to enter the world. I believe this was stated several times in various places, but unfortunately it was so long ago I can't remember where =P

So for me, depending on how Alpha looks at the end, I may wait a few months until more of the systems that I'm interested in have entered the game

EDIT: That's what I get for leaving my browser open for 13 minutes before responding ><

[Ryan Dancey]

Early Enrollment remains scheduled for the 3rd Quarter of 2014, as it always has been.

[Calidor Cruciatus]

With all due respect, and I want to get a peek at the game as much as anyone, but if "internal" alpha testing JUST started at the end of Q3, can you really expect to have a sellable product in 3 months?

You get one shot at this. If you start to charge people for an incredibly buggy and incomplete game, the fallout on gaming forums will be horrendous and the game will never recover (see Mortal Online).

No really, please take to heart that game's history because it sounds very much like you hope to follow a similar plan: Warn people you are launching a very basic and early game and let the diehards fund it to buy time for it to be fleshed out. That game has lost money for 4 years straight and has never turned a profit since launch. I understand the concept is that you are telling people upfront that it will be rough at launch, but the reality is that games that try this get blacklisted quickly today.

I have no idea about the state of the game and obviously you know it better than anyone, but again... you have ONE chance to make the right impression. Perceptions of MMOs are nearly impossible to change. If you start billing people for a game that has severe issues it is very, very unlikely to recover. The market has changed since EvE launched and it is quite unforgiving.

[Banesama]

Ryan has stated repeatedly on many different forums that EE is going to be Minimum Viable Product. If people go into EE and complain the game isn't complete then that is on them not GW for not listening and reading for months.

[Calidor Cruciatus]

Banesama wrote:

Ryan has stated repeatedly on many different forums that EE is going to be Minimum Viable Product. If people go into EE and complain the game isn't complete then that is on them not GW for not listening and reading for months.

Again, this has been tried before with disastrous results. It really doesn't matter if it's "their fault". It won't even matter that people can simply choose to not subscribe and wait for the real launch. It's all about perception.

Reality is that it's little different than spending $150 to buy into an Alpha for Archeage, but the second there is an ongoing subscription cost it is going to be PERCIEVED differently. Seriously go and lookup Mortal Online (there are many others as well). They tried almost the exact same thing. They have been eviscerated by gaming sites and MMO fans.

It almost would have been better to sell a "Beta" addon in the store for $75. Plenty of folks would have bought it. I know it's 6 of 1 and half a dozen of another, but mark my words well regarding how the subscription idea will be treated.

Has there been any game launched in the last 5 years that succeeded with a similar marketing concept?

[Kakafika]

I think you bring up some important points to think on, Calidor. I especially agree that the first impression is a big deal. I think I've only ever seen 2 reviews for MMOs after they have had some patches, and I didn't end up buying the games despite my interest because my buddies had already shunned them.

This quote gives me a lot of hope:

Ryan Dancey wrote:

I think that if I had seen Rust before we planned Pathfinder Online we might have risked a much more minimum game than we did. As it is, we're still pretty "minimum" compared to what most people think of when they think of an MMO, but there's a pretty robust game in there already. It's a long way more complex than Rust.

Of course, as you said (along with Morbis in the quoted thread), the subscription model adds another element to the equation.

[Summersnow]

Banesama wrote:

Ryan has stated repeatedly on many different forums that EE is going to be Minimum Viable Product. If people go into EE and complain the game isn't complete then that is on them not GW for not listening and reading for months.

While this is true you are missing one key fact.

"Minimum Viable Product" is a completely meaningless statement.

GW did not give detailed enough information during the kickstarter (honestly how could they?), or anytime after as far as I've seen, for people to do anything but form there own personal interpretation of what that phrase means.

Each and every one of us will has a different opinion based on what we read in the kickstarter, emphasis on WHAT WE READ, which is often entirely different then WHAT GW WROTE because they used a lot of catchphrases and vague descriptions of what the product might be like 5-10 years from now, not day 1 EE.

I know I am not getting anything near what I interpreted MVP to mean during the kickstarter and I am not terribly happy about that but I've met a group of people I very much want to play the game with so I'm willing to tolerate it IF it does not hurt the future of the game which is where my major concerns lie now.

I do not want the game to die because it was forced out to meet some specified date before it was ready or because its run over budget and they need to start turning cash.

[Guurzak]

Summersnow wrote:

Each and every one of us will has a different opinion

And each and every one of us will have the opportunity to decide for himself when the game meets his personal definition of viable. Nobody is forced to activate the day he gets his invitation; you'll be able to draw whatever line you like at whatever level of development you like and say "this is where I'm willing to start paying to play this game."

[Kobold Catgirl]

Also, I wouldn't worry about "mainstream" public opinion during EE. The only people around in that time are people who've bought in here—a fraction of those who'll arrive when OE starts.

Besides, who cares when you start using your subscription time? The XP is unchanged. It will only make a difference if you want to be some loser class like druid and don't want to invest in flexibility. If that's so, the solution is simple: Gain XP, but don't train any of it.

["The Goodfellow"]

Also, keep in mind that alpha is NOT NDAed so people can stream and post video's and such so the world can see PFO pre-EE. Granted they can't play for themselves, but they get to see what is being delivered and can begin to build an expectation for EE.

At least that is my take on this.

[Calidor Cruciatus]

"The Goodfellow" wrote:

Also, keep in mind that alpha is NOT NDAed so people can stream and post video's and such so the world can see PFO pre-EE. Granted they can't play for themselves, but they get to see what is being delivered and can begin to build an expectation for EE.

At least that is my take on this.

That is a good point.

Edit to add: But remember that can be a double edged sword. All it takes is a few members who are dissatisfied to spam videos complaining to totally influence the perception about the game.

[Bringslite of Fidelis]

Calidor Cruciatus wrote:

"The Goodfellow" wrote:

Also, keep in mind that alpha is NOT NDAed so people can stream and post video's and such so the world can see PFO pre-EE. Granted they can't play for themselves, but they get to see what is being delivered and can begin to build an expectation for EE.

At least that is my take on this.

That is a good point.

Edit to add: But remember that can be a double edged sword. All it takes is a few members who are dissatisfied to spam videos complaining to totally influence the perception about the game.

I am not sure what more GW can do... They had some kickstarters, they developed the basics of the game that they have described and have been promising. They have a small base of rabid and loyal fans backing them up.

The plan always was to start small, with an MVP. They have been upfront about that. They will grow it slowly, building their target "market slice" as they go, in a transparent manner and with some input from the customer on priority of features (unheard of!).

If they have the MVP that this loyal base (and springboard of the "market slice" they want) has been waiting for and understands, should they delay it and upset that precious core that they have seen develop here?

No. Haters gonna hate no matter what the game is or it's development stage. Lovers gonna love you if you are honest and obvious in your diligence to deliver what you say you will.

[AvenaOats]

There's ppl such as myself that have not played an mmo in a couple of years considering the genre is too primitive (bar eve but I'm putting my resources into PFO being at the start).

The only two things stopping me playing PFO at EE launch are circumstance and if it's poor performance/too buggy.

Otherwise, a small community with relatively wide freedom and a lot of time to build the world, sounds v promising.

Also, third an upgraded video card

I think if EE is a few 000 ppl it's doable and doubly so if the devs are integrated withy eg community, it's another value-added factor. Hopefully this good community too.