Goblin Squad Member
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Are there going to be unique items in PFO? As in: Last boss in Emerald Spire drops the recipe only once with a minuscule dropping chance, requires ridiculous amounts of rare ingredients to craft, only one completed item can be crafted in the crafting process, the recipe is destroyed in the crafting process, possesses a unique name, is better than any item in the previous category of items, no better category of items exists, cannot be threaded or takes all threads, no one uses, loiters in bank. Is it too fringe an element to exist and spend our money on? What do you guys think?
I would definitely love to see unique names on items instead of +5 flaming cold iron longsword etc even though I can live with those also and unique skins. But if they are rare enough I might never see them, which is kind of the way I hope them to be...
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Goblin Squad Member
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GW has been explicit that they don't intend to build a scenario where the boss monster drop rare/unique crafting components which essentially equate to "broken Awesome Sword" that you take to a crafter to complete. Top end player equipment will not rely on rare monster drops, it'll rely on strong logistics and control of dangerous resource locations.
With that said, there is some room for rewarding Bartle "A" type gamers in the form of Artifacts. Artifacts are rewards for completing monster escalations (and possibly other PVE content like dungeon bosses) and give bonuses to buildings or settlements. Those can be handcrafted uniques if GW chooses to go down that path.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I hope that the crafter of an item has some capacity for making them special. Attaching their name, or naming the item, maybe building a following of people who really like your work. It might need to be an XP expense, so that I have an option to spend a piece of my life to make my items unique.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Top end player equipment will not rely on rare monster drops, it'll rely on strong logistics and control of dangerous resource locations.
Well, Ryan said no, what ever that means. He's quite the cryptic dungeon master. But this I understand and it doesn't rule out the fact that such a personal unique item would require such perquisites, if you see what I mean. If the only problem is the uniqueness, I do not see a problem for having such items in the game for flavor. I doubt it would be impossible to balance such items, though undoubtedly that would be the most difficult thing in their implementation. Or they might become ceremonial weapons, armors etc... no, ok.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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The ability to change the name of an item does not make it unique. If names can be changed, everyone will be able to name items equally. The cost of making sure that someone doesn't abuse a naming system is high enough that I doubt it is worthwhile- someone will name a dagger "+5 keen vorpal greatsword", and someone else will name one "You're moms a %\<€#€|}%••£¥". Preventing those names requires human labor, and not preventing them costs customers and brand value.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The ability to change the name of an item does not make it unique. If names can be changed, everyone will be able to name items equally. The cost of making sure that someone doesn't abuse a naming system is high enough that I doubt it is worthwhile- someone will name a dagger "+5 keen vorpal greatsword", and someone else will name one "You're moms a %\<€#€|}%••£¥". Preventing those names requires human labor, and not preventing them costs customers and brand value.
Which is why I would rather crafters be able to attach their names to items, rather than renaming the item. Just a simple "Crafted by X" with the item's info.
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Goblin Squad Member
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...it'll rely on strong logistics...
I've been thinking PFO high-end items are going to be along the lines of the huge EVE ships that require hundreds of hours of crafting *after* thousands of hours of resource-gathering and skill-training. EVE-folk here on these boards who've posted stories, and links to videos, about the losses of those ships, when they occasionally happen, make it sound about a similar level of "the whole River Kingdoms will want to hear this story"-ness.
Of course, we'd thread our ship :-p.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The ability to change the name of an item does not make it unique. If names can be changed, everyone will be able to name items equally. The cost of making sure that someone doesn't abuse a naming system is high enough that I doubt it is worthwhile- someone will name a dagger "+5 keen vorpal greatsword", and someone else will name one "You're moms a %\<€#€|}%••£¥". Preventing those names requires human labor, and not preventing them costs customers and brand value.
Individuals don't have to have the ability to rename. The crafter needs the ability to name the item when they make it, and puts XP into. The only ones who can see the name are those that have access to the object, and if they want a stupid or childish pun in their equipment name, why should anyone care? If someone takes the item from them, and the name bothers them, they can take it to a crafter and pay to have it "re-crafted" with a new name. Just as a person in our world would if they bought a sword with "stupid elvish runes" etched on it. (edit: clarifying if the new owner felt they were stupid, not that were inherently stupid)
This seems absolutely within the realm of normal for an actual craftsman making an actual object for an actual person.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would like the crafter to be able to give an item a name. It would need not have any special qualities. A crafter could call all his swords with a fire type ability "Ash Cloud" or something. Most of the great weapons in fantasy literature have names IE "Greywand" Or "Cats Claw". Although those two did not have any magical properties. Or at least let a player tag a weapon so it has a name, for their own enjoyment.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Putting name or other words with a crafted item is not minimum viable product and has resource and complexity issues. Look to be much later and may involve store. As an example, could more than one person use same label? How much more to have unique or sole user of a label?
Minimum viable product is Goblinworks' job. Crowdforging the ongoing game is our job. I don't be able to expect to name items I make the first day, because nothing I make the first day is going to be so fine as to reflect well on my name. By the time I'm crafting Tier III items, a year, or two, or three from now, I will fell differently.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Putting name or other words with a crafted item is not minimum viable product and has resource and complexity issues. Look to be much later and may involve store. As an example, could more than one person use same label? How much more to have unique or sole user of a label?
Hmm, yeah maybe naming an item should be a store item. A player could purchase the ability to rename an item and send the name they want in for approval. That way they could charge $1 or w/e to cover the costs of having a goblin browse through a list of suggested names once a day to 'ok' them. Of course, a player should thread their named items to avoid losing them =)
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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The ability to change the name of an item does not make it unique. If names can be changed, everyone will be able to name items equally. The cost of making sure that someone doesn't abuse a naming system is high enough that I doubt it is worthwhile- someone will name a dagger "+5 keen vorpal greatsword", and someone else will name one "You're moms a %\<€#€|}%••£¥". Preventing those names requires human labor, and not preventing them costs customers and brand value.Individuals don't have to have the ability to rename. The crafter needs the ability to name the item when they make it, and puts XP into. The only ones who can see the name are those that have access to the object, and if they want a stupid or childish pun in their equipment name, why should anyone care? If someone takes the item from them, and the name bothers them, they can take it to a crafter and pay to have it "re-crafted" with a new name. Just as a person in our world would if they bought a sword with "stupid elvish runes" etched on it. (edit: clarifying if the new owner felt they were stupid, not that were inherently stupid)
This seems absolutely within the realm of normal for an actual craftsman making an actual object for an actual person.
Either the item name is visible when it is advertised for sale, or it isn't. Both are problematic.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Either the item name is visible when it is advertised for sale, or it isn't. Both are problematic.
It needs to be examinable but needn't carry anything other than a "custom name" tag for the base for sale list.
Or let crafters assign two categories of names "personal names" vs. "Crafter names" with the former removable by a buyer at any stage, and the latter persistent.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Which is why I would rather crafters be able to attach their names to items, rather than renaming the item. Just a simple "Crafted by X" with the item's info.
I am a big fan of this. People should know it when they purchase a Zodd weapon, so they know they are buying an item they can trust.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Either the item name is visible when it is advertised for sale, or it isn't. Both are problematic.It needs to be examinable but needn't carry anything other than a "custom name" tag for the base for sale list.
Or let crafters assign two categories of names "personal names" vs. "Crafter names" with the former removable by a buyer at any stage, and the latter persistent.
The core 'problem' that exists is that it requires either Customer Service Goblins to police the names, or allowing (a minority of) players to create obscene or misleading item names.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The core 'problem' that exists is that it requires either Customer Service Goblins to police the names, or allowing (a minority of) players to create obscene or misleading item names.Either the item name is visible when it is advertised for sale, or it isn't. Both are problematic.It needs to be examinable but needn't carry anything other than a "custom name" tag for the base for sale list.
Or let crafters assign two categories of names "personal names" vs. "Crafter names" with the former removable by a buyer at any stage, and the latter persistent.
A name that only a very tiny fraction of people will ever see. Only someone who examines the item up close can see the name. Granted, the misleading names thing could be an issue, so perhaps the "Made by xxx" (and that, pre-manufactured, so that there is no option but the Character name) is really the only simple option. Unfortunate, but c'est le guerre.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I am all for a "crafted by..." label on an item of tier 3. That would be a ways off (time for GW).
We will be dealing with material price gougers, road bandits, weird concept "druid" cults, and all manner of things. Give the crafters some love for goodness sakes!
Would it be appropriate to make a horrible "Give me uber axe of awesomeness and I luv u long time" comment at this point?
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Goblin Squad Member
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...it'll rely on strong logistics...I've been thinking PFO high-end items are going to be along the lines of the huge EVE ships that require hundreds of hours of crafting *after* thousands of hours of resource-gathering and skill-training. EVE-folk here on these boards who've posted stories, and links to videos, about the losses of those ships, when they occasionally happen, make it sound about a similar level of "the whole River Kingdoms will want to hear this story"-ness.
Of course, we'd thread our ship :-p.
Go visit Kevin, the first Titan destroyed in EVE. He's still there.
Or B-5RB... IF YOU DARE.
I'm not sure if there will be anything titanic enough to remain as a permanent object in Golarion after it's destroyed. But if there is, I want to see it (right after I destroy it).
As for the OP, Ryan has answered this question LOTS of times in more detail. So I think he answered with the necessary information and is letting everyone else fill in the explanation this time because he has an alpha to play... I mean game to build.
There was one really good post that listed three attributes that make an idea something the devs would think about. One of them was that thousands of players need to be able to do the thing concurrently, which seems to preclude "have a unique item".