Goblin Squad Member
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OK, here's the info we have so far:
* Each character can belong to up to 3 companies.
* Only the primary company can be a sponsored company.
* Your primary company is awarded full influence based on your achievements.
* Your secondary company earns 50% of the influence that your primary does.
* Your tertiary company gains no influence.
OK. So we all have a pretty clear idea what primary company membership is about: This is the chartered company that represents your main group identity in the game. CCs can establish settlements or own holdings on behalf of their settlements.
And tertiary companies are pretty clearly just a fancy chat channel: these are for real-world friends to stay connected, or inter-settlement communities of interest like trade guilds or scholarly associations. With no influence gain they can't do much in terms of game mechanic impact... but that also means that declining influence gain after 50 members is irrelevant, so they can grow without mechanical limits.
The question becomes, what do we do with secondary companies? A 2C does gain influence but cannot claim territory for their settlement. This means that either they claim a standalone PoI (and must defend it without help from settlement guards), or they use their influence for other things. What kind of other things? Hmmm...
It seems to me that the optimal use for secondary companies based on the info we have so far is feud mechanisms. Where NPC factions give you static hostility with their opposing factions, 2C membership gives you the possibility of constantly changing enemies as feuds begin and end. And while settlements and CC's must allocate influence to major projects like PoI's and wars, 2C's will have the freedom to spend all of their influence on feuds. Basically, joining a 2C is way to turn more names red.
I could see some typical 2C's being things like religious cults, tree-huggers vs bunny-haters, racial factions, or any other grouping intended to generate conflict with opposed groups.
Over-arching political groups are what I'm going for when it comes to secondary companies. I'm in the process of covertly creating several groups that will start and grow once the game starts instead of beforehand. Included are the White Council (good magic practitioners) Winter and Summer Courts (courts of the Fey) and some others TBA. These companies will grow into enormous political powers that will not hold land of their own and aren't meant to declare direct war, but rather use others to gain power. For example the White Council may request a seat in most settlement's politics and the Winter Court may use a Chartered Company as a way to perform a proxy war against the Summer Court.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I see the primary company as being the person's 'nationality', if you will, or 'core identity', which they will want to keep throughout the game, unless some falling out occurs.
The second and third CCs are useful for combined actions of all kinds, between allies, who don't want to change allegiance, or where that would be impractical. These could be for feuds, but not limited to such.
Eg. A NG holy place is discovered partway between LG and CG settlements.
Neither wants the other to annex the site, nor do they want to anger the other by doing so themselves.
Because if one settlement or the other were to do so, it would make the site inaccessible to either the LG citizens of one settlement, or the CG citizens of the other.
But a NG CC could be set up, for interested LG/NG/CG members of both settlements to build and defend a shrine at the site, with the eventual intent of upgrading to a temple.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Actually, I see secondary and tertiary companies as 'companies which haven't been sponsored yet'. My plan is to have a continual rolling cycle where one company is sponsored and providing skill upkeep while the other two are recruiting members to build up influence towards building PoIs and/or settlements. Once one of the growing companies is ready to become part of a settlement the old settlement company is abandoned, the new settlement company becomes the skill upkeep provider, and a new company is created to begin recruiting and continue the cycle.
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Goblin Squad Member
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OK, here's the info we have so far:
* Each character can belong to up to 3 companies.
* Only the primary company can be a sponsored company.
* Your primary company is awarded full influence based on your achievements.
* Your secondary company earns 50% of the influence that your primary does.
* Your tertiary company gains no influence.
Do we actually know that you have to make the Sponsored Company you belong to be the same one that earns 100% Influence? I didn't think that would necessarily be the case.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It seems to me like you could also use your secondary company membership as an "assist" for an allied company, feeding it a portion of your influence for their own needs while not actively participating in it. This could be used as a bargaining tool between smaller companies.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It seems to me like you could also use your secondary company membership as an "assist" for an allied company, feeding it a portion of your influence for their own needs while not actively participating in it. This could be used as a bargaining tool between smaller companies.
But only if that allied second company is not sponsored by any settlement. As Guurzak suggests, funneling influence to non-sponsored military companies could work; most members of such a company would get their training from their primary company's sponsor.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Do we actually know that you have to make the Sponsored Company you belong to be the same one that earns 100% Influence? I didn't think that would necessarily be the case.
We do know that "If you are in charge of a company that owns a PoI this MUST be your primary company."
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2r3aq?Questions-to-the-Developers-Relevant-to#1 1
So if you are in a sponsored company which does not hold a PoI, or not that company's leader, that could in theory not be your primary company. Good catch.
With that said, though, I think it's reasonable to think that a) many or most sponsored companies will hold or intend to hold PoIs at least some of the time, and b) sponsored companies will have greater influence demands due to greater involvement in settlement politics. So even if there are corner cases where you could mechanically choose not to have your sponsored company primary, you'd probably want to make it primary anyway.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Characters can be members of 3 companies. Your primary company (determined by the player) get 100% of your influence gains. Your secondary company gets 50%. Your tertiary company gets 0%. If you are in charge of a company that owns a PoI this MUST be your primary company.
I think this applies only to the PC who is the company leader (i.e., in charge of the company). Other company members will not, I believe, be required to make that PoI owning company their primary if they are not the company leader. But I could be wrong.
The interesting question for me is, if the PoI becomes sponsored by a settlement, does that require all members of the company owning that PoI to become settlement members.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The interesting question for me is, if the PoI becomes sponsored by a settlement, does that require all members of the company owning that PoI to become settlement members.
...and what happens when they can't because the settlement is LG, the company NG, and the individual member CG? Or whatever other circumstance where the member is within one alignment step of the company, but not the settlement.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The interesting question for me is, if the PoI becomes sponsored by a settlement, does that require all members of the company owning that PoI to become settlement members....and what happens when they can't because the settlement is LG, the company NG, and the individual member CG? Or whatever other circumstance where the member is within one alignment step of the company, but not the settlement.
Alignment doesn't seem to be the issue. A sponsored CC must be in line with the settlement alignment. The question is if that makes them automatically citizens of the settlement.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yes, that's pretty clear. Settlements don't sponsor a PoI, they sponsor a company which owns the PoI. When the settlement sponsors the company all members of the company join the settlement- unless they choose to leave the company rather than joining the settlement, e.g. if they are also members of a company which is already sponsored elsewhere.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yes, that's pretty clear. Settlements don't sponsor a PoI, they sponsor a company which owns the PoI. When the settlement sponsors the company all members of the company join the settlement- unless they choose to leave the company rather than joining the settlement, e.g. if they are also members of a company which is already sponsored elsewhere.
That's the way I read it. But if Harad's not sure, then I sure as heck ain't either.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I disagree with a lot said so far....
I see Primary/Secondary companies as tools to lend your influence support to the goals of those companies. Companies seem more like gloves I can put on and take off at a moments notice.
TEO, because of the way we had already set ourselves up, have looked at using the Tertiary as the main TEO company.
Right now the only two restrictions we have on companies is:
1 - The leader has to set the company that owns a PoI as their main.
2 - You can only be in one sponsored company.
I think this system, designed so far, is for versatility and usability. It allows for so much to go on, and allows for groups to hold their territory near their settlements, as well as protect far off places or gain foot holds in other places. Really, the leaders of said groups are the ones that end up sacrificing for the whole, since they can not determine their primary influence company.
I think PoIs also become sponsored, they have mentioned several times now about sending support/guards to sponsored PoIs.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Do characters actually get kicked out at two steps away? Based on rumbles about character alignments impacting settlement alignment, one has to wonder.
Seems like things have been changing over the last few months, muddying the waters so to speak, and perhaps we no longer have a particularly clear idea of how the settlement / company / character relationship is going to work.
Though it does sound like what has been discussed so far at least is based on fairly recent info.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Depending on how some of the contracting systems eventually work having a network of brokers via a tertiary company might make it easier to setup up certain types of contracts without necessarily tying the network to a specific settlement's membership. Since that type of mechanic probably won't rely on influence.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Alignment doesn't seem to be the issue. A sponsored CC must be in line with the settlement alignment. The question is if that makes them automatically citizens of the settlement.
Actually, I'd reverse these. I have seen plenty of dev statements that all members of a company automatically become settlement members when that company is sponsored. I haven't seen any dev statements that settlements can only sponsor companies of exactly the same alignment... though obviously that would make the transfer of membership scenario work smoothly.
There are also weird cases where an individual character is a member of a company AND a member of a settlement... and then the company becomes sponsored by a different settlement. Which settlement does the individual character then belong to? Are they kicked out of their existing settlement? Kicked out of the company? Given some amount of time to choose which to remain in?
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Goblin Squad Member
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* Only the primary company can be a sponsored company.
Do you have a source for that ? The only thing I am aware by GW's word is that if you're managing a PoI and your company is sponsored *then* it must be your primary company.
There are also weird cases where an individual character is a member of a company AND a member of a settlement... and then the company becomes sponsored by a different settlement. Which settlement does the individual character then belong to? Are they kicked out of their existing settlement? Kicked out of the company? Given some amount of time to choose which to remain in?
Nothing happen, being member of a settlement and of a company are unrelated. My understanding is that you gain the settlement benefit if your company is sponsored by said settlement, but you do not become a member of the settlement which is a separate and specific action.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Why only POIs and Feuds?
Influence has a number of varied uses to complement a company's chosen focus. We'll cover influence mechanics in more detail in a later blog post, but here's a quick overview:
All companies may use influence to forge alliances with other companies or settlements, usually to establish trade arrangements or provide mutual security.
For empire-builders, influence is spent to claim territory in the Crusader Road region. When a company clears the dangerous inhabitants from wilderness hex, they may spend their influence to claim that location for their own.
For mercenaries, bandits, and agitators, influence can be used to declare a feud—a state of PvP hostilities like a war between settlements, but at shorter notice and for a shorter period—against another company or settlement.
For traders and crafters, influence can be spent on boons to help dominate an economy or profession, and on shoring up caravan defenses when transporting goods across the lands.
Finally, for adventuring companies, influence can be spent to claim great rewards from successful escalation cycles, either for the benefit of the company itself or for its sponsoring settlement.
I could see a PvE mercenary "guild" set:
- Its 1C to build a sponsored settlement.
- Its 2C to boost PvE rewards, say clearing escalations or running Emerald Spire.
- Its 3C to, I don't know. Mercenary's-R-Us?
I'm keen on boosts to economy and professions. What adventurers are going to turn down "great rewards" from the stuff they already do? Feuds and land may be what we're focusing on now because we're all here because of the Land Rush, but I think a lot of players in the future will be focused more on PvE content uses of influence. When you want a PUG group of friend/ally players to just go clear out some mobs, why not be in a secondary company picking up bonus rewards? I think there are a ton of uses for secondary companies beyond feuds.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Over-arching political groups are what I'm going for when it comes to secondary companies. I'm in the process of covertly creating several groups that will start and grow once the game starts instead of beforehand. Included are the White Council (good magic practitioners) Winter and Summer Courts (courts of the Fey) and some others TBA. These companies will grow into enormous political powers that will not hold land of their own and aren't meant to declare direct war, but rather use others to gain power. For example the White Council may request a seat in most settlement's politics and the Winter Court may use a Chartered Company as a way to perform a proxy war against the Summer Court.
Someones been reading a wee bit too much dresden files
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Goblin Squad Member
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Religions are factions, which adds to the associations a character may have.
Can those religious factions found POI shrines, or would they need to form a non-sponsored (as they cover many settlements) company to found the POI (or multiple POI)?
There are NPC factions which players can join, including religious factions such as the Cult of Norgorber. NPC factions will not claim or manage PoIs, but may have their own static infrastructure locations.
If you want a player-owned shrine it would have to be owned by a player-created company with a religious theme.
A single company can only own/manage one PoI.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Actually, I'd reverse these. I have seen plenty of dev statements that all members of a company automatically become settlement members when that company is sponsored. I haven't seen any dev statements that settlements can only sponsor companies of exactly the same alignment... though obviously that would make the transfer of membership scenario work smoothly.
Last I saw (I think) was that a company had to be within one step of the settlement alignment and that the members of company must be within one step from the company alignment. If true that would significantly lessen the alignment restrictions enough to get a decent amount of variety in a settlement.
Now you might assume this means TN gets a lot of variety, but I think having that large an alignment spread is going to cause them problems in trying to balance settlement facilities for all those alignments, at least for the more advanced types of training.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Do characters actually get kicked out at two steps away?
If their Active Alignment is two steps away, they do not get kicked out. Only when their Core Alignment is two steps away do they get kicked out.
Guurzak's making some very clear deductions.
If you are in charge of a company that owns a PoI this MUST be your primary company.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Last I saw (I think) was that a company had to be within one step of the settlement alignment and that the members of company must be within one step from the company alignment. If true that would significantly lessen the alignment restrictions enough to get a decent amount of variety in a settlement.
Unsponsored companies have no alignment stance. A paladin and a CE barbarian can be in the same company.
Sponsored companies, we must assume, inherit the same alignment stance as their sponsoring settlement. What happens to incompatible-alignment characters when the charter is offered has not been stated but we can reasonably speculate that noncompatible members will either have to be manually booted before the charter can become effective, or will automatically be booted when it is accepted.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Last I saw (I think) was that a company had to be within one step of the settlement alignment and that the members of company must be within one step from the company alignment. If true that would significantly lessen the alignment restrictions enough to get a decent amount of variety in a settlement.Unsponsored companies have no alignment stance. A paladin and a CE barbarian can be in the same company.
Sponsored companies, we must assume, inherit the same alignment stance as their sponsoring settlement. What happens to incompatible-alignment characters when the charter is offered has not been stated but we can reasonably speculate that noncompatible members will either have to be manually booted before the charter can become effective, or will automatically be booted when it is accepted.
I believe that the bolded is incorrect. Do you have a source?
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Goblin Squad Member
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http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qyx8&page=3?Settlement-Crosstraining-allow able#102
"A paladin and a barbarian COULD be in the same COMPANY, however, since there are no alignment restrictions on non-sponsored companies. These individuals could be in different settlements (or all be in NPC settlements) and still in a non-sponsored company with each other. So they can still adventure together if they wish - they just cant live together."
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Goblin Squad Member
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Guurzak, a bit further down the same thread Tork corrected himself;
Tork Shaw wrote: Correct! Stephen just pointed this out too. My bad. However, its likely that buildings will carry their own specific restrictions - which means you may be able to pop a paladin support structure in a NG settlement but to stick a Chapter House in there (the paladin specific training facility) you would need your settlement to be LG.
We have a LOT of granularity because each structure can have its own alignment/rep/factional requirements.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Based on the quotes CBDunkerson references I think that confirms my personal suspicions that even if they allow 2 step alignment membership from settlement to individual via company, the hard decisions for facility makeup is going to restrict how effective you can be for a broad swath of Alignments. Ideally you will probably want to be one step or matching the settlement to insure most of it's specialized/advanced facilities will be of use to you.
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Hm. Judging by that, it's possible that a merely CN settlement like Aragon or Freevale won't be able to offer the full range of options to its CE and CG members.
That's encouraging. I really don't want Neutral to be the "Why aren't you Neutral, you moron?" alignment.
EDIT: You might say that NEUTRAL shouldn't stand for
Nevr
Even
Use
The
Retarded*
Alternative
Alignments
Except you shouldn't say that. Because it's a terrible acronym that's not even a real acronym.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm pretty sure they mean a Lawful Good Paladin and a Chaotic Good Barbarian can join the same Neutral Good Company.
I would imagine Companies Alignment Restrictions are also based on Core Alignment, so that a Barbarian could join as Chaotic Good then slip his Active Alignment to Chaotic Evil without getting automatically kicked out until he changed his Core Alignment to something two or more steps from Neutral Good.