Spellbook and scroll


Rules Questions


Our 3 level party have discovered several spellbooks, ranging from level 1 up to level 5. I´m playing a wizard with INT 17, and I thinking about copying some spells.
If I meet the requirements, can I copy a 5 level spell into my spellbook, make a scroll, and then cast it from the scroll? Or a level 3 or 4 spell?

Asmo


no, you can't learn spells of a higher level than you can cast. And you can't make scrolls of spells you don't know.

When you are high enough level, you can "learn" another's spellbook with a single check and no special ink, rather than writing each spell into your own spellbook.

Liberty's Edge

You can copy the spell it into your spell book now. You cannot cast a spell, nor make a scroll of it, until you are able to cast it.

See the section in the Magic Chapter under the heading "Spells Copied From Another's Spellbook or Scroll." There is nothing here to say you must be of a level to cast it befor putting it into your Spellbook. Rather, the word, "whenever" is just one example of how this passage is quite permissive.


I can´t find anything in the rules about this. Where is it written?

"Spells Copied from Another's Spellbook or a Scroll: A wizard can also add a spell to his book whenever he encounters one on a magic scroll or in another wizard's spellbook. No matter what the spell's source, the wizard must first decipher the magical writing (see Arcane Magical Writings). Next, he must spend 1 hour studying the spell. At the end of the hour, he must make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell's level). A wizard who has specialized in a school of spells gains a +2 bonus on the Spellcraft check if the new spell is from his specialty school. If the check succeeds, the wizard understands the spell and can copy it into his spellbook (see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook). The process leaves a spellbook that was copied from unharmed, but a spell successfully copied from a magic scroll disappears from the parchment."

to me it seems that it´s possible to copy a higher level spell.


Ah, that seems logical.


Howie23 wrote:

You can copy the spell it into your spell book now. You cannot cast a spell, nor make a scroll of it, until you are able to cast it.

See the section in the Magic Chapter under the heading "Spells Copied From Another's Spellbook or Scroll." There is nothing here to say you must be of a level to cast it befor putting it into your Spellbook. Rather, the word, "whenever" is just one example of how this passage is quite permissive.

Looking at the rules again, I agree there is nothing I can point to to deny copying higher level spells by RAW.

But writing spells into a spellbook is how a wizard learns new spells, and it's not possible to learn spells without sufficient class levels.
It's not a big deal, as the spell is useless until the wizard reaches high enough level. But - for flavor reasons (and other rules on this) - I still wouldn't allow it.

Grand Lodge

DonDuckie wrote:
Howie23 wrote:

You can copy the spell it into your spell book now. You cannot cast a spell, nor make a scroll of it, until you are able to cast it.

See the section in the Magic Chapter under the heading "Spells Copied From Another's Spellbook or Scroll." There is nothing here to say you must be of a level to cast it befor putting it into your Spellbook. Rather, the word, "whenever" is just one example of how this passage is quite permissive.

Looking at the rules again, I agree there is nothing I can point to to deny copying higher level spells by RAW.

But writing spells into a spellbook is how a wizard learns new spells, and it's not possible to learn spells without sufficient class levels.
It's not a big deal, as the spell is useless until the wizard reaches high enough level. But - for flavor reasons (and other rules on this) - I still wouldn't allow it.

And, for both flavor and treasure value reasons, you would be incorrect.

As lkong as the wizard can meet botht eh SPellcraft DC (and he can take 10 for it) and the scribing costs, there is no reason against, and several reasons for, being able to write higher level spells in his spellbook.

For one, it gives a wizard, and his party, a benefit for defeating a high CR spellcasting opponent. And, for second, it gives the wizard something better than two spells to choose from to learn when he reaches the level where he can cast spells of that level.

Which can be a downside, if your wizard player suffers from choice-lock. ;)

It also explains how, say, a 9th level wizard NPC has more than just two 5th level spells in his spellbook when the PCs' "acquire" it...


DonDuckie wrote:
Howie23 wrote:

You can copy the spell it into your spell book now. You cannot cast a spell, nor make a scroll of it, until you are able to cast it.

See the section in the Magic Chapter under the heading "Spells Copied From Another's Spellbook or Scroll." There is nothing here to say you must be of a level to cast it befor putting it into your Spellbook. Rather, the word, "whenever" is just one example of how this passage is quite permissive.

Looking at the rules again, I agree there is nothing I can point to to deny copying higher level spells by RAW.

But writing spells into a spellbook is how a wizard learns new spells, and it's not possible to learn spells without sufficient class levels.
It's not a big deal, as the spell is useless until the wizard reaches high enough level. But - for flavor reasons (and other rules on this) - I still wouldn't allow it.

There is no RAW placing a restriction on learning(scribing into a spellbook) the spell. There is RAW stating when they can be cast.

Quote:
To learn, prepare, or cast a spell, the wizard must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a wizard's spell is 10 + the spell level + the wizard's Intelligence modifier.


:) did you two not read my first sentence?

@kinevon:
I sincerely apologize for having wrong flavor reasons, my bad.

As for treasure value: when the party wizard writes a spell into his spellbook is irrelevant, holding on to a higher level spellbook and studying it when he reaches high enough level has the same value.

the 9th level NPC could have studied extra spells while being 9th level, NPCs usually don't level every week... also (very important to me) he doesn't need an explanation. And I think it's unreasonable to expect a 9th level wizard NPC to have higher than 5th level spells.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

I can certainly envision a high level spellcaster forcing his low level apprentice to scribe spells into his books for him, even though said apprentice doesn't have the arcane control to make use of the incantations. As long as he's intelligent enough to understand them, he should be able to reproduce them (hence the INT requirement listed above).


As long as you understand that putting them into your spellbook is different than actually being able to cast them right that second, you're good. Level restrictions still apply; you can't be throwing around Disintegrates at level 1 just because you managed to pull off some Spellcraft checks and find a scroll.


Puna'chong wrote:

As long as you understand that putting them into your spellbook is different than actually being able to cast them right that second, you're good. Level restrictions still apply; you can't be throwing around Disintegrates at level 1 just because you managed to pull off some Spellcraft checks and find a scroll.

Well, if you have the scroll, you can cast it from that :P okay, I'll stop...

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