Ok what do you build with 1 point buy? (few rules changes)


Advice


No one seemed interested in the other post so...

You will gain a stat point every level. Every 4th level you gain a second stat point, this point for a second attribute.

Remove all stat prereq's for all feats.

Pet classes will have their pets attributes significantly nerfed to compensate (details not yet hashed out).


In other words, what would you build if stats were irrelevant? Is that what you are getting at?


I would go with something pretty basic, like a strength-based fighter. That allows you to focus primarily on Strength and Constitution, and dump a lot of other stats and keep you almost as competitive as you would have been before.


So... you just get your racial modifiers and the 1 point past your straight 10's?

In that case, a Scarred Witch Doctor is really the only class SAD enough to work.


Dump strength and charisma to 7 and buy a 14 intelligence and 12 constitution and dexterity I think. Go Wizard, Witch, or Sage Sorcerer. Race? Most likely Tiefling. From there get con to 14 and then intelligence the rest of the way.


Adnd char at this point ... point in cha, i stick in town and roleplay till gm turn himself over to the sanatorium. I know i can do it and you know i want to do it.


>face palm<…

Dark Archive

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Agothian-Blooded Aasimar Sorcerer? Str 7 Int: 7 Wis: 10 Dex: 10 C: 14 Ch: 16

Stat point every level for a caster = win. You're just encouraging people to min-max one stat EVEN more.


SAD classes dominate.

MAD classes have the mud they're in become quicksand.


I meant strait 10's then racials. Oops.

Quote:
In other words, what would you build if stats were irrelevant? Is that what you are getting at?

Yeah kinda what I'm trying to get at. I think I'm failing.


I suggest you also give no points for dumping a stat, in that case.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Anything for a non-heroic campaign, where PCs are still fairly close in ability to average people of their own kind.


NPC with no heroic levels get 3 points. You'd be worse than the average expert/farmer/warrior at level 1.


Yeah, but the points per level ended up favoring SAD classes too much. 1 point in every stat every 4 levels is closer to what I wanted to accomplish.


Daenar wrote:
NPC with no heroic levels get 3 points. You'd be worse than the average expert/farmer/warrior at level 1.

So you're playing the town f!*&-up?

Grand Lodge

Just to confirm, you get all stats at 10, one stat at 11. At each level the 11 stat goes up one (12 at 2, 14 at 4, so on). At 4 you chose another stat, it goes to 11 and then goes up by one as well each level. So theoretically a martial with str chosen first and dex second at lvl 6 would be 16 str/12 dex/10 all other stats.

If that is the case, my obvious choice would be a barbarian in a race that chooses a stat to boost. Add the racial boost to str so at lvl 1 you get 13/10/10/10/10/10. Raging you get 17/10/14/10/10/10. Use a 2 hander or 1 hander/shield. At 4 either throw next stat into con or dex, depending on need for ac or hp/rage. I would personally go 2 hander with dex at 4. Decent hit/damage, which scales pretty well (30 base strength at lvl 20).


Daniel, yes you have the right idea with what I was saying. This experiment didn't work the way I was intending.

Grand Lodge

It gave me good insight into some of the minds of the posters on this board, so was successful to that degree at least.

Dark Archive

It's still the caster's game. They just level up the casting stat; they'll be functionally better than any other single-stated guy.


So, how does it change if you get 1 point in 5 attributes of your choice each 4 levels? You can switch which attribute doesn't get a point each time if you like.


Thalin wrote:
It's still the caster's game. They just level up the casting stat; they'll be functionally better than any other single-stated guy.

This.

If they go up one point per level, starting at 11 (or 13, depending on whether racial boosts are still happening), then by 20th level they'll be at 30-32 for their primary casting stat naturally. They really don't come out any worse. If they can still add on boosts from tomes/wishes, enhancement items, age modifiers and the like, then they actually come out of it better.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Druid, or Nature/Lunar Oracle.

Boost caster stat, and focus completely on the companion.

As no martial will be able to function/survive, the companion will function as the the main martial.

Of course, focusing entirely on Diplomacy and/or Enchantment will work as well, and you can convince the Village Idiot to fight for you, as he will be a superior martial PC.


Rylar wrote:
So, how does it change if you get 1 point in 5 attributes of your choice each 4 levels? You can switch which attribute doesn't get a point each time if you like.

It doesn't. Caster's aren't powerful because they are SAD. Attributes have very little to do with it. Its the casting that makes them what they are.

Messing with the way attributes are gained doesn't change that.


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Why does this forum go into apoplexy whenever anything other than ONE MILLION point-buy is mentioned?

The DM's a troll!!!

Martials are useless!!!

Aliens are taking over the world!!!

----------------------------------------------

OP: what are you trying to achieve with this (and the other thread you mention)?


Dragonamedrake wrote:
Rylar wrote:
So, how does it change if you get 1 point in 5 attributes of your choice each 4 levels? You can switch which attribute doesn't get a point each time if you like.

It doesn't. Caster's aren't powerful because they are SAD. Attributes have very little to do with it. Its the casting that makes them what they are.

Messing with the way attributes are gained doesn't change that.

It would weaken casters quite a lot.

At level 1 you start with something like all stats 10 except Int of 13.
At level 4, 8, 12 the wizard can increase all but one of his stats by 1. Let's say he neglects charisma. At level 12-15 he would have Int of 16, and other stats (except charisma) 13, plus any bonuses for items. Any Save Negates spells he casts would be likely to fail.
On the other hand, these stats aren't great for martials either.

Liberty's Edge

+1 to five stats every two levels might work.

That's give people a 14 at level 2, a 16 at level 6, an 18 at level 10, and a 23 at level 20. Their other stats they cared about would all be three points lower or so, assuming they left one stat at 10.

This really screws people playing against type, though. Melee Halflings or Dwarf Wizards are pretty thoroughly screwed.

Recalculating skill points every two levels would also be pretty annoying.

Honestly, if the idea is to keep SAD classes less advantageous, just use a mandated, and pretty balanced, stat array, for example:

14, 14, 14, 13, 12, 10

That's 20 point-buy...but not very good for SAD classes. It'll do for most Martials, though, if not quite as ideally as a more focused one. It'll still be pretty unpleasant for those playing against type, of course.

For my own games, I do a significantly less extreme version of this by capping abilities at 16 before racial mods (and having no more than one stat lower than 10, and even that one no lower than 8) with 25 point-buy. That allows for two 16s and a 14, which helps MAD classes quite a bit, and keeps there from being any starting 20s, which restricts SAD ones a little.


This feels really clunky.
What are you trying to accomplish with this?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Indeed.

What's the endgoal here?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Ditto...let's examine the goal of the game before analyzing builds or such. What are you shooting for in this campaign/game?

Another thing to consider other than the fact that players won't be "Big D*mn Heroes" but rather "town scr*wballs" as the town cook will be a better fighter, the town adept will be a superior caster, etc...is that pet classes become much stronger as pet stats are not subject to point-buy.

Like...the summoner or druid. Or nature oracle. Or sylvan sorcerer.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
MacFetus wrote:

Why does this forum go into apoplexy whenever anything other than ONE MILLION point-buy is mentioned?

The DM's a troll!!!

Martials are useless!!!

Aliens are taking over the world!!!

----------------------------------------------

OP: what are you trying to achieve with this (and the other thread you mention)?

There is a pretty big difference between 'nothing less then a million points ruins the world' and the idea that characters would have some serious trouble functioning with a 1 point buy.

Its pretty factual that without some dex, con and strength, basic martial characters will struggle mightily. Imagine the fighter wasting with a 12-13 AC and a +1 to hit. He'd be less capable then the CR 1/4 goblin that is supposed to be a minor threat to him.

Low point buys, and even low stats favor certain kinds of characters vs others. And sure by the time you got to like level 12 you'd have some nice and well rounded stats...but thats a long way to go with being the bumbling idiot (by which I mean failing alot at your chosen task). And I am definately not the pay for play type. I like characters to actually work from the moment I start playing them.


going single stat, I say summoner all the way. With a five level spell progression the stat increase every four levels will allow them to keep pace and not lose any casting capabilities. As most of their spells are buffs the save dc is less important. and as for combat, their eidolon and/or summons will do most the heavy lifting there. They are the least stat dependent class I can think of.


Pupsocket wrote:
Halfling Barbarian. Because at this point it's clear that the GM is trolling us with stupid s@&&, so I'm going to troll right back. I will name him Bob, and put a thick pile of sequentially numbered character sheets - Bob2, Bob3 etc - on the table. I might even go the extra mile and spiral-back them, so I can rip out a character sheet, ready to play the next Bob.

Don't scoff at the halfling barbarian. I played one in a game and the groups biggest min/maxer scoffed, saying "you can't play a barbarian with a race that penalized strength" the character was super fun and did more damage then anyone else. Because even halfling barbarians are scary.


Quote:
What are you trying to accomplish with this?

The first goal was the avoidance of rocket tag. Started with all 18's thus forcing players to utilize stats they would typically ignore in order to focus on maxing out damage. If players are forced into more con, they will have more health and be able to take a hit.

Switching to the all 10's +1 was to tune it the opposite direction. Instead of giving more health it would cut the damage down. This also gave power back to racial stats and spell buffs.


Rylar wrote:
Quote:
What are you trying to accomplish with this?

The first goal was the avoidance of rocket tag. Started with all 18's thus forcing players to utilize stats they would typically ignore in order to focus on maxing out damage. If players are forced into more con, they will have more health and be able to take a hit.

Switching to the all 10's +1 was to tune it the opposite direction. Instead of giving more health it would cut the damage down. This also gave power back to racial stats and spell buffs.

I'm still not sure "what you're trying to accomplish." Clearly you see a problem, but I don't see the problem you see.

Just as an example, "forcing placers to utilize stats they would typically ignore" doesn't really do anything of the sort, does it? If I want to play a wizard, giving me an 18 constitution gives me more hit points but doesn't force me to stand in the front lines with a sword in my hand, despite my 18 strength.

The all 10s similarly just makes characters less effective, but again giving a wizard an intelligence of 10 won't put a sword in her hands.


Rylar wrote:
Quote:
What are you trying to accomplish with this?

The first goal was the avoidance of rocket tag. Started with all 18's thus forcing players to utilize stats they would typically ignore in order to focus on maxing out damage. If players are forced into more con, they will have more health and be able to take a hit.

Gee, that's easy. First, make you you have 4 encounters per day on average. Next, add a few mooks. No points back for Dumping. Max 16 in any stat at start- after racial. You're the DM, you can easily make 10 round combats.


Except of course, DrDeth, that you also have to modify the monsters (or deliberately handicap them through the way you play them I suppose...) After all, the monsters DO play Rocket Tag before and after a certain point. (Levels 1-2 or 3 and above level 6ish)

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