Creating an optimized group of adversaries

[taldanrebel2187]

How would you create 5 adventurers to challenge your players? Think a rival party. The enemies are level two NPCs. They have PC wealth and feats/abilities that are totally optimized, and optimized spells, SLA and so forth.

1) What is the party layout? Who is the leader?

2) Battle tactics?

3)What feats should they take?

I'm not looking for full stat blocks of course, just ideas (:

[Create Mr. Pitt]

It depends on the opposing party. Describe your adventurers if you would.

[Vaellen]

I guess it depends if you want to challenge them or kill them? If you want to TPK them go with 5 barbarians.

For a rival party maybe
Dervish Dance bard
Teleportation wizard
Battle Oracle
Archer Slayer
Melee Druid.

[chaoseffect]

Level 2 is a bit early to come up with anything crazy but if you want hardcore ideas for level 2...

-Color Spray specialist Dual Cursed Heavens Oracle, Gnome for the +1 to illusion DC. Take Spell Focus or Improved Initiative. Take Misfortune as your Revelation to force rerolls versus anyone who makes it.
-Human Fighter Archer, pump Dex and Strength and give the appropriate composite longbow. Feats = point blank shot, precise shot, rapid shot, deadly aim. Targets casters first.
-Barbarian with pumped strength, Power Attack, and a falchion. Armored Hulk archetype for the extra defense? Maybe be human and take Improved Shield Slam and two hand a heavy shield instead of falchion?
-Slumber based witch with Ability Focus. If you aren't going to use spells on her maybe put her in heavy armor and a tower shield too so she can be safe while being within 30 feet of the party; doesn't disrupt supernatural abilities any, though she will never cast or make a successful attack roll.
-Synthesist Summoner. Quadruped with Pounce and Power Attack.

Tactics: The Oracle ideally starts combat hidden and to the side and then moves in to hit the party with Color Spray, leaving the NPC party out; Misfortune to force a reroll on a PC who makes it. He also spot heals as necessary. Barbarian and Synthesist charge in wreck anything they can reach. Archer pinpoints anyone who looks like a healer and then a mage. Witch wades in close to soak up potential hits with the stupipd high AC and Slumber/Cackles anyone who does not look like a caster.

I don't know who would be the leader here. I also think such a party would stand a good chance of TPKing your party, so perhaps reconsider going for "optimized" when your PCs have less than 20 HP.

[Renegadeshepherd]

taldanrebel2187 wrote:

How would you create 5 adventurers to challenge your players? Think a rival party. The enemies are level two NPCs. They have PC wealth and feats/abilities that are totally optimized, and optimized spells, SLA and so forth.

1) What is the party layout? Who is the leader?

2) Battle tactics?

3)What feats should they take?

I'm not looking for full stat blocks of course, just ideas (:

There is a lot of wiggle room here so it's a matter of taste more than anything but I can make a go of it.

First, you said a rival party. To me that means that the group you choose is one that will be around awhile and return again some day. Based on this I would make a rival party that was strong and optimized as you said but hadn't hit its stride just yet. Make em soft enough to be beat this time without a random thing like dice rolls decide outcome but strong enough that the second time they are DEADLY. There are plenty of character types that match this well. Examples include clerics or oracles without their higher tier domain or revelation powers, dragon disciples, base sorcerers, and such.

Conversely, perhaps only a part of the rival party will return. In such a case you could bring a couple of NPCs that have hit their stride such as a zen archer monk. They would be valuable at this level but if he dies or fails to escape then be served his purpose.

Concerning the leader, there are three ways any true leader is ever chosen unless you bring a "birthright" arguement into it. The leader is the percieved most charismatic or the biggest mouth, the leader is the percieved smartest, the leader is the percieved most powerful. The last one is the tricky one as it can mean many things. A wealthy man with status could be the most powerful just as easily as a freakishly strong brute of a half orc can be; and everything in between. Remember that the perception is the key.

My personal Idea of the "best" leader is one that can rise to any challenge and help his men and women do better. As TarkXT termed a combination of arm and hammer. Because of the support or arm role the most likely classes will be full casters but a multiclassed character like bard/paladin would do this also.

I have to leave for a moment but ill be back with more shortly.

[Renegadeshepherd]

here is a party that could be useful but I warn against it being potent even at these low levels. these are also made with a return at higher levels being kept in mind.

1) The Shield: Take tower shield and the best heavy armor you can with from fighter 1 and combine it with gunslinger 1 OR alchemist 1 to rain death with your free hand. Human is best for this I think but a base tiefling would certainly be strong candidate and he has natural armor :) .

2) The Leader: Human cleric of X who grants rulership negative channel. A charismatic fellow who channels and possibly makes the whole PC party skip their turn while dealing pitiful damage to them. Perhaps he is a theologian that took leadership so he can boost two of his friends with +2 to AC and such just for a little more flavor. take selective channel and improved channel for a 17-ish DC.

3) The Pouncer: Half elf Synthesist summoner, nuff said.

4) The Shooting Monkey: Human ranger with archery style. Adds up to 3 feats worth so its not as good as a human fighter of the same type of combat style. However, this character has the advantage of bringing skills (for realism) plus he brings an animal companion later in his career. Shoot the caster ASAP.

5) The fireman: A witch based on slumber is probably best but frankly I don't think you can go wrong with a witch. Im not sure there is a better class to fill a hole in a crucial moment than the witch so there you go. Ideally id rather see a scarred witch doctor but its hard to go wrong with a witch to cover the issues. Any hex that reduces the saves of the enemy for the sake of the leader is prime.

Tactics: a LOT. The witch or cleric needs to go first if possible. witch either slumber one weak willed victim or hex to make sure the clerics daze effect hits the best target. Whatever doesn't get dazed gets attacked or killed.

The Pouncer and the Shield get in front and stay in front covering each other while inflicting pain. The Shooting Monkey stays mobile and shoots from the flanks to make sure they hit and hit often. The Leader stays just behind the front line and boosts. The fireman goes where the fire is.

Comments: The Leader is what makes this ridiculous at this low level and should probably not be allowed honestly. The spellcasting abilities of this party is very strong as well and may need a scale back. BTW, if a single level 3 were allowed a human fighter 1/paladin 2 based on combat reflexes, bodyguard, and harms way would be EXCELLENT for further group dynamics. The Shield just eats up the squishy guys damage, heals 1D6 as a swift to himself, then shoots the guy that did the deed.

Hope you like something.