Player Attacked Lonjiku Kaijitzu, what to do?


Rise of the Runelords


Alright now the first thing I want to say is that I'm not looking for any answer other than a realistic one on how something like this would be handled by the town of Sandpoint.

I have a RotR group who are still in the early stages of the game. For those of you who have played it, and especially those who have run it, at some point after the goblin raid you know that Lonjiku enters the Rusty Dragon bickering. When he sets eyes on the PC's, he is insulting, this is how he is suppose to be played.

The gist of this is that our barbarian wound up bashing him over the head, but for those of you who are like me and would like all the info for yourself to feel comfortable judging, here are all the quotes from when he entered until or barbarian whacked him in the head, I left nothing out.

Now I know that this is obviously illegal, as well as it's amusing and also a likely thing for a barbarian to do, legal or not. None the less, there would be consequences. My question is, what type of punishment would Sandpoint realistically put to our barbarian?

Lonjiku:

Aldern fills in Eleazar if no one else does, and then one of his servants bring him a bag of 50gp.

After a bit longer Ameiko brings out plates for everyone in the restaurant. The food is cooked in an exotic manner, something you've never tasted but top notch (Think Chinese food to medieval Europeans). The free meal coupled with your presence is the cause for a great deal of merriment, until suddenly a surly middle aged man burst through the door barking in Minkain. The inn becomes quiet as most of its occupants become focused on their food. As soon as his eyes catch sight of your table he laughs and makes his way to you. "Well well, if it isn't Sandpoints newest batch of ruffian trouble makers. You know you need to leave your ill advised antics to that of the town militia less more people get hurt!"

then Nic Responds.

Nic:

Not one to normally stand to nobles or those of such bearing, the old man's attitude is unbecoming, especially in public. Good sir, you make for offense. Master Foxglove is no ruffian nor does he make for trouble. Lady Ameiko honors us in her lodgings. As for "antics", for myself and my friends we prevented the peoples from being hurt by these goblins. The creatures came not of our making, and not of our presence. They sought I think to disrupt your festival and steal away your pets, ja. We saved lives, and we with gratitude thank the generous peoples of Sandpoint. You dishonor both yelling and flailing like a drunken dinlo gavve.

"Good gods above, save the fFolk from the peoples in their kindnesses."

Then Narvolo, the barbarian

Narvolo:

Looking up from his food stained mouth, Narvolo says, "Narvolo kin dink of someone who aboud do gid hurd." Narvolo slowly puts one hand on DOOM BRINGER's handle.

Then our little kobold named Kus-Kus

Kus-Kus:

Kus-Kus remains quiet as Lonjiku burst in, probably wasted off his rocker. He knew the surly old dotard, and Apsu knows he clashed with the old man on more than one occasion. But he behaved himself, for the moment; this was Ameiko's place, and she liked to keep things in order her way.

But when old man Kaijitzu stomped his way to their table, Kus-Kus bared his little fangs at the 'gentleman.' "Two things, old man: this guy here has a gigantic hammer, and I will sic him on you. Unless 'meiko gets here first."

Kus-Kus glowered at Lonjiku, before smirking as he tossed a bit of meat in his maw. "Besides, shouldn't you be worrying about the antics in your own family before worrying about ours? Like your kids? ...or Mrs. Kaijitzu...?"

The Lonjiku again

Lonjiku:

"A Varisian speaking to me of honor? Excuse me, I've a farmer to speak to. I would not be surprised to find that his swine had taken flight." He then looks to Narvolo, "And as for you my boy. It's quite apparent you'r not the sharpest tool in the shed, in fact more like the door knob, so I'll explain this to you slowly," he gets wide eyed and slowly, insultingly says "If you... were to lay one of your brutish fingers... anywhere I displease... I will have them cut off and fed to you. Now if your at least smart enough to understand this, then please relay this message. Tell your little green friend that I don't speak goblin, and that he needs a bath."

Suddenly Ameiko comes out from the kitchen with a soup ladle in her hand and they immediatly begin to argue in Mankaian.

And then finally, this

Narvolo:

Narvolo draws DOOM BRINGER and moves to Lonjiku (free action to draw it with combination of move action since my BAB is +1), enters rage (free action) and smashes Lonjiku.

Earth Breaker Attack: 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (8) + 7 = 15
Damage if hit: 2d6 + 9 ⇒ (4, 2) + 9 = 15

After this Lonjiku took a full withdraw and left, swearing vengence.


jimibones83 wrote:
My question is, what type of punishment would Sandpoint realistically put to our barbarian?

Arrest him, throw him in jail for assault, and then the player would have to reroll or roleplay HAPPYPRISONTIME! which isn't as happy as it sounds.

More seriously, I always let things like that slide unless it causes too much harm.


HAPPYPRISONTIME can translate into awesome prisonbreak scene. (Or just going on the lamb before the authorities can lock him up.)


I know a lot of people would probably let it slide. I guess I'm just the type that believes if there would be consequences then there should be consequences, and it was 15 points of damage to a noble in public.

Sandpoint is a NG town though, so I think I can get away with something less than locking him up and throwing away the key, though I still think it should be serious.

I'm kinda thinking 100 gp, 10 lashes, 10 days in the clink, and release him exhausted?

Sczarni

If you were feeling lenient, you could probably argue that the barbarian's role in saving the town from the goblin raid has earned him one free pass, but have the sheriff give him the eye and make it clear that he won't look the other way a second time.

Or you could have the barbarian spend a night in the "drunk tank" (the cell they leave open for folks who are known to be upstanding citizens when sober but get rowdy when drunk-- every rural village with a sheriff has one) and in the morning Ameiko can bail him out and lecture him on why he needs to never do it again.

Both options are basically a slap on the wrist, but get the message across to the player not to assault named NPCs when it isn't self-defense.

Silver Crusade

While it couldn't have happened to a nicer guy, it's perhaps best that the players learn that actions have consequences now sooner than later.

The best thing to do? Have the NPCs involved react like actual people.

If the barbarian had thrown a punch, it would be one thing. Raging and swinging an earthbreaker is an entirely different animal. There's aggravated assault and then there's attempted murder.


Silent Saturn wrote:

If you were feeling lenient, you could probably argue that the barbarian's role in saving the town from the goblin raid has earned him one free pass, but have the sheriff give him the eye and make it clear that he won't look the other way a second time.

Or you could have the barbarian spend a night in the "drunk tank" (the cell they leave open for folks who are known to be upstanding citizens when sober but get rowdy when drunk-- every rural village with a sheriff has one) and in the morning Ameiko can bail him out and lecture him on why he needs to never do it again.

Both options are basically a slap on the wrist, but get the message across to the player not to assault named NPCs when it isn't self-defense.

the drunk tank thing is a good idea. especially the part where Ameiko bails him out. ty sir!


Mikaze wrote:

While it couldn't have happened to a nicer guy, it's perhaps best that the players learn that actions have consequences now sooner than later.

The best thing to do? Have the NPCs involved react like actual people.

If the barbarian had thrown a punch, it would be one thing. Raging and swinging an earthbreaker is an entirely different animal. There's aggravated assault and then there's attempted murder.

That was my thoughts as well


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Mikaze wrote:

While it couldn't have happened to a nicer guy, it's perhaps best that the players learn that actions have consequences now sooner than later.

The best thing to do? Have the NPCs involved react like actual people.

If the barbarian had thrown a punch, it would be one thing. Raging and swinging an earthbreaker is an entirely different animal. There's aggravated assault and then there's attempted murder.

Attacking a noble in public with a weapon? Every man-at-arms he can muster on that day comes to take the offender away, and they're not going to hesitate to use deadly force on the offender or any outsider trying stop them.

The plan is to take him away for a bit of gloating, followed by execution. What then happens is that someone - a Shoanti liason, or one of the campaign patrons - barter for the PCs life in exchange for a dangerous quest, "trial by goblin lair", as it were.


Pupsocket wrote:
Mikaze wrote:

While it couldn't have happened to a nicer guy, it's perhaps best that the players learn that actions have consequences now sooner than later.

The best thing to do? Have the NPCs involved react like actual people.

If the barbarian had thrown a punch, it would be one thing. Raging and swinging an earthbreaker is an entirely different animal. There's aggravated assault and then there's attempted murder.

Attacking a noble in public with a weapon? Every man-at-arms he can muster on that day comes to take the offender away, and they're not going to hesitate to use deadly force on the offender or any outsider trying stop them.

The plan is to take him away for a bit of gloating, followed by execution. What then happens is that someone - a Shoanti liason, or one of the campaign patrons - barter for the PCs life in exchange for a dangerous quest, "trial by goblin lair", as it were.

Or the rest of the PC's save him on Execution day (or bust him out of prison before that.)


Ok, so if I'm understanding this right you have a goblin PC in RotRL. That alone says quite a bit about how far you are willing to stretch things. As the result of this interaction is either the PCs help to remove lonjiku or don't (resulting in freebees from amieko or not) I don't see much problem with the barbarian putting that drunk old man in his place from a legality standpoint. He was warned after all. *SPOILERS* When lonjiku comes up dead later on maybe the barbarian (or the whole party, in league with the goblins obviously) become suspects in the murder. As GM it is as always up to you.

EDIT* Sorry, kobold pc. But still... Kobolds are not known for being on the side of good and such...


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Narvolo just attacked a guy in good town using a lethal weapon.

I'd say he is probably now either leaving town (and out of the game) or in the lock-up. Jail breaks or being prime murder suspects sort of derails the campaign.

Some players need to learn to stop their own spurs from jangling and cool their jets.


I don't know the specifics of the NPC but if he left and was swearing vengeance it's not unreasonable for him to hire someone to punish the barbarian. For example, if the barbarian walks to the local pub to get a drink be might find that 5 big half orcs want to beat him publicly till he can't stand. Maybe he wants the barbarian killed so an assassin tries to kill him in his sleep while they are outside of town. All these examples though are meant to make an adventure harder on the barbarian and his group though by depleting resources rather than taking over what was planned.

PS: public slashes idea up above is a good model. Noble gets a laugh and the barb is weakened a bit for the next mission. Everyone wins.


I dunno Reneg, as a 'good' party member in a 'good' town I'd be more inclined to tell the Barbarian that attacking people in taverns with lethal weapons and attempting to murder them because you think they have 'fancy airs' is really not how we roll - and we'd probably part company.

I'd especially not hang around you for reprisals, assassins, or any other funky retribution coming your way.

If this dude is just going to murderise people we meet on a whim - would we assume he wont do the same to us when he thinks we took one extra sausage at the party campfire one night?


Renegadeshepherd wrote:
I don't know the specifics of the NPC but if he left and was swearing vengeance it's not unreasonable for him to hire someone to punish the barbarian. For example, if the barbarian walks to the local pub to get a drink be might find that 5 big half orcs want to beat him publicly till he can't stand. Maybe he wants the barbarian killed so an assassin tries to kill him in his sleep while they are outside of town.

Hiring thugs to beat him in a bar brawl, assasins to kill him outside town...those sound like the actions of a man with something to hide.

Why not have your men pick him up at the tavern? You can get your revenge AND remove a danger to the community AND remind said community who's in charge.


This is where the campaign derails. If you try to punish the player for this in any way, they will not respond with anything but more belligerence. You had an NPC verbally abuse the PCs. Now they probably could have gotten better results by simply ignoring the guy in public and retaliating against him in private. But this NPC was marked for being shown who is boss the moment he is rude to the PCs. I don't know this AP, but this NPC is now the prime target of vengeance.


This probably should be in the Rise of the Runelords forums.

In terms of general stuff, there is a certain question about how a 'drunken brawl' is handled in a fantasy setting. Even in the real world, drunken fights are often handled differently then outright assault, especially in small town, and especially if both participants are of a reputation in the small town.

In a fantasy settign with things like magical healing, and the fact that people literally walk around armed with deadly weapons, one has to consider how serious an offense a fight that didnt kill anyone is going to be. Particularly one in which the 'victim' clearly provoked an inebriated dude armed with a big hammer.

Spoiler:

So in terms of the AP itself, you really need to be careful here. Its REALLY important the player develop a connection to sandpoint. If they dont you are looking at derailing the whole adventure. Throwing one of them in jail is very likely to create emnity instead of positive emotional connection, and will likely lead to further conflict.

If it were me, I'd say the sheriff would sit the barbarian down, telling him he is getting off easy this time, but wont get any more free passes, and levy some kind of fine that is well within the pc's means.


MrSin wrote:
jimibones83 wrote:
My question is, what type of punishment would Sandpoint realistically put to our barbarian?

Arrest him, throw him in jail for assault, and then the player would have to reroll or roleplay HAPPYPRISONTIME! which isn't as happy as it sounds.

More seriously, I always let things like that slide unless it causes too much harm.

It is highly likely the party can literally wipe sandpoint off the map. Jailing him is unrealistic.


Undone wrote:
It is highly likely the party can literally wipe sandpoint off the map. Jailing him is unrealistic.

The described event happens when the party is level 2-3. Jailing is an entirely viable option, though in my opinion not the ideal solution.

How experienced is the person playing Narvolo? It might be he doesn't fully grasp the difference between nonlethal and lethal damage, and how the two would be perceived differently by the people around him.


Lonjiku was still at positive hp? I'd probably have Sheriff Hemlock slap the offender in jail overnight while he investigates; everyone says Lonjiku provoked him; Mayor Deverin comes to see the barbarian, gives him a school-ma'arm "Don't do that" talk, and has him released if he promises not to do it again.

Dark Archive

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Assuming this is the first real infraction that Narvolo has had in town, then this all still can be salvaged. It also gives you a chance to show the players that their actions have consequences. I'd have the guard arrest Narvolo, have him spend the night in jail, and find out that Ameiko has bailed him out the next day. She'd give him the kind of tongue-lashing that only a bard can - "My father is an ass, but he is still my father. This is not the Storval Plateau! You can't just kill someone because you don't like their tone of voice! Bethana has already collected your things from your room at the Rusty Dragon. You are no longer welcome in my Inn, and stay away from my family."

Play up on that. Narvolo should find a far cooler reception from the town after his release from jail, while the rest of the party will have their interactions with townsfolk colored by their association with Narvolo. "Why do you hang around that man? He might turn on you at any moment!"

This isn't to say that it should stay that way - his actions could change people's perceptions of him, or they could reinforce that he's a dangerous brute. His actions in the Glassworks would fittingly be a crucible in which his reputation will be at stake.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Undone wrote:


It is highly likely the party can literally wipe sandpoint off the map. Jailing him is unrealistic.

Not really. At this point they are at most 2nd level characters. The sheriff, backed up by guardsman, Father Zanthus casting hold person on the barbarian....

Jailing him is exactly what needs to happen. Sandpoint, while a pleasant place, is still essentially run by its nobility. Outright assault on one of Sandpoint's patriarchs should be expressly punished. Lonjiku's threats were not idle ones; he could have what he threatened done.

What happens when this barbarian gets to Magnimar and has to deal with Lord Mayor Grobarus? I can assure you, this kind of reaction from the barbarian would result in capital punishment there, regardless of his "heroic" status.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

What Misroi said.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

And what Reckless said. Sandpoint is a forgiving town, for the most part. Grobaras is not.


Enforce the law or it means nothing. A drunken fistfight is one thing, assault with a deadly weapon is attempted murder. The character should be shackled, brought to magnimar for trial and sentenced to prison.

Have the dude make a new character. The rules mean nothing if they are not enforced.


QUESTION!?

I have neither played RotRL nor read it, but I find myself wondering... is there an opportunity coming up somewhere soon, such that the Barbarian could have a scheduled execution which coincides with an urgent threat/attack on the town/etc etc?

Lock him up, give the players a chance to decide what they do during the time between, then fastforward to execution day and Barb gets a chance to earn his life.


I find this thread amusing, due to an incident in my RL RotRl game where the half-orc samurai (ronin) was so focused on saving the children in the square that he totally missed the fact that other groups of goblins were attaching elsewhere and, once deputized, attempted to arrest Lonjiku for endangering the town by allowing goblins to infest his wagons. [Explaining later that it was like someone being responsible for the damage if they loan out their car and it's used in a crime] When Sheriff Hemlock refused to jail him, our samurai returned his badge, and later, when they discovered Lonjiku's body in the Glassowrks, announced he was beheading it!


I would have the guards and other npcs attempt to arrest him, and if he doesnt manage to escape (with or without the PC's help), he would be thrown into jail and would get charged with attempted murder and either:

A) Get expelled from the town without any gear (being nice)
B) Get executioned after a month (being realistic)

He attempted to kill a noble npc, even if the guy is an ass, he has his strings, he can pull things out, and he wouldnt let a possible murderer walk around town freely. Even if he was with a group of heroes that saved the town from goblins.

Option B is amusing because it could lead to another adventure trying to save him, as others pointed before me.


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I suggest having Hemlock arrest him and put him in jail "while we get this sorted out." Ameiko can speak up for the barbarian - her father was behaving poorly and even more crotchety than normal. And he can't have been all that grievously injured, he walked away under his own power. Then...

Spoiler:

The next day when Shalelu arrives and starts the "Hemlock leaving for Magnimar chain" make it appear the resulting bureaucracy will leave the barbarian in there until Hemlock returns. The Mayor can't spare anyone to follow-up, etc. And she can suggest it's a great place from him to be if Lonjitsu wants to take matters into his own "hired" hands... Key here is to make the player sweat a little, get a little frustrated. He role-played the character fine but part of the adjustment to civilization for barbarians is some frustration. You could point out someone could have sent him to Magnimar in chains or stripped him of his worldly possessions or worse.

The next day when Ameiko turns up missing, the other players can a) take the note to the Mayor and get their friend out to investigate or b) investigate without him, find Lonjitsu dead and that'll be the end of that. If Lonjitsu's not around to "press charges" and no one else wants to make a case of it, no reason to keep the barbarian locked up. And best for the barbarian, he was in jail when it happened. Hard to find a better alibi than that.

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