double barrel musket and vital strike

[jimibones83]

I have a player trying to use vital strike while firing both barrels of his double barrel musket. Is this legal? The wording seems a little cloudy. It seems to maybe be RAW but not RAI

[Samasboy1]

Seems do-able.

Vital Strike wrote:

When you use the attack action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage. Roll the weapon’s damage dice for the attack twice and add the results together before adding bonuses from Strength, weapon abilities (such as flaming), precision-based damage, and other damage bonuses. These extra weapon damage dice are not multiplied on a critical hit, but are added to the total.

Double Barrel Musket wrote:

This musket has two parallel barrels; each barrel can be shot independently as a separate action, or both can be fired at once as the same attack.

I would say only one of the barrels gets the double dice though.

[reyyvin]

Samasboy1 wrote:

Seems do-able.

Vital Strike wrote:

When you use the attack action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage. Roll the weapon’s damage dice for the attack twice and add the results together before adding bonuses from Strength, weapon abilities (such as flaming), precision-based damage, and other damage bonuses. These extra weapon damage dice are not multiplied on a critical hit, but are added to the total.

Double Barrel Musket wrote:

This musket has two parallel barrels; each barrel can be shot independently as a separate action, or both can be fired at once as the same attack.

I would say only one of the barrels gets the double dice though.

additionally, the 2 shots would fall into a volley type of attack... like manyshot (2 arrows with 1 attack) or scorching ray (2+ rays, separate attack rolls, but at the same time). Precision based damage is normally applied to only 1 attack. While Vital Strike has similar wording about excluding 'precision based' damage, it also includes wording that would indicate its extra damage is also 'precision based' damage ("extra... dice are not multiplied on a critical hit")

I would also rule yes on 1 attack

[Michael Sayre]

There's some weird verbage going on here as well.

Note that the Doublebarreled Pistol states:
"each barrel can be fired independently as a separate action, or both can be shot at once with the same action. If both barrels are shot at once, they must both target the same creature or object, and the pistol becomes wildly inaccurate, imparting a –4 penalty on each shot"

That verbage makes it pretty clear that we've got two separate attacks that both get triggered by a single action, so only one individual attack would benefit from the effects of Vital Strike.

But then on the Double-barreled Musket it says:
"each barrel can be shot independently as a separate action, or both can be fired at once as the same attack. If both barrels are fired at once, they must both target the same creature or object, and the gun becomes wildly inaccurate, taking a –4 penalty on each shot".

The bolded verbage implies that there is only one attack being made, which deals damage equivalent to two bullets (2d12). In that case, Vital Strike would apply and he'd deal 4d12.

I think what's important is noticing the rest of the verbage requiring both barrels to target the same creature and applying a penalty to each barrel is still there, so despite the weird incongruence between the two DB entries, I think it's still supposed to be two separate attacks that just get triggered by the same action, so Vital Strike should only apply to one of the attacks (2d12 for the first attack, 1d12 for the second, total 3d12).

[Gilarius]

Due to the discrepancies, a GM can rule it either way.

I'd only let it work on one of the 2 barrels, because most of the broken aspects of gunslingers derive from the poorly written double barrel rules.

[Rhatahema]

Here's a link to the developer clarification on double-barreled weapons.

The double barreled weapon essentially gives you two attacks with a single attack action (or two attacks for any attack you'd normally make as part of a full-attack). With vital strike, it specifies that one attack deals additional damage, so I agree the bonus damage would only apply to the first shot.

Dead shot is a similar ability, but works differently. A double-barreled weapon would let you fire your deadshot twice (at the cost of -4 on all the attack rolls). Sounds crazy, but it's still lower damage than someone focused on full-attacking.

Double-barreled weapons are also never labeled as a volley, and there are no limitations presented on dealing precision damage with them. I remember the vaguely defined rules for volleys in 3.5, but haven't seen them called out in Pathfinder. Anyone got a link?

[reyyvin]

Rhatahema wrote:

Here's a link to the developer clarification on double-barreled weapons.

The double barreled weapon essentially gives you two attacks with a single attack action (or two attacks for any attack you'd normally make as part of a full-attack). With vital strike, it specifies that one attack deals additional damage, so I agree the bonus damage would only apply to the first shot.

Dead shot is a similar ability, but works differently. A double-barreled weapon would let you fire your deadshot twice (at the cost of -4 on all the attack rolls). Sounds crazy, but it's still lower damage than someone focused on full-attacking.

Double-barreled weapons are also never labeled as a volley, and there are no limitations presented on dealing precision damage with them. I remember the vaguely defined rules for volleys in 3.5, but haven't seen them called out in Pathfinder. Anyone got a link?

"Volley" isn't defined at all in Pathfinder, to my knowledge. There is an FAQ for "simultaneous spells" (scorching ray)... and they issue very little errata for other books. I would treat it in a similar way, since a 'ray' has been defined as a ranged weapon.

http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9qqm

[Jamie Charlan]

On the other hand, if you're not doubling both attacks, you'll be reducing your output from about 3/4 a full attack down to 1/3 at the best.

[reyyvin]

Jamie Charlan wrote:

On the other hand, if you're not doubling both attacks, you'll be reducing your output from about 3/4 a full attack down to 1/3 at the best.

Vital strike is generally designed for moving and attacking - like when a dragon does a standard action attack during a flyby. It also helps (a little) for penetrating DR or when you know your iterative attacks will miss. Against most opponents, its suboptimal vs a full attack.