Knowledge skills help you harvest raw materials from chests? That's clever. I see it as a guy going, "Wait, guys, that's brown mold. We can use it to create a +1 frost longsword. Or to really f*!! up the Elemental Plane of Fire."
Items taking several days? Would I have to...oh, you don't have to be online the whole time. Can you do other stuff, like PvP, while 'crafting'?
Oh, this stuff about crafting stations/markets in settlements is neat. So different settlements will give cheaper markets to sell your stuff in depending on how far they are from ideal selling points?
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I'm a little iffy about them putting recipes on monsters and the like. I was wanting to go pure crafting and become a kind of merchant since I remember they do reward players more for specializing in one area over spreading their skills around in multiple classes. So, wouldn't that really restrict the kinds of skills I could really work at improving without having to hire on a group of people for a chance drop? It seems that it would be easier for a combat character to increase the effectiveness of their combat skills comparatively.
I do realize that fantasy games tend to cater a bit more to the people that like to run people through or burn them, but I really just like the idea of being that elf off in the corner working on fletching or setting an edge to a blade. Elven steel from skilled craftsmen (and women)!
Warriors have to buy weapons from crafters. Crafters have to buy recipes (and raw materials) from warriors. Fair's fair.
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What do you mean by +4 and +5 upgrade giving you selection options? I thought 4 minor keywords was the max (maybe it's changed). Is it 4 gives you a choice of a few certain keywords to be that 4th keyword and +5 gives you more options? Or am I misinterpretting?
The screenshot is chock full of juicy info! It shows the keywords for the Holy Truesilver longsword:
*Celestial (major?)
*Masterwork (major)
*Blessed
*Dedicated
*Heavy
*Strengthened
*Dense
*Distributed
*Heat-Shielded
*Weatherproofed
*Grounded
That's a lot more than 4 minor keywords! However, the base damage seems to be 25 physical + 6 energy, which is below the old 40 for longswords. So maybe more keywords balances the lower base damage (edit: giving 25+6+2*20+8*5=111 base damage, slightly above the 100 that they topped off at before)? Maybe those are just options.
I thought crit resistance was a defensive stat (crit rating being the corresponding offensive stat), so it's a little odd seeing that on a sword. Maybe it reflects the weapon being good at parrying? A reflex penalty on a sword presumably accounts for the weapon's heaviness.
Haven't seen the spell penalty stat before. If I had to guess it would be a penalty to your attack roll when using spells. -100 is a pretty harsh penalty if that's the case, but I suppose that gimping your spells is a worthwhile trade-off for using a pretty sick melee weapon like that.
Enchantments have been mentioned before for energy resistance on armor. Presumably ones like shocking add extra damage?
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I'm a little iffy about them putting recipes on monsters and the like. I was wanting to go pure crafting and become a kind of merchant since I remember they do reward players more for specializing in one area over spreading their skills around in multiple classes. So, wouldn't that really restrict the kinds of skills I could really work at improving without having to hire on a group of people for a chance drop?
I imagine recipes will be saleable on the markets, so your pure crafter could simply buy the recipes. Whether or not the better recipes will be readily available in the manner, or whether they'll be so rare that it'll be extremely difficult to find them on the open market, I guess we'll see.
If *every* recipe were discoverable purely through skill unlocks and never-leave-town crafting, everybody could learn everything given enough time which wouldn't be that interesting, so it does seem appropriate to put them out in the world.|
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Do recipes have a durability mechanic to them?
For example, a recipe for Iron Ingot +3. If I get that recipe, do I just always have the ability to make Iron Ingot +3? Or do I get a recipe that has 50 uses on it, I can use it 50 times to make Iron Ingot +3, and then I need to get another recipe?
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Knowledge skills help you harvest raw materials from chests? That's clever. I see it as a guy going, "Wait, guys, that's brown mold. We can use it to create a +1 frost longsword. Or to really f%%& up the Elemental Plane of Fire."
Yep. Someday, when we have more scripted encounters, Knowledges may give you an advantage in a scripted way, but for now their main use is having a better idea of what stuff is valuable for their particular domains (and several give you additional information on the world map about various things). A lot of the items coming out of monster "chests" (not always a chest; e.g., it may be a pile of remains for animals) are various potentially useful detritus from the creatures you've defeated. Being more knowledgeable about the creature lets you get better loot.
Items taking several days? Would I have to...oh, you don't have to be online the whole time. Can you do other stuff, like PvP, while 'crafting'?
Yep. Having items in your crafting queue may eventually prevent you from benefiting from any other downtime-related systems we'll put in (e.g., we have a plan for "I associate myself with this building that I work at when I'm offline to give it a bonus"), but it shouldn't do anything to your non-downtime activities.
Oh, this stuff about crafting stations/markets in settlements is neat. So different settlements will give cheaper markets to sell your stuff in depending on how far they are from ideal selling points?
That's the plan, yes. Setting up a market in your settlement uses up a large plot, which you might prefer to use on something else, and even if you have a market it might not be the one where you can get the best price. Weapons are likely to sell for more at a popular market that doesn't have any nearby settlements with a smithy, for example.
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Shoot, can't read the blog since I am at work (blocked). But recipes are only on monster drops? Or that's another option to learn them?
I hope it's just an option, because like APerson, I am going to be pure crafter and will probably be doing very little combating.
I understand the game is designed to be dependent on others, but there are already quite a few situations where crafters need to depend on others (and I am ok with that), but learning new recipes was not another aspect I was counting on. I was hoping you would learn new recipes the further you advanced in your specialty.
But will read the blog when I get home to get the full picture.
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I'm a little iffy about them putting recipes on monsters and the like. I was wanting to go pure crafting and become a kind of merchant since I remember they do reward players more for specializing in one area over spreading their skills around in multiple classes. So, wouldn't that really restrict the kinds of skills I could really work at improving without having to hire on a group of people for a chance drop? It seems that it would be easier for a combat character to increase the effectiveness of their combat skills comparatively.
It's almost as if they're deliberately trying to make you interact with other players...
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Looks good guys! I am not so bothered by the recipes as drops, as long as they can be traded (i.e. Auction house or 1 to 1). Those PVE specialists are going to want to get the recipes into the hands of their favorite crafters ASAP.
Absolutely. We currently have no concept of soulbinding; if you find something you can't use, you're completely free to sell it.
What do you mean by +4 and +5 upgrade giving you selection options? I thought 4 minor keywords was the max (maybe it's changed). Is it 4 gives you a choice of a few certain keywords to be that 4th keyword and +5 gives you more options? Or am I misinterpretting?
An attack only looks for 4 minor and 2 major, but an item can have more. This means the item can work with a wider variety of attacks, and also that the additional keywords may be designed to bypass creature resistances. For example, attacks will rarely look for the "Cold Iron" keyword, but Fey and Demons will have a keyed resistance that applies if the attack did not have that keyword.
The +4 and +5 items are planned to gain crafter-settable keywords for those last two pluses, in addition to the standard progression from +0 to +3. It may be a while before this system is in, as it's heavily art dependent. Those extra keywords are things like "Serrated" and "Spiked" which we hope to have actually alter the item model to show they're present. There may be special attacks that make use of them and certain creatures may respond to them.
The screenshot is chock full of juicy info! It shows the keywords for the Holy Truesilver longsword:
It's actually the keywords from a heavily enchanted suit of Crusader's Plate, IIRC. Art started mocking up the window as a weapon, but then wanted to know the biggest possible set of keywords currently possible to make sure the panel was big enough to fit them all and didn't update the descriptive text to match :) .
*Celestial (major?)
*Masterwork (major)
Yep. Celestial is the Tier 3 keyword that Paladins and good Clerics will want the most. Masterwork is the standard Tier 2 major keyword (almost all keyworded items gain Masterwork at T2).
*Blessed
*Dedicated
These are the minor keywords that Cleric and Paladin armor feats will look for throughout their careers, and is often the first upgrade addition for armors designed for those roles.
*Heavy
*Strengthened
*Dense
*Distributed
This is one of the standard keyword progressions of minor keywords for heavy armor. Certain armors rearrange them a bit.
*Heat-Shielded
*Weatherproofed
*Grounded
This is from a Tier 3 energy resistance enchantment. Those keywords are triggered by a passive feat to grant increased Fire, Cold, and Electric resistance. At that tier, you could have instead enchanted the armor to resist two of the less common energies (Acid, Sonic, Negative), or only one of the rare energies (Force, Holy, Psychic). You can add those enchants to rings and amulets as well, in lieu of other benefits if you want to resist as many energies as possible.
That's a lot more than 4 minor keywords! However, the base damage seems to be 25 physical + 6 energy, which is below the old 40 for longswords. So maybe more keywords balances the lower base damage? Maybe those are just options.
Base armor resistances for heavy armor, not counting any triggered keywords (don't know if I mentioned that armor's base resist values and upgrade progressions were changed a while ago).
I thought crit resistance was a defensive stat (crit rating being the corresponding offensive stat), so it's a little odd seeing that on a sword. Maybe it reflects the weapon being good at parrying? A reflex penalty on a sword presumably accounts for the weapon's heaviness.
Sorry, still armor. I'll tell art they gave you a migraine ;) .
Haven't seen the spell penalty stat before. If I had to guess it would be a penalty to your attack roll when using spells. -100 is a pretty harsh penalty if that's the case, but I suppose that gimping your spells is a worthwhile trade-off for using a pretty sick melee weapon like that.
Heavy armor heavily penalizes using arcane stuff, as expected.
Do recipes have a durability mechanic to them?
For example, a recipe for Iron Ingot +3. If I get that recipe, do I just always have the ability to make Iron Ingot +3? Or do I get a recipe that has 50 uses on it, I can use it 50 times to make Iron Ingot +3, and then I need to get another recipe?
Nope. We talked about it, but it was really hard to justify in the setting. But we will probably charge you a token amount of XP to learn it, to make the choice of what to learn to make more interesting.
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...learn new recipes...I have to listen again later, but it sounded as if recipes may be one-use consumable items, like the other materials we'll use.
Yeah that's a good question. In LotRO, some recipes you learn and then you know it forever and can craft the item unlimited times thereafter. Other recipes you learn and can use it once, then it's gone.
Which way do recipes work here?|
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...learn new recipes...I have to listen again later, but it sounded as if recipes may be one-use consumable items, like the other materials we'll use.
That’s even worse, as you would always need to get the recipe off the monster drop every time you made the item.
To Mbando, I brought that factor up in my post. I realize the game is designed to interact with other players, but there are already quite a few factors where a dedicated crafter will need to rely on others, having to get the recipe (not learning) is not another factor I anticipated.
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Nope. We talked about it, but it was really hard to justify in the setting. But we will probably charge you a token amount of XP to learn it, to make the choice of what to learn to make more interesting.
Bleh. Hopefully you find a way to keep the market for them being flooded, and not just having them be a standard.
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it sounded as if recipes may be one-use consumable itemsThat would be interesting, it would prevent monopolies and market flooding. That and non-crafters could benefit from selling recipes.
I would hate for every nice recipe to be this way though. Because then the crafter's network of PvE support to provide nice recipes would be more important than the crafter himself
I got the impression you would learn a recipe and always be able to make weapons with it. "Learning" would be the "one-use", to ensure everyone can't just pass the recipe around indefinitely. Market flooding is prevented by the weapon taking such a long time to make.
I wonder when sundering will come into play...
Thanks for answering so many questions, those of you at GW. Here's another: What's to stop someone from having an alt just indefinitely making weapons? Seems like you'd be a fool to make a craftsman your main character.
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Gol Morbis wrote:
Do recipes have a durability mechanic to them?
For example, a recipe for Iron Ingot +3. If I get that recipe, do I just always have the ability to make Iron Ingot +3? Or do I get a recipe that has 50 uses on it, I can use it 50 times to make Iron Ingot +3, and then I need to get another recipe?
Nope. We talked about it, but it was really hard to justify in the setting. But we will probably charge you a token amount of XP to learn it, to make the choice of what to learn to make more interesting.
Thanks, Bringslite. So, if I read that right, you learn recipes forever—but at a price.
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[Nope. We talked about it, but it was really hard to justify in the setting. But we will probably charge you a token amount of XP to learn it, to make the choice of what to learn to make more interesting.Do recipes have a durability mechanic to them?
For example, a recipe for Iron Ingot +3. If I get that recipe, do I just always have the ability to make Iron Ingot +3? Or do I get a recipe that has 50 uses on it, I can use it 50 times to make Iron Ingot +3, and then I need to get another recipe?
Ok, just to clarify, are you saying that you would actually be able to ‘learn’ Iron Ingots +3 permanently by spending XP?
This I would be ok with. I cannot recall, but you are not limited on the total amount of XP you can learn, correct?Seems like you'd be a fool to make a craftsman your main character.
This is what I have always planned to do.
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Thanks Stephen!
Yes, you did mention that you had tweaked armor values a while back. This gives a concrete example of those changes (old; 27 physical, new: 25). -20 reflex penalty is what you've had for a while for heavy armor, so the numbers definitely make more sense for heavy armor than for a weapon!
Rough numbers on that -100 spell penalty (assuming you're fighting an opponent of equal skill):
*your attacks will do ~85% of max damage on average with no penalty.
*with a -100 penalty to attack rolls that's instead a tad over 50%.
*taking the ratio gives roughly 0.6, ie. your spells are about 60% as effective wearing heavy armor as they are without armor.
(marginal tweaks to the 85 and 50 based on tier)
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Gol Morbis wrote:
Do recipes have a durability mechanic to them?For example, a recipe for Iron Ingot +3. If I get that recipe, do I just always have the ability to make Iron Ingot +3? Or do I get a recipe that has 50 uses on it, I can use it 50 times to make Iron Ingot +3, and then I need to get another recipe?
Nope. We talked about it, but it was really hard to justify in the setting. But we will probably charge you a token amount of XP to learn it, to make the choice of what to learn to make more interesting.
One way to handle this (and remain 'in setting') would be to have some recipes that require extremely rare ingredients... you can't make the Sun Orchid Elixir without a Sun Orchid. You only need to learn the recipe once, but if one of the components is rare enough you aren't going to be able to churn them out en masse.
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I would hate for every nice recipe to be this way though. Because then the crafter's network of PvE support to provide nice recipes would be more important than the crafter himself
Yeah, this is a worry too. If all your recipes get used up and then you have to find more, you're in danger of getting the worst elements of a looting system AND a crafting system. The guy that defeated the boss essentially gets a rare loot drop that he can't use until he hands it to a crafter to add a bunch of materials to, and the crafter can't craft unless he has the PvE drop. Dropping the recipe becomes pretty similar to just dropping "broken Sword of Awesome" and all crafters can do is repair it.
Aww, no info on enchanting. I was hoping there might be a fourth optional step where an enchanter further upgrades the equipment.
After long discussion, we decided to make enchanting part of the crafting process itself, rather than a later add-on. That keeps the + value of the item more consistent (e.g., you don't have a +3 necklace with a +2 enchant) and makes it easier to distribute meaningful improvements. It's still an optional step, but it's an optional step you decide in the process of crafting, and which requires you to have Spellcraft and the right enchantment then and there. Unenchanted items should still be valuable (and there are some replacement options if you want to be a crafter without Spellcraft that we'll detail later).
I got the impression you would learn a recipe and always be able to make weapons with it. "Learning" would be the "one-use", to ensure everyone can't just pass the recipe around indefinitely. Market flooding is prevented by the weapon taking such a long time to make.
Yep. You DO consume the recipe to learn it, just not every time you make it.
Thanks for answering so many questions, those of you at GW. Here's another: What's to stop someone from having an alt just indefinitely making weapons? Seems like you'd be a fool to make a craftsman your main character.
Dedicated crafters will get access to an additional queue so they can have two things going at once. The system is also deliberately fiddly so if you choose to spend a lot of time tweaking your inputs you can get the same outputs for a better value. That is, someone that just signs onto an alt and queues a bunch of stuff up may wind up paying an efficiency premium over someone that devotes more attention to the process. Particularly if the dedicated crafter uses active playtime to bargain hunt at various markets and manage moving goods to the most efficient market.
Ok, just to clarify, are you saying that you would actually be able to ‘learn’ Iron Ingots +3 permanently by spending XP?
This I would be ok with. I cannot recall, but you are not limited on the total amount of XP you can learn, correct?
Correct on both.
I'm getting this idea for a yappy gnome/halfling craftsman being ferried around towns by his big half-orc bodyguard so he can hunt for good bargains.
I hope the few crafting-focused companies we've got make it. We need those guys. ;D
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Aww, no info on enchanting. I was hoping there might be a fourth optional step where an enchanter further upgrades the equipment.After long discussion, we decided to make enchanting part of the crafting process itself, rather than a later add-on. That keeps the + value of the item more consistent (e.g., you don't have a +3 necklace with a +2 enchant) and makes it easier to distribute meaningful improvements. It's still an optional step, but it's an optional step you decide in the process of crafting, and which requires you to have Spellcraft and the right enchantment then and there. Unenchanted items should still be valuable (and there are some replacement options if you want to be a crafter without Spellcraft that we'll detail later).
My concern is really for the number of players that just want to enchant and not also be a dedicated crafter. I know I was hoping Enchanter would be a distinct role that didn't require other crafting skills. Now if I want to make a magic long sword I need skill in enchantment and in crafting long swords and not two players with distinct specialties.
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I'm getting this idea for a yappy gnome/halfling craftsman being ferried around towns by his big half-orc bodyguard so he can hunt for good bargains.
I hope the few crafting-focused companies we've got make it. We need those guys. ;D
Ok, if Ryan said it, I guess I missed it. But Stephen clarified it for me.
And I want to be Halfling crafter as well, so I hope it’s not too long for Halflings to make their appearance. :)
I swear, if I'd gotten Destiny's Twin, I'd totally be making a craftshobbit right now. As-is, I'll probably get my main leveled a fair bit, then swap and level a second character a small ways. Gotta be pragmatic.
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"Stand back! I'm going to try SCIENCE!" Love that :)
Being more knowledgeable about the creature lets you get better loot.
Is there going to be a benefit if multiple Characters have the appropriate Knowledge Skill? Or is it sufficient to have a single Character with a very high Knowledge Skill?
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Now if I want to make a magic long sword I need skill in enchantment and in crafting long swords and not two players with distinct specialties.
This is what I was hoping for all along.
Where I do think it’s good to have dependence on others, it’s imperative in a PvP economy, there are already many aspects in place where a dedicated crafter will need to rely on others so he/she can create his item.
But I feel the actual creation of the item, from start to finish, should fall under the crafter. I am glad you can pick up Enchantment as an additional skill.
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For obtaining materials, is the only way with mob drops? Are there any material nodes like an iron deposit or an herb - that are collectible in a non-combat way? (Bulk resource not counted, as those are not used in this crafting process? or...?)
You can tell who the pure ACE characters are in this thread because we're going "only monster drops? AAAH ONLY monster drops??"
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Now if I want to make a magic long sword I need skill in enchantment and in crafting long swords and not two players with distinct specialties.This is what I was hoping for all along.
Where I do think it’s good to have dependence on others, it’s imperative in a PvP economy, there are already many aspects in place where a dedicated crafter will need to rely on others so he/she can create his item.
But I feel the actual creation of the item, from start to finish, should fall under the crafter. I am glad you can pick up Enchantment as an additional skill.
Maybe I read it wrong. I guess that it is possible that the Enchantment is crafted as a separate item that is incorporated into the item at the same time as your +3 Iron Ingots. Would make enchanter a role still, but it would cut down on the degree of player interaction. It would however lend enchantment to mass production.
For obtaining materials, is the only way with mob drops? Are there any material nodes like an iron deposit or an herb - that are collectible in a non-combat way? (Bulk resource not counted, as those are not used in this crafting process? or...?)
You can tell who the pure ACE characters are in this thread because we're going "only monster drops? AAAH ONLY monster drops??"
They actually specified in the video that materials could be obtained from resource collection, too. Recipes are another matter, of course.
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I guess I have one minor concern. When you die in PFO, you most likely lose everything on you other than threaded items. It has also been stated that the vast majority (maybe even all) of your equipment is crafted items. To me, this necessitates a crafting system that can very rapidly produce gear because players will constantly need to be replacing it.
But items taking a day or even longer to make sounds slower than your average crafting system, and when there's no "centralized" auction house, like in WoW, it limits availability of goods even further.
Now, if the "day+" time scale only applies to a small variety of things, my concern is moot since those are more likely to be the threaded items. If virtually everything is in the "hours+" timescale, will there be enough supply to meet constant demand?
I'm sure we'll find the right balance as EE goes on, but that's just my first impression.
