Prehensile Hair and Enlarge Person reach


Rules Questions

Liberty's Edge

Enlarge Person:
This spell causes instant growth of a humanoid creature, doubling its height and multiplying its weight by 8. This increase changes the creature's size category to the next larger one. The target gains a +2 size bonus to Strength, a -2 size penalty to Dexterity (to a minimum of 1), and a -1 penalty on attack rolls and AC due to its increased size.

A humanoid creature whose size increases to Large has a space of 10 feet and a natural reach of 10 feet. This spell does not change the target's speed.

If insufficient room is available for the desired growth, the creature attains the maximum possible size and may make a Strength check (using its increased Strength) to burst any enclosures in the process. If it fails, it is constrained without harm by the materials enclosing it--the spell cannot be used to crush a creature by increasing its size.

All equipment worn or carried by a creature is similarly enlarged by the spell. Melee weapons affected by this spell deal more damage (see Table: Medium/Large Weapon Damage). Other magical properties are not affected by this spell. Any enlarged item that leaves an enlarged creature's possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size. This means that thrown and projectile weapons deal their normal damage. Magical properties of enlarged items are not increased by this spell.

Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack.

Enlarge person counters and dispels reduce person .

Enlarge person can be made permanent with a permanency spell.

Prehensile Hair:
The witch can instantly cause her hair (or even her eyebrows) to grow up to 10 feet long or to shrink to its normal length, and can manipulate her hair as if it were a limb with a Strength score equal to her Intelligence score. Her hair has reach 10 feet, and she can use it as a secondary natural attack that deals 1d3 points of damage (1d2 for a Small witch). Her hair can manipulate objects (but not weapons) as dexterously as a human hand. The hair cannot be sundered or attacked as a separate creature. Pieces cut from the witch's elongated hair shrink away to nothing. Using her hair does not harm the witch's head or neck, even if she lifts something heavy with it. The witch can manipulate her hair a number of minutes each day equal to her level; these minutes do not need to be consecutive, but must be spent in 1-minute increments. A typical male witch with this hex can also manipulate his beard, moustache, or eyebrows.

So my questions are: if a witch uses both enlarge person (on herself) and prehensile hair, what is her reach? And, can she still attack adjacent targets?

Also, is there a way to increase the number of times I can use prehensile hair in a day? There doesn't seem to be an "extra hex" feat (probably because most hexes are "once per 24 hours" on any given target).


number one is a bit tricky. I would be inclined to let it extend it's reach by 5 ft because it's a natural weapon, and enlarge person increases the reach for all attacks for bipeds. I've seen this question come up before, but I haven't seen an official answer yet. In either case though, enlarge person only extends a blind spot if you already had one. If you were using a longspear, you would get a 10 foot blind spot because the spear is already incapable of attacking enemies in your normal reach, but lets you stab further out. prehensile hair is capable of attacking adjacent enemies, so getting bigger would not prevent you from attacking adjacent enemies.

question two... sadly the answer is no from what I've seen. I haven't found a time though during my days of running a hexcrafter who's main weapon was her hair when I actually ran out of hair hex uses though. The white haired witch archetype gives you permanent hair, but I believe it removes your hexes. I don't know much about it, but I hear it's not that powerful unless you are using some odd strategies.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

1) Prehensile hair states flatly that "her hair has a reach of 10 feet". It is not based on her natural reach or her size, so enlarge person just does not interact with this ability.

2) Yes, the reach provided by the enlarge person spell is natural reach, which does not prohibit attacking closer enemies. Note that if you equip a reach weapon, you can get some truly monstrous threatened area (although you'd have an even larger blind spot).

3) Nope, there's no way to get increased usage of a hex (other than increasing your class level). This would probably be reasonable as a feat (or in lieu of a different hex) but there's no such option in any published material.


So if you were to be the smallest sized creature (I can't remember right now) in the game, by these terribly written rules, you could get 10 ft reach if you had this hex.

Honestly, the witch has so many badly written things, in terms of hexes and throughout their abilities/archetypes. By RAW you don't get any extension due to size increase.

I think it's white haired witch archetype and of course the Ice Tomb hex that I last recall being really screwed up among the many others.

"At 10th level, a white-haired witch learns a rogue talent, using her white-haired witch level in place of her rogue level." doesn't that imply that you need existing rogue levels?!

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Human Fighter wrote:

So if you were to be the smallest sized creature (I can't remember right now) in the game, by these terribly written rules, you could get 10 ft reach if you had this hex.

The diminutive creature get 10' reach with its hair if it has them and is a witch. Where is the problem?

It is not using a weapon, it is using a magical power.

Human Fighter wrote:


"At 10th level, a white-haired witch learns a rogue talent, using her white-haired witch level in place of her rogue level." doesn't that imply that you need existing rogue levels?!

I fail to see what what is your objection. Most rogue talent have an effect that depend on the levels you have in the rogue class. The white-haired witch use his levels as a witch as level in the rogue class to adjudicate how they work.


Diego, the point of op's question is that usually there is a translation with size and reach. A Fine creature threatens 0, while a Colossal (tall) creature threatens 30 ft, so some find it weird that regardless of your size that this hex will always and only benefit you 10 ft reach instead of having rules reflecting with your creature size.

I feel like you purposely misunderstand the things I write just to try and jump on my case. I didn't object to anything, but as I wrote, I was just quoting some of the rules that were poorly written in regards to the witch, because I felt it was relevant. So, I pointed out with the white haired witch that it implies that you need to have rogue levels to replace them with your current witch levels, so without any level in rogue, you cannot replace them with witch. Also beyond that, if you happen to have levels in rogue, you don't add them together, but rather you completely replace them.

I'm sure it's supposed to be interpreted that you just calculate your witch level as if it were rogue levels in determining what rogue talents you qualify for, but a better example of how things are poorly written for the hex is to read Ice Tomb. I just looked it up and it seems some FAQ/Erratta was made, so I'll have fun reading that tomorrow when I have the time.

I hope this clears up your misunderstandings with my post.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

1) A bit paranoid. "I feel like you purposely misunderstand the things I write". No, you simply wrote something wrong.

2)"So, I pointed out with the white haired witch that it implies that you need to have rogue levels to replace them with your current witch levels, so without any level in rogue, you cannot replace them with witch. Also beyond that, if you happen to have levels in rogue, you don't add them together, but rather you completely replace them." I need to do a lot of work to interpret that rule that way.
It don't imply at all what you write. It simply say that you use your witch level to calculate how the rogue talents you acquire as a witch work.

2) "Diego, the point of op's question is that usually there is a translation with size and reach. A Fine creature threatens 0, while a Colossal (tall) creature threatens 30 ft, so some find it weird that regardless of your size that this hex will always and only benefit you 10 ft reach instead of having rules reflecting with your creature size."
spell, spell like powers, supernatural talents with a range normally have the same range, regardless of the creature actual size.
The prehensile hair are a supernatural ability so it if normal that they keep the same reach, regardless of the creature actual size.

If eh want the GM can change that, but there isn't anything wrond or unclear in how they work.


Strange how I'm simply wrong in writing that a fine creature gets 10 ft reach hair by using this hex, along with pointing out that's that by RAW, and you "correct" me by saying that a fine creature gets 10 ft reach hair with this hex, while informing me about how spells, spell like abilities etc work.

Yup, that thing I quoted sure wasn't written oddly at all, and Ice Tomb previously having absolutely no range etc was never a big deal.

I sure am paranoid, and I sure appreciate you always "correcting" me.

@OP, if you are in a home game, perhaps you can talk to your GM and figure out how to properly scale the hair by creature size if you all feel that is something you want to house rule, but otherwise as I wrote before, by RAW it will always give any size creature hair that will grow out to 10 ft reach.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

This is the sequence as I see it:

Diego Rossi wrote:
Human Fighter wrote:


"At 10th level, a white-haired witch learns a rogue talent, using her white-haired witch level in place of her rogue level." doesn't that imply that you need existing rogue levels?!

I fail to see what what is your objection. Most rogue talent have an effect that depend on the levels you have in the rogue class. The white-haired witch use his levels as a witch as level in the rogue class to adjudicate how they work.

Human Fighter wrote:


I feel like you purposely misunderstand the things I write just to try and jump on my case. I didn't object to anything, but as I wrote, I was just quoting some of the rules that were poorly written in regards to the witch, because I felt it was relevant. So, I pointed out with the white haired witch that it implies that you need to have rogue levels to replace them with your current witch levels, so without any level in rogue, you cannot replace them with witch. Also beyond that, if you happen to have levels in rogue, you don't add them together, but rather you completely replace them.

I'm sure it's supposed to be interpreted that you just calculate your witch level as if it were rogue levels in determining what rogue talents you qualify for, but a better example of how things are poorly written for the hex is to read Ice Tomb. I just looked it up and it seems some FAQ/Erratta was made, so I'll have fun reading that tomorrow when I have the time.

I hope this clears up your misunderstandings with my post.

Diego Rossi wrote:

1) A bit paranoid. "I feel like you purposely misunderstand the things I write". No, you simply wrote something wrong.

2)"So, I pointed out with the white haired witch that it implies that you need to have rogue levels to replace them with your current witch levels, so without any level in rogue, you cannot replace them with witch. Also beyond that, if you happen to have levels in rogue, you don't add them together, but rather you completely replace them." I need to do a lot of work to interpret that rule that way.
It don't imply at all what you write. It simply say that you use your witch level to calculate how the rogue talents you acquire as a witch work.

2) "Diego, the point of op's question is that usually there is a translation with size and reach. A Fine creature threatens 0, while a Colossal (tall) creature threatens 30 ft, so some find it weird that regardless of your size that this hex will always and only benefit you 10 ft reach instead of having rules reflecting with your creature size."
spell, spell like powers, supernatural talents with a range normally have the same range, regardless of the creature actual size.
The prehensile hair are a supernatural ability so it if normal that they keep the same reach, regardless of the creature actual size.

If eh want the GM can change that, but there isn't anything wrond or unclear in how they work.

Human Fighter wrote:

Strange how I'm simply wrong in writing that a fine creature gets 10 ft reach hair by using this hex, along with pointing out that's that by RAW, and you "correct" me by saying that a fine creature gets 10 ft reach hair with this hex, while informing me about how spells, spell like abilities etc work.

To me it seem as you are changing what I corrected to pass as the wronged guy.

I corrected your assertion about the with haired witch, you accused me of purposely misunderstanding what you wrote when what you wrote was clearly wrong and you try to change what I said making it about the prehensile hair hex.

Liberty's Edge

One more question:

Can I use the hair for touch attacks (with reach)? It says I can use it as dextrously as my hand, but I'm not sure that means the same thing.


Yes, you can use the hair for touch attacks. Not because of the text mentioning it being like a hand, but because you can always deliver touch spells/abilities from a natural weapon (which the hair is).


Take a level of white haired witch.

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