Well first things first, everyone agrees mixed defenses are more important than maxing one ability at the cost of all else. But you probably already know that.
As a general rule of thumb, I usually consider level + 15 to be a decent AC, level + 20+ to be a strong AC, and to not even bother with anything below level + 10 AC.
As far as mythic goes, well that really, really depends on the Tier/Level ratio- but I will say, I think Mythic offers a lot more options for layered defense instead of pure AC. Mythic has plenty of ways to force rerolls, absorb damage, ignore critical, and other abilities.
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A shield does help alot. 2-7 more a.c..
Then your missing your +1 luck and insight bonus. Bonuses from ring of protection bonus.
You could also increase Dex and sport mithral.
Dodge bonus as well can be grabbed.
If you dont have those then your missing out on about 10 AC.
But the layered defenses are the way to go.
In the beastiary there is a monster creation part. Look at the suggested High attack at the different CLs.
Level 15 is +24, there a AC based frontliner should have 20 more before buffs if he want to feel safe.
And so on.
Don't forget the humble Shield spell: +4 Deflection. Get a wand or, if you can cast that spell get yourself a Lesser Quicken rod. There's arcane transmutation (polymorph) spells that'll give you Natural AC that stacks with your current N AC. Finally there's also an amulet of Natural Armor for even more N AC.
Imagine: Full Plate +4, Dex +1, going to a 1 H weapon to wield a heavy Steel Shield +4, and casting a Shield spell. You now have a 34 AC. Tack on the Dodge feat, a cape of the swashbuckler and some of the other items mentioned above and you could easily be pushing 40.
The OP is, "How much is 'good enough'?"
My THF in Carrion Crown finished at AC 29 at level 16, and that was good enough to avoid perhaps 1/3 to 1/4 of all incoming attacks. Not great.
As a GM, the paladin in Rise of the Runelords was at 34 at level 18. Most of my bad guys couldn't hit her, especially when she was Smiting, but she did take quite a few hits when she got surrounded.
So I'd say I agree with Merkatz' general rule of thumb:
- A THF frontliner is expected to have a lower AC, so treat Level+10 as an absolute minimum. Even raging (Barbarian/Fighter mix) my fighter was at 27, so beat this.
- A sword-and-board frontliner should have no less than Level+15, and preferably a bit more.
- An "I don't care if I ever hit, as long as they can't hit me" tank should be at least Level+20.
And that's before buffs. Every single PC should have Protection from Evil (for a 'free' +2) or something similar.
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How do you get AC to be level +15 or level +20? I am a 15 level anti-paladin. I am not sure how to do that.
I am at 27 or 38 when I smite good.
Dastard Full Plate +4 Dex +1 Natural armor +3 and 11 more when smiting. I am not sure where I can get more AC. I know a shield but I am using a two handed weapon. Would it change much if I had a shield?
It depends on your build and character goals, but generally speaking? Level +20 is extremely easy. Here is a fairly extreme AC example for level 20:
Halfling Fighter [Aldori Swordlord] 7/Aldori Swordlord 1/Duelist 10/Monk [Master of Many Forms] 2
Attributes: Str 5, Dex 36, Con 11, Int 24, Wis 24, Cha 9
10 base
1 size
13 Dex
7 Int
7 Wis
1 Monk
8 armor (bracers of armor +8)
5 deflection (ring of protection +5)
24 dodge (5 combat expertise, 5 defending weapon, 1 dodge feat, 13 fighting defensively)
1 insight (dusty rose ioun stone)
2 luck (jingasa of the fortunate solider + fate's favored trait)
5 natural (amulet of natural armor +5)
2 shield (aldori dueling mastery feat)
AC 86, touch 71, flat-footed 42
The fighting defensively breakdown is:
+2 standard
+4 rod of balance
+5 acrobatics bonus
+7 steel net from aldori swordlord archetype
+9 cautious fighter feat
+12 duelist elaborate parry
+13 crane style
How do you get AC to be level +15 or level +20? I am a 15 level anti-paladin. I am not sure how to do that.
I am at 27 or 38 when I smite good.
Dastard Full Plate +4 Dex +1 Natural armor +3 and 11 more when smiting. I am not sure where I can get more AC. I know a shield but I am using a two handed weapon. Would it change much if I had a shield?
You're missing a Ring of Protection, and with a two-handed weapon you're aiming for Level+10.
Base AC = 10
Dastard Full Plate +4 = +13
Dexterity Bonus = +1
Amulet of Natural Armor +3 = +3
(Ring of Protection +3) = +3
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AC = 30 = Level +15
Other than the ring, it seems like you're doing fine.
I'd have to run the math, but unless the GM loves masses of weak mobs, I'm pretty sure that at higher levels negative infinity AC and a miss chance is better than optimized, possibly even infinite, AC as any melee attacking opponent is going to beat your AC and many opponents don't target your normal AC (spells, area effects, touch attacks)
I see someone plays DDO! What you say is partially true, at later levels enemy casters do become more dangerous and attack bonuses do go up faster than AC, but the value of high AC can't be underestimated. The ability to shrug off power attacks or chained attacks is incredibly valuable.
Of course, what you said about miss chances is also true. It's mostly important to have multi-layered defenses. Have high AC and a miss chance, and if they get past that, have high hitpoints.
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Hmmm... Having good AC is nice, but it really shouldn't be so high that the enemy decides attacking your allies is a better idea. Ideally, your AC will be high enough that the average enemy has just slightly less than 50% chance of hitting you with their first attack.
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Let them ignore the ferocious two-hander capable of doing a hundred+ damage in one round. The more rounds they waste circumnavigating the meatshield are more rounds the meatshield is alive to put the hurt on. It will most definitely be to their detriment.
What happens if you're a frontliner who is terrible w/out buffs? It was pointed out to me above that Shield is a shield bonus, not deflection. As such I have the following:
Gregor
NG male human fighter (unbreakable)1/Wizard (transmuter)5/Eldritch Knight 5
Mithral Breastplate +2
Amulet of Natural Armor +2
Ring of Protection +2
Dex Bonus +3
Total Baseline AC 25
So this means that I'm Level +11 for my baseline AC. It isn't until I can get into Monstrous Physique II AND an Extended Shield quickened with a rod that my AC jumps to 31 which is Level +20; at the same time my familiar will be hitting me with a scroll of Displacement for a 50% miss chance.
Gregor is meant to be a frontliner. My GM told me to make a tank but also offer at least a little arcane support as the party was lacking, so the above details part of the build. Is there something else I should be doing for his AC?
What happens if you're a frontliner who is terrible w/out buffs? It was pointed out to me above that Shield is a shield bonus, not deflection. As such I have the following:
** spoiler omitted **
So this means that I'm Level +11 for my baseline AC. It isn't until I can get into Monstrous Physique II AND an Extended Shield quickened with a rod that my AC jumps to 31 which is Level +20; at the same time my familiar will be hitting me with a scroll of Displacement for a 50% miss chance.
Gregor is meant to be a frontliner. My GM told me to make a tank but also offer at least a little arcane support as the party was lacking, so the above details part of the build. Is there something else I should be doing for his AC?
First of all your math is off; If you're CL 11 and have an AC of 25 you're at CL+14, not CL+11. As a martial/arcane hybrid, you're going to have to go to buffs to get frontliner AC, such as the Shield spell, which will bring you up to CL+18. Add in haste and you're at CL+19, which is decent. My greater concern is that you're being asked to fill two roles with your character, which necessarily is going to stretch you thin. What are the other PCs?
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Is there something else I should be doing for his AC?Off the top of my head I see these two. You have 2 points of max dex bonus unused on your armor, a belt of dexterity or physical might would not be amiss for 1 or 2 points - the cat's grace buff would also give 2 more AC and is only a 2nd level spell. dusty rose prism ioun stone is only 5,000G so there should be a good reason for a front-liner to not have one at level 11.
The Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier is also amazing and should be something you have. As is a Quick Runner's shirt, though the latter has nothing to do with AC.