Feral Neanderthal for PFS


Advice


Friend wants to run a caveman type PC.

His original desire was to use a large creatures greatclub. But I guess by the rules, that isn’t possible. So, we’ve been talking about what else is close to what he was thinking.

Barbarian with the True Primitive archtype uses a greatclub and thrown rocks
Bloodrager with the Draconic or Abyssal bloodline to fight with his claws
Rage Prophet on top of True Primitive

He deliberately wants both dex and intelligence to be low. Slow to react, uncoordinated, hulking, and stupid is what he’s going for. With either somewhat likable (cha 12-14, wis 10) or alert to his surroundings (wis 12-14, cha 10). Strength and constitution as high as can go.

Low dex and prob hide armor means he will have to endure a lot of punishment. So might actually take things like toughness and/or (I can’t immediately remember the other that gave +6 hp).

I think he is leaning toward ½ Orc, Tiefling, or Dwarf for the race.

Any thoughts? Have you seen a similar caveman concept tried?

Scarab Sages

Invulnerable Rager. If you are low Dex you are going to be hit, so you will need all the DR you can get to soak up the damage

Dark Archive

I've a brutal pugilist Barbarian with a 5 Int that I have an absolute ball with. He doesn't have a weapon when he arrives to scenarios. Generally he picks up one of the first things he sees and uses that for the course of the evening.

In one of his first scenarios he picked up a rotting pig carcass and bludgeoned his way through a fairly tough scenario* for someone under leveled.

I recommend Tiefling and going with someone that loses some int (either demon Spawn or Qlippoth Spawn). That depends on if it fits his concept.

Eventually my Pugilist will be taking Body Bludgeon.

This advice isn't the most optimal, but it is very fun. If you want the optimal decision... it's probably Invulnerable Rager... 'cause it's always Invulnerable Rager.

As an aside... If he's willing to lost a level in Barbarian, a dip in the playtest Swashbuckler isn't a bad idea defensively. A Parry or two a round can help out a lot.

Tough Scenario*:
Thornkeep 1


Paizo recently released (as a reward for the Gauntlet thing) a Caveman race, by the way, if you want to check it out.


Imbicatus wrote:
Invulnerable Rager. If you are low Dex you are going to be hit, so you will need all the DR you can get to soak up the damage

I will bring it up with him, but there as so many Invulnerable Ragers at our local that I doubt he will go for it.

Rynjin wrote:
Paizo recently released (as a reward for the Gauntlet thing) a Caveman race, by the way, if you want to check it out.

What Gauntlet thing and where is this Caveman race?!?

Liberty's Edge

Is he willing to go high Charisma?

Because a level of Lunar Oracle to grab Dex for AC followed by Invulnerable Rager Barbarian is actually quite solid mechanically and thematic for a caveman.

Going Half-Orc for Sacred Tattoo and grabbing the Fate's Favored trait and the Divine Favor spell for pre-combat buffing is a very good decision if going this route. You can also pick up Endurance and sleep in that Hide Armor you mentioned.

Liberty's Edge

Revolving Door Alternate wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
Invulnerable Rager. If you are low Dex you are going to be hit, so you will need all the DR you can get to soak up the damage
I will bring it up with him, but there as so many Invulnerable Ragers at our local that I doubt he will go for it.

Sad. It's a good match for the concept. My above suggestions work for other Barbarian types, too, though.

Revolving Door Alternate wrote:
Rynjin wrote:
Paizo recently released (as a reward for the Gauntlet thing) a Caveman race, by the way, if you want to check it out.
What Gauntlet thing and where is this Caveman race?!?

This gauntlet thing.

And the caveman race is sadly not PFS legal.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

1 person marked this as a favorite.

i'm not certain it'll fit his concept, but from an optimization standpoint the qlippoth-spawn tiefling would be a great option (+2 str/wis, -2 Int, and a bonus to survival)... if he wants to be from a savage tribe so far removed from the rest of the world that they still revere the forgotten ones, his heritage could be seen as a bizzare blessing (or could be the result of terrible rituals carried out by a depraved shaman). either way, a True Primitive barbarian sounds like the way to go conceptually. (the Armor of the Pit racial feat will help offset the terrible AC from hide+bad dex).

one other thing to consider... one of the few archetypes that stacks with True Primitive is Mad Dog, if your friend wants to have like a dinosaur or sabre tooth tiger companion ;)

Scarab Sages

The problem with True Primitive is that it's illiterate and cannot EVER learn to read even after multiclassing. This is a pretty huge disadvantage in PFS scenarios, and from a RP perspective, it doesn't make sense that someone who is so superstitious that they will never learn to read or write would join an organization that purpose is to chronicle knowledge.


Incidentally, the neanderthals had the parts of their brains that deal with coordination and physical control better developed than we do, so an actual neanderthal would likely have high Dexterity (and Strength) compared to regular humans. However conceptual intelligence (Int) would likely be lower than typical modern humans.

I'd put Wisdom higher than Cha; expecting such a character to have good 'tribal wisdom' and perception, but limited skills at dealing with those outside of his tribal group.

Of the race options you give, I'd go Dwarf or Half-orc.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I have halfling true primitive/mad dog with a T-Rex animal companion based on Moon-Boy and Devil Dinosaur for PFS who is tremendous fun to play. I recommend Splintering Weapon and carrying stone clubs or stone shortspears as back-up and ranged weapons. The stone clubs are free too so you rarely lack for weapons that can cause bleed.

I haven't had any problems with being illiterate. The other players read everything and just point my cave-halfling at the bad guys. As far as reporting to the PFS goes, for a mere 10PP you can acquire the Chronicler vanity and have a guy who follows you around recording everything you do. I don't think it's too far a stretch to say you can ask your chronicler to read things to you when you're not in combat and need to look over some important document.


Never thought about the Mad Dog. I will see if he is open to it.

sgriobhadair wrote:
Incidentally, the neanderthals had the parts of their brains that deal with coordination and physical control better developed than we do, so an actual neanderthal would likely have high Dexterity (and Strength) compared to regular humans. ...

You know that and I know that. However, almost everyone has some clumsy brute like an ogre as their mental image of a caveman.

In reality, a clumsy ape shaped creature with thin hide and little in the way of natural weapons, camouflage, or any kind of speed advantage would have been unlikely to survive long.

Deadmanwalking wrote:
... a level of Lunar Oracle to grab Dex for AC followed by Invulnerable Rager Barbarian is actually quite solid mechanically and thematic for a caveman...

I think he would be open to it, but neither of us have that book. I doubt he will be willing to buy it for just this one character. But I will ask him.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

if he's still thinking about rage prophet (and doesn't want to buy the book for lunar) the nature mystery also lets you get Cha to AC and an animal companion (though their list of options is poor).

Shadow Lodge

Imbicatus wrote:
The problem with True Primitive is that it's illiterate and cannot EVER learn to read even after multiclassing. This is a pretty huge disadvantage in PFS scenarios, and from a RP perspective, it doesn't make sense that someone who is so superstitious that they will never learn to read or write would join an organization that purpose is to chronicle knowledge.

I was going to say something similar. PFS assumes working for a knowledge-gathering not-so-secret society. I'm interested to hear about the character angle that fits into this campaign premise.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I was thinking if he's still considering rage prophet, go stone oracle and take rock throwing. So when he throws the rocks, they HURT. There was a thread floating around on a build not too long ago.


Ok, the nature mystery would be fine. I don't think he would take the animal companion since it only allows horse or camel (but it's still an option).

I don't think he would be interested in that massively complicated rock throwing specialist. Just that if he needs to use ranged attacks they will probably be rocks.

mcbobbo wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
The problem with True Primitive is that it's illiterate and cannot EVER learn to read even after multiclassing. This is a pretty huge disadvantage in PFS scenarios, and from a RP perspective, it doesn't make sense that someone who is so superstitious that they will never learn to read or write would join an organization that purpose is to chronicle knowledge.
I was going to say something similar. PFS assumes working for a knowledge-gathering not-so-secret society. I'm interested to hear about the character angle that fits into this campaign premise.

Pretty much that he would just be going along because he is an ally/friend of my character. And no, I don't know what mine would be yet. But probably something intellectual or highly dexterous just to be wildly different from his.

Scarab Sages

Revolving Door Alternate wrote:

Ok, the nature mystery would be fine. I don't think he would take the animal companion since it only allows horse or camel (but it's still an option).

I don't think he would be interested in that massively complicated rock throwing specialist. Just that if he needs to use ranged attacks they will probably be rocks.

mcbobbo wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
The problem with True Primitive is that it's illiterate and cannot EVER learn to read even after multiclassing. This is a pretty huge disadvantage in PFS scenarios, and from a RP perspective, it doesn't make sense that someone who is so superstitious that they will never learn to read or write would join an organization that purpose is to chronicle knowledge.
I was going to say something similar. PFS assumes working for a knowledge-gathering not-so-secret society. I'm interested to hear about the character angle that fits into this campaign premise.
Pretty much that he would just be going along because he is an ally/friend of my character. And no, I don't know what mine would be yet. But probably something intellectual or highly dexterous just to be wildly different from his.

If you are going to be playing together all the time, pick up teamwork feats and or butterfly's sting whatever you pick. They can be very effective if multiple people have them, but usually the only people that will have them in a PFS game are inquisitors, but they are very effective if you will be gaming together.


Imbicatus wrote:

...

If you are going to be playing together all the time, pick up teamwork feats and or butterfly's sting whatever you pick. They can be very effective if multiple people have them, but usually the only people that will have them in a PFS game are inquisitors, but they are very effective if you will be gaming together.

We were talking about that. But if he is a beat stick and I'm a squishy wizard, there isn't much in the teamwork list that jumped out as helpful.

I have a pair with another guy where we are a hunter and an inquisitor that will be making extensive use of teamwork feats.

And a home group will all take stealth synergy when we start our next campaign.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

if you want to make a wildly different companion go for highest possible tech...
how about gunslinger 1 into alchemist? high dex/int, high tech... you can pick up that discovery that allows you to add bomb damage to your bullets (explosive ammunition) should be a pretty awesome combo :)


nate lange wrote:

if you want to make a wildly different companion go for highest possible tech...

how about gunslinger 1 into alchemist? high dex/int, high tech... you can pick up that discovery that allows you to add bomb damage to your bullets (explosive ammunition) should be a pretty awesome combo :)

That sounds awesome especially since I've never played an alchemist or a gunslinger. But it would allow for wild divergence between the PC's!

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

it should be an effective combo too- guns targeting touch AC will solve a lot of problems for the 3/4 BAB alchemist, and the alchemist's dex boosting mutagen and buffing extracts should allow you to be a pretty solid threat in combat (doing bomb damage on your bullets won't hurt either).

also, you're probably not going to be using poison really, so pick an archetype that replaces poison use, like grenadier- with a full round you could stack their Alchemical Weapon ability with an Explosive Missile shot from a double hackbut... when that comes online @5th level, that's 2d12 base+(2d6+Int bomb)+1d6 acid (or whatever other alchemical item you chose to use)+any feats/discoveries you invest into damage... with 16 int that's an average of >26 damage, vs touch AC (plus the bombs still do splash damage to creatures adjacent to the target)


We talked he likes the combination of True Primitive and Mad Dog barbarian archtypes.

Either 1/2 orc or dwarf (though he is still looking through the Blood of Fiends and Blood of Angels books).

Edit: Weapon would be mostly just greatclub. With probably the occasional thrown rock.

Not sure of animal companion yet. Though an ape or boar sounds suitably primitive and brutal.

Not yet sure of feats or rage powers (except that ferocious beast and maybe greater ferocious beast sound good). Some teamwork feats between him and the beast are probably a good idea if that is allowed in PFS.

Any more ideas for him?

{I will start working on my alchemi-slinger in another thread.}

Scarab Sages

Beast Totem is common, but it's just so damn effective. If you want something less common, but still good and fits better with a True Primitive concept, Spirit Totem is good. You get an extra negative energy attack each round, a miss chance vs range or reach (good for a true primitives low ac), and an automatic damage aura.

Sovereign Court

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Imbicatus wrote:
The problem with True Primitive is that it's illiterate and cannot EVER learn to read even after multiclassing. This is a pretty huge disadvantage in PFS scenarios, and from a RP perspective, it doesn't make sense that someone who is so superstitious that they will never learn to read or write would join an organization that purpose is to chronicle knowledge.

Kitsune Pathfinder bard to the venture captain: So we were in this jungle and we were attacked by dinosaurs and this guy saved us! He Jumped out of the jungle, leaped on the back of the dinosaur and stabbed it through the eye with a bone dagger... a... bone.. dagger. Can we keep him? I promise I'll walk him and bathe him and get him some clothes. Pleaaaaaaaaaaaase?" *tailwag*

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

well... he'd have some time to decide but personally i've really been itching to find any opportunity to play a mad dog barbarian 6/mammoth rider! it looks so epic. what's more primitive and brutal than a boar animal companion? how about a huge sized raging rhinoceros, or sabre tooth tiger, or dinosaur! whether he heads that way or not, ferocious companion should definitely be his 4th level rage power. the feat someone mentioned earlier where you can break a primitive weapon to deal bleed damage is pretty awesome, and since you're down a few levels worth of rounds of rage/day (and will want extra rage to fuel ferocious companion) the berserker of the society trait and the extra rage feat are good options (as is the extra rage power feat).

hope that's helpful. i'll keep an eye out for your alche-slinger thread :)


A raging rhino would definitely be epic.

But it seems like it wouldn't be able to take part if very many of the PFS scenarios.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Revolving Door Alternate wrote:

A raging rhino would definitely be epic.

But it seems like it wouldn't be able to take part if very many of the PFS scenarios.

that's a valid concern...

you could give the companion max ranks in escape artist and pick up the narrow frame and lithe attacker feats to get a lot more use in dungeons and whatnot, but it is kind of troublesome to have a huge companion in tight quarters


Well, here is the start of a build up to level 11.
I went to happy on the rage powers. I will need to remove some of those to get some other things.

Clubber:

Clubber
Dwarf Barbarian (Mad Dog, True Primitive, Spirit Totem) 11
N Medium humanoid (dwarf)
Init -2; Senses darkvision 90 ft.; Perception +15
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 14, touch 8, flat-footed 14 (+6 armor, -2 Dex)
hp 137 (11d12+55)
Fort +14, Ref +3, Will +6 (+2 bonus vs. spells and spell-like abilities of the enchantment (charm) school, +2 bonus vs. spells and spell-like abilities of the enchantment (compulsion) school); -2 vs. [light] effects, +4 morale bonus vs. spells, supernatural abilities, and spell-like abilities while raging but must resist all spells, even allies'
Defensive Abilities defensive training (+4 dodge bonus to AC vs. giants); DR 1/—; Resist stubborn
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 20 ft.
Melee +1 elysian bronze greatclub +16/+11/+6 (1d10+7+2d6 on charge)
Special Attacks +1 on attack rolls against goblinoid and orc humanoids, rage (37 rounds/day), rage powers (ferocious beast, ferocious beast, greater, fiend totem, fiend totem, lesser, superstition +4)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 19, Dex 7, Con 20, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 5
Base Atk +11; CMB +15; CMD 23 (27 vs. bull rush, 27 vs. trip)
Feats Extra Rage Power, Extra Rage Power, Extra Rage Power, Outflank, Power Attack, Shake It Off
Traits berserker of the society, observant
Skills Acrobatics +2 (-2 jump), Climb +8, Handle Animal +4, Intimidate +1, Knowledge (nature) +3, Perception +15 (+17 to notice unusual stonework), Ride +2, Sense Motive +16, Survival +5, Swim +8
Languages Common, Dwarven
SQ favored terrain (underground +6), ferocious fetch, illiteracy, minesight, pack tactics, trophy fetish
Other Gear rhino hide, +1 elysian bronze greatclub, 150 gp
--------------------
TRACKED RESOURCES
--------------------
Rage (37 rounds/day) (Ex) - 0/37
Trophy Fetish (Rhino hide) (1/day) (Ex) - 0/1
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Animal Companion Link (Ex) You have a link with your Animal Companion.
Berserker of the Society +3 rounds of Rage a day.
Damage Reduction (1/-) You have Damage Reduction against all attacks.
Darkvision (90 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Defensive Training +4 Gain a dodge bonus to AC vs monsters of the Giant subtype.
Favored Terrain (Underground +6) (Ex) +6 to rolls vs Favored Terrain (Underground).
Ferocious Beast (Ex) When raging, animal companion also rages. Spend 1 extra rd if adjacent, or 2 rds if not.
Ferocious Beast, Greater (Ex) When raging, animal companion also gains the benefits of constant rage powers.
Ferocious Fetch (Ex) As a swift action, war beast attempts to drag a foe in 30 ft to you.
Fiend Totem (Su) While raging, those striking you in melee take 1d6 damage.
Fiend Totem, Lesser (Su) Gain d8 gore attack while raging
Hatred +1 Gain a racial bonus to attacks vs Goblinoids/Orcs.
Illiteracy May never learn to read or write any language.
Minesight Dazzled in bright light and -2 to save vs light effects.
Outflank Increase flank bonus by +2 if flanking ally has same feat. If you crit, ally gets an AoO.
Pack Tactics (Ex) Both master and war beast gain +4 when flanking with each other.
Power Attack -3/+6 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Rage (37 rounds/day) (Ex) +4 Str, +4 Con, +2 to Will saves, -2 to AC when enraged.
Rhino hide Extra 2d6 damaga on charge attack rolls.
Shake It Off Gain +1 to all saving throws per adjacent ally
Stubborn +2 Gain bonus to save vs. Charm/Compulsion spells, resave next rd if you fail.
Superstition +4 (Ex) While raging, gain bonus to save vs magic, but must resist all spells, even allies'.
Trophy Fetish (Rhino hide) (1/day) (Ex) Attach trophies to weapon or armor to gain morale bonus to dam or saves.

Ape Companion:

Animal Companion
Ape
N Large animal
Init +4; Senses low-light vision, scent; Perception +9
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 22, touch 13, flat-footed 18 (+4 Dex, -1 size, +9 natural)
hp 67 (+27)
Fort +8, Ref +10, Will +4 (+4 morale bonus vs. Enchantment spells and effects)
Defensive Abilities evasion; DR 1/—
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft., climb 30 ft.
Melee bite +12 (1d6+7) and
. . 2 claws +12 (1d6+7)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 24, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 4, Wis 12, Cha 7
Base Atk +6; CMB +14 (+16 drag); CMD 28 (30 vs. drag)
Feats Eldritch Claws, Improved Drag, Multiattack, Outflank, Rending Claws, Shake It Off, Toughness
Tricks Attack, Attack, Attack Any Target, Break Out, Come, Defend, Detect, Down, Fighting, Flank, Guard, Heel, Maneuver (Grapple), Menace, Sneak, Stay, Track, Watch
Skills Acrobatics +8, Climb +19, Perception +9, Stealth +4, Swim +11
SQ attack any target, break out, come, defend, detect, devotion, fighting, flank, guard, heel, maneuver, menace, multiattack / extra attack, sneak, track, watch
--------------------
TRACKED RESOURCES
--------------------
. . -none-
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Attack Any Target [Trick] The animal will attack any creature on command.
Break Out [Trick] Chews through bars and bindings restricting itself or indicated creature.
Climbing (30 feet) You have a Climb speed.
Come [Trick] The animal will come to you on command.
Damage Reduction (1/-) You have Damage Reduction against all attacks.
Defend [Trick] The animal will defend you.
Detect [Trick] Indicates unusual smells, noises, etc.
Devotion +4 (Ex) +4 morale bonus on Will Saves vs. Enchantments.
Eldritch Claws Your natural weapons are considered both magic and silver for purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
Evasion (Ex) No damage on successful reflex save.
Fighting [Trick] The animal has been trained to fight.
Flank [Trick] Attempts to attack and flank indicated enemy.
Guard [Trick] The animal stays in place and prevents others from approaching.
Heel [Trick] The animal will follow you.
Improved Drag You Drag at +2 and don't cause an attack of opportunity.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Maneuver [Trick] (Grapple) Attempts specified maneuver against target.
Menace [Trick] Attempts to keep creature from moving.
Multiattack / Extra Attack Multiattack or second attack with primary weapon at a -5 penalty.
Outflank Increase flank bonus by +2 if flanking ally has same feat. If you crit, ally gets an AoO.
Rending Claws If you hit a foe with 2 claw attacks in a turn, add 1d6 precision damage to the second hit.
Scent (Ex) Detect opponents within 15+ feet by sense of smell.
Shake It Off Gain +1 to all saving throws per adjacent ally
Sneak [Trick] Creature stays hidden.
Track [Trick] The animal will track a scent.
Watch [Trick] Stands watch over designated area.


Since he seems to want some fiendish element to the character, he could take the Fiend Totem powers. Beast Totem is better, but Fiend Totem can definitely work.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Feral Neanderthal for PFS All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Advice