Demons


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


Hi Everyone,

i´m playing my first game and lost my Hero last weekend.

So i´m about to make a new Hero.
I am really interested ind Demons and Devils.

And i was thinking about getting an Tiefling Sorcerer with Abyssal Bloodline.

And Maybe later on choosing a Patron and doing the Rituals to become a real Half demon.

I really want to go in this direction of Demons/Devils. And i want to have Arcane Powers.

But my real problem right now is. My group has good alignment and i don´t know how to get my Hero approved by my DM. I Thought of hiding my alignment from the group and doing everything behind them?

Hope you guys could help me out?


You just need to prepare/cast Undetectable Alignment every day.

There might be magic items that do the same effect or similar.


no sorcerer/wizard spell...?


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If you are planning on running an Evil aligned character in a Good aligned game you might face a few problems.

Generally it is a bad idea to make a character that goes against what everyone else is doing. It can be disruptive and cause a lot of inter-party conflict.

That being said, talk to your group to see if they would be fine with your idea before doing anything. If they are willing to play as a Good party with an Evil tag-along then that is up to them.


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darkkilltec wrote:

My group has good alignment and i don´t know how to get my Hero approved by my DM. I Thought of hiding my alignment from the group and doing everything behind them?

Hope you guys could help me out?

Try talking to your GM about how to do it maybe? Sometimes it helps to have a chat and see if any houserules are in play or could be made. Could really help the story and keep people from jumping if you spring things on them.


ok thank you guys so far :)

and does it even make sense to play a tiefling? because tiefling already is an outlander?

Or would that make more sense? Tiefling sorceress with Abyssal Bloodline trying to become more of a demon ? Trying to claim his Heritage?

The Exchange

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I know it's not exactly what you were going for, but if you run a tiefling sorceror with the Draconic bloodline - or a bard - you can later get into the Dragon Disciple prestige class. You get the bat-wings, the fire breath, etc. etc... and you don't have to take an alignment that will put you at odds with the existing party members. (Dragon disciple is a prestige class that will take some care to make effective, so you may want to consult the boards for threads on making a capable DD.)


You could be neutral, and later on seek the dark path.


A lot of GM's don't allow evil pc's in a normal campaign because they have no reason to join a good party. You don't want to rescue the princess, save the village and help the paladin because you are evil. A Rovagug cleric will destroy the world, not save it. If you want to play a evil character, join a evil party. If you're playing a evil PC who's helping the good guys, you're doing it wrong.


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Tcho Tcho wrote:
You don't want to rescue the princess, save the village and help the paladin because you are evil.

Turn down a chance to save a princess and gain political favor(Or better yet, a princess's favor!)? What's wrong with Tcho?

Dark Archive

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Tcho Tcho wrote:
If you're playing a evil PC who's helping the good guys, you're doing it wrong.

I'm sure he could find a hook or reason if the other players are down with it. No one is "doing it wrong" since there's no standard for "doing it right" without treading into badwrongfun territory.


Ok you can be evil and hook up with the good party for whatever reason, but how will you be evil if you actually kill all the bad guys and help the good guys? Own benefits would normally make you no more evil than any neutral player. Eventually you would have to do something about those goody's saving the world. Party kill is not a thing I would encourage because this might be fun for you, but not for the rest of the team. So to avoid pc's killing each other I would go either good or bad party, with neutrals joining who they like. I now it isn't a rule but that's what I told my player who wanted to be evil in a good campaign.


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Tcho Tcho wrote:
Ok you can be evil and hook up with the good party for whatever reason, but how will you be evil if you acually kill all the bad guys and help the good guys?

By looting the bad guys and being generally evil? I'm not seeing why killing bad guys makes me a good guy. Just because your evil aligned doesn't mean you have to kill your teammates. I don't know where your getting that from. In-game you really shouldn't know if your good or evil anyway, you should just be... you.


Yes that does make a lot of sense. But personally, I coudn't live with myself saving princesses and all.


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My thoughts are CE (which is what demons are, so presumably the alignment you would be tending towards) is pretty much the least group friendly alignment, especially if everyone else is Good. So bring it up to the GM and see what he things. Definitely don't try to hide it from the GM and be careful about hiding it from the party. Otherwise your character stands a good chance of getting killed off.


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Tcho Tcho wrote:
Yes that does make a lot of sense. But personally, I coudn't live with myself saving princesses and all.

I can. They're loaded! [/evil]

Dark Archive

haha, all day, but more importantly all night ;)


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MrSin wrote:
darkkilltec wrote:

My group has good alignment and i don´t know how to get my Hero approved by my DM. I Thought of hiding my alignment from the group and doing everything behind them?

Hope you guys could help me out?

Try talking to your GM about how to do it maybe? Sometimes it helps to have a chat and see if any houserules are in play or could be made. Could really help the story and keep people from jumping if you spring things on them.

First, I am not totally against the idea if the next part sounds that way.

Second, be very careful with this. Many players (and GM's) do not handle evil characters well. I know everyone agrees it is all a game. But I've seen people get real life angry because the make believe character was doing evil things.

Third, how good is the rest of the group? If there are paladins or even inquisitors and clerics of a really goody god, then this will probably not work out well. (Unless you are going to let them redeem you from your evil ways.)

Fourth, I would only recommend this if you go LE. When ever someone tries to do NE or CE it is often seen as the player just wants to be a jack-hole and screw with the other players. Even if that is not your intent The are likely to think it is.

Fifth, talk with the other players and GM before you devote to much time and effort into falling in love with the idea. Many groups simply will not tolerate it no matter how well you think you can handle it.

Sixth, it can work with some groups. I've done it. (I don't think it would work with my current group.)
I once ran a LE fighter. He loved killing people. He loved beating people down and humiliating them in a fight. He loved ruining their plans and aspirations.
However, he was smart enough to know that would get him in serious trouble sooner or later. So he worked for the authorities. He only let himself go-to-smack-town when he was given a job by the authorities (including the pardons and/or authorizations to do what was necessary) in writing.
The authorities did not like the way he work or his gleeful attitude about it. But they liked results. Several times they did try to catch him exceeding his authority, but he was careful about that. He would request the bad guys surrender. But he had no ranks in diplomacy or intimidate. They would almost always refuse. So he would smile and let himself go.

So it is certainly possible, but not in all groups or campaigns.

-------------------------------------------------

The build to use is a totally different subject. Tiefling is great. But as I said I would go devilish and the LE side of things. It is generally better accepted.

Do you like casters, melee, gish, summons, domination, etc...
What books do you have available to build from? (The ARG and Blood of Fiends have some very nice things for this.)
Character build rules and levels used for the campaign?


Think the bigger picture for me is that normal campaigns have the great evil treathening the city/ world/ grandma, and you should be stopping that (like in every AP) and normally a evil pc has other interest than helping the good guys defeat the bad guys. Ofcourse if you can think of a nice character to actually fit this role and your GM approves than go for it. Just pointing out some issues here, because like I said, if I was playing a chaotic evil abbysal thiefling (just to name something nice) I would want to see the world burn, not rescue it, and therefor I would really not be suprised if my GM didn't allow my character to join the crew.


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Tcho Tcho wrote:
... if I was playing a chaotic evil abbysal thiefling (just to name something nice) I would want to see the world burn, not rescue it, and therefor I would really not be suprised if my GM didn't allow my character to join the crew.

How about:

I don't want the Demi-Lich-Lord to take over the country because eventually I want to run it.
So I need to build up my personal power and base of influence. The first step is to stop the DLL so all these pitiful sheep think I'm the hero that deserves to rule the land.


my suggestion to you would be infernal bloodline and do lawful evil, they are the easiest to fit in with a good party, why would they preform good act, as mr.sin pointed save the princess to gain political favor, or to get information to blackmail someone they hate or want to remove from power. being lawful you going to have some kind of code you look up to or follow so you are less likely to betray your good comrades. One of the Icon pathfinder heros is lawful evil. I find Abyssal bloodline works better if taken as secondary bloodline, via Eldritch heritage feats.


Kydeem de'Morcaine wrote:
Tcho Tcho wrote:
... if I was playing a chaotic evil abbysal thiefling (just to name something nice) I would want to see the world burn, not rescue it, and therefor I would really not be suprised if my GM didn't allow my character to join the crew.

How about:

I don't want the Demi-Lich-Lord to take over the country because eventually I want to run it.
So I need to build up my personal power and base of influence. The first step is to stop the DLL so all these pitiful sheep think I'm the hero that deserves to rule the land.

Yeah, running away is just one option, any alignment can do if the character is a coward too. You can also stay to loot, fight because you want the place, fight because you get paid pretty well and people will like you, etc. Lots to gain!

Anyways... my usual suggestion for getting the half-fiend template is to homebrew one with the GM. Templates as written are usually built for NPCs and can be pretty unbalancing and not very flavorful, so actually crafting one can go a long way to making it personal and balanced. Double win!


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If you want to go Abyssal, killing sinful people will fuel the Abyss. So helping the demonic army could be a reason for you badass Pc.

If your GM is not afraid to give a spoiler an opposed evil allignment is a pretty strong reason. Ofcourse you help any one stopping lamasthu if you are LE and so on.


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Kyton Spawn with the Pit-Touched sorcerer bloodline or Rakasha Spawn with the Rakasha sorcerer bloodline would be good.


Kydeem de'Morcaine wrote:
Kyton Spawn with the Pit-Touched sorcerer bloodline.

my friend is doing this in my game right now, he also took Eldritch heritage feats. he has got +6 to str and con from this, Wings, posion immunity, good resistances, extra summoning of fiendish creatures. he skill focus knowledge planes was not as bad feat tax as he uses it often and it was one of his bloodline bonus feats for pit-touched.


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KainPen wrote:
my suggestion to you would be infernal bloodline and do lawful evil, they are the easiest to fit in with a good party, why would they preform good act, as mr.sin pointed save the princess to gain political favor, or to get information to blackmail someone they hate or want to remove from power. being lawful you going to have some kind of code you look up to or follow so you are less likely to betray your good comrades. One of the Icon pathfinder heros is lawful evil. I find Abyssal bloodline works better if taken as secondary bloodline, via Eldritch heritage feats.

Indeed. Asmodeus was more than happy to play a key role in the sealing of Rovagug, and is considered notably trustworthy by the good aligned gods (though his assistance is only asked for in the most dire of circumstances, of course). It's not hard to find evil motivations to do good things.


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EDIT: sorry for the half-finished post - a toddler jumped on me with a large, heavy thing, a strange bug buzzed at my head, and I - in an attempt to catch my son, duck my head (and avoid the heavy thing), and avoid a buzzing thing, managed to punch myself in the nose... and submit the post. Fixing it now.

(Really, though, it was kind of legendary, being able to say that, in an attempt to avoid self-harm (and harm to your son), you accidentally punched yourself in the nose. :D)

Kydeeem, Lincoln, and others have very excellent points - Kydeem's especially is poignant, and I highly recommend reading over it more than once.

So, to add something of my own, allow me to comment on...

MMCJawa wrote:
My thoughts are CE (which is what demons are, so presumably the alignment you would be tending towards) is pretty much the least group friendly alignment, especially if everyone else is Good. So bring it up to the GM and see what he things. Definitely don't try to hide it from the GM and be careful about hiding it from the party. Otherwise your character stands a good chance of getting killed off.

This is rather true, but if you're absolutely set (you don't seem to be, but if you ever are) there are ways.

First, you have to get something down that's very important.

Occasionally, you must (not "should", but absolutely, postively, with no "if"s "and"s or "but"s MUST) make decisions not because the character would, but instead because it's better for the game, group, and play. After making the decision, you then come up for a reason why it's chaotic evil and in-character.

To give an example:

The CE character is confronted with the option of betraying the party and gaining power, or not betraying the party and sharing their doom.

This sounds like every CE character's dream come true!

But you, as the player, not as the character, must decide to say "no".

Why would you say no?

It doesn't really matter - you can come up with your own reasons; however, here are some possibilities:
1) you're in love with one of the PCs or the princess, or whatever (yes, you're chaotic evil, but you also have reasonable mental faculties and aren't an automaton that always pushes the "chaotic evil" button)
2) you don't trust the creature offering the deal (why should they share absolute power with you once your friends are dead? they reward betrayal - they're obviously not averse to it themselves - and it only makes sense that they'd want to keep whatever they were after more for themselves, or someone they could trust more than a traitor like you would prove yourself to be; thus you cannot, in any reasonable way, trust the creature)
3) you want to see the *%^()$#@!~ burn (why? I dunno - you're chaotic evil; seems legit to me - I mean, you have been trying to kill him this whole time)
4) for better or worse, you (the character) believe the cretins you pal around with are going to succeed (even if you betray them), and it amuses you to no end to have all these goody-two-shoes indebted to you
5) really, you're evil, but you care <expletive*>-all for the "power" offered (because, really, it's just a form of slavery) - this freak can kiss your <expletive*> for <expletive>'(s) sake; the <expletive*>-<expletive*>-<caustic slur**>
6) you suspect that actually accepting this deal will ultimately cause you to be unable to fulfill your own desires or goals (whatever those are) down the road for <insert guess or reason>, or, if you do, you're certain it won't be fulfilling because <insert reason, ex: it wasn't you that earned it, but you had to suffer through "hand-me-downs" or "sloppy seconds" or something>

... and so on. In pretty much any situation, you, the player, make the decision that's best for the gaming group (not best for the characters, but best for the gaming group - for the players, not the PCs), and then justify it in a chaotic evil way.

You can even have a few non-chaotic evil foibles about you (such as truly loving someone or something) so long as that doesn't force you into good behavior.

I am currently running a recruited chaotic evil GMPC in much the same manner. For her own political reasons, she's made herself completely invaluable to the group; additionally, she's secretly irrevocably in love/lust with a PC that she hero-worships forever***, and thus desperately wishes to impress, and assist in any way whatsoever she possibly can (her chaotic evil tendencies aside). She is ruthless, murderous, calculating, and monstrous - but she keeps the worst excesses in check, because she doesn't want the disapproval of the PC in question. Thus, she's been fabulously useful (made herself fabulously useful) to the group in question, using her ties, influence, and appearance to ensure that the PCs have everything they need whenever they need it. She just leaves out the part where she's doing so by going around, manipulating people, lying, and breaking hearts casually (both for the purpose of severing her ties when they leave, and just to watch people cry). So far, it's worked out rather well, though the PCs are suspicious of her, they've also kind of come to trust/rely on her.

Of course, were it me as just a PC, I would probably go the CN route, and attempt to get my evil demon-power with that alignment instead (or maybe even CG)^^. But that's just me. :D

* What expletive? I don't know. I have to have Autocorrect even tell me how to spell the word "expletive". Similarly, the random symbols are pretty much exactly that - I just got them off of the numbers up top. I have no idea what word goes up there. :) Additionally, I don't recommend using actual expletives, unless your table does. I mean I don't recommend using actual expletives regardless, but, you know, I'm not you.
Yes, I know expletives, I just don't use them.
** No clue on this, either. :D

*** Said PC kind of accidentally created the GMPC by removing the chaotic evil side of another player-recruited/requested GMPC^, permanently and irrevocably impressing that evil side with the PCs' presence and will via magical influence stuff in order to ensure, and then accidentally allowing it to incarnate through other magical effects: 100% PC decision, not GM influence in said sequence - and then deciding that they couldn't kill her because they'd kind of created her, and brought her to life, so they adopted her.

^ The players went out of their way to ensure said NPC was part of the party, received an equal share of loot, and was generally an effective party member for all purposes (including decision making). She kind of got possessed (an attempt on my part to shed a GMPC [this was only halfhearted - if the players really wanted her, I wasn't going to eliminate her without a decent chance of rescue; this was an abject failure, as now I have double the GMPC - and they're the same person with different alignments (-_-')], add some tension/drama/stakes to the AP story [success!], and/or foreshadow other elements they were going to face later [...? we'll see if it worked]), and they kind of exorcised the evil spirit - which was a necromantically partitioned evil side of the character turned into undead-like spiritual/mental replica of the character (with chaotic evil alignment) spirit - in a manner that I hadn't anticipated was possible. Thus creating the evil version of the GMPC.

^^ Actually, it occurs to me: if you worship Nocticula, it may well be possible to do exactly this. Perhaps she would allow you to perform a ritual to become a chaotic good incubus. Which is awesome.


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Tacticslion wrote:

...

First, you have to get something down that's very important.

Occasionally, you must (not "should", but absolutely, postively, with no "if"s "and"s or "but"s MUST) make decisions not because the character would, but instead because it's better for the game, group, and play. After making the decision, you then come up for a reason why it's chaotic evil and in-character.

To give an example:

The CE character is confronted with the option of betraying the party and gaining power, or not betraying the party and sharing their doom.

This sounds like every CE character's dream come true!

But you, as the player, not as the character, must decide to say "no".

Why would you say no?

It doesn't really matter - you can come up with your own reasons; however, here are some possibilities: ...

I like the way you said this. I need to point this out to a couple of people I know.


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Kydeem de'Morcaine wrote:
Tacticslion wrote:

...

First, you have to get something down that's very important.

Occasionally, you must (not "should", but absolutely, postively, with no "if"s "and"s or "but"s MUST) make decisions not because the character would, but instead because it's better for the game, group, and play. After making the decision, you then come up for a reason why it's chaotic evil and in-character.

To give an example:

The CE character is confronted with the option of betraying the party and gaining power, or not betraying the party and sharing their doom.

This sounds like every CE character's dream come true!

But you, as the player, not as the character, must decide to say "no".

Why would you say no?

It doesn't really matter - you can come up with your own reasons; however, here are some possibilities: ...

I like the way you said this. I need to point this out to a couple of people I know.

The best part is, this is true for any alignment you happen to play! :D


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OMG this Thread just went EPIC thank you guys so much :D


ok wow....

How exactly would i do that?

I think i could worship Nocticula. And somehow build Brothels in her name?lol?
i know there is a ritual for becoming half-fiend, but i am not sure if i could use that, because it involvs a lot of killing.

I would want to become a chaotic neutral Incubus? That just sounds awesome?


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darkkilltec wrote:

...

i know there is a ritual for becoming half-fiend, ...

I don't know that there is in PF. I believe there was in the dragon magazines for 3.5, but I don't remember seeing anything about it in PF since then.

darkkilltec wrote:
... I would want to become a chaotic neutral Incubus? That just sounds awesome?

As I said be very sure it is ok with your group before you put any effort into this. The alignments CN, CE, and NE seem to often be an excuse to just make life miserable for the other players and the GM. Or they are at least thought to be this. Even if you are not planning to be that way many will make the assumption you are.

It is much much easier to get a group to accept a LE member.

You can still be a teifling sorc. If your GM will work with you to become a 1/2demon, I would think he would be just as willing to work with you on becoming a 1/2 devil. Like maybe some sort of Erynies mashup would be good.

If you've already discussed CE evil with all of them (GM and players) and they're ok with it, we can help you build a pretty good sorc. I don't think we can help you with becoming a demon or devil. I think you will have to work that out with your GM.


EDIT: Ow! Walls of Text! Hold on... EDIT 2: Well, it's a bit better... let's try adding quote boxes... okay, yeah, that breaks it up and helps reading flow better. Okay, done.

darkkilltec wrote:
OMG this Thread just went EPIC thank you guys so much :D

Glad you like it!

darkkilltec wrote:

ok wow....

How exactly would i do that?

I think i could worship Nocticula. And somehow build Brothels in her name?lol?
i know there is a ritual for becoming half-fiend, but i am not sure if i could use that, because it involvs a lot of killing.

I would want to become a chaotic neutral Incubus? That just sounds awesome?

Tacticslion wrote:

<snip>

Of course, were it me as just a PC, I would probably go the CN route, and attempt to get my evil demon-power with that alignment instead (or maybe even CG)^^. But that's just me. :D
<clip>
^^ Actually, it occurs to me: if you worship Nocticula, it may well be possible to do exactly this. Perhaps she would allow you to perform a ritual to become a chaotic good incubus. Which is awesome.

This is what you're basing the question around, I presume.

The first was actually my way of just saying that, were it me, I'd attempt to communicate extensively with my GM to come up with a character concept, and then build toward that concept.

Thus if I'm trying to be a tiefling that taps into my evil powers, but I don't want to be evil, I'd play a CN tiefling sorcerer.

However, in the writing of that statement, it occurred to me that there may well be a manner within your original quest - that is to have a goal of ultimately becoming a demon or demon-like creature - that is not beyond the pale while maintaining a non-evil alignment.

Now, allow me to let you down right now: I said that as a GM, not as a rules-follower. As a GM, should one of my Players want to attempt this, I'd be all over it, working with them to attempt to figure things out, and follow through.

RAW (that is "Rules As Written")? There is no way, I'm afraid. Demons are eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil (which, really, makes sense). Thus bear that in mind as I say the following.

Spoiled for a shorter post, this is about Nocticula:
Nocticula is, as you may well know, a demon lord. She is the patron of assassins, darkness, and lust. What is not really known about her, is that she has some... unusual... worshipers, and, in fact, on rare occasion, grants great boons to those who would seem to be rather far afield of her normal followers - those who would seem to be highly inappropriate, even. In other words, she patronizes chaotic neutral (of course), true neutral, and chaotic good characters on rare occasion, in canon, if my sources are correct (and maybe characters of any alignment based on what one friend told me). There are even plenty of rumors flying about that she's looking for redemption - possibly even a way to become good. I haven't looked too deeply into this - I'm informed that there are probably spoilers for various APs that I'm not interested in spoilering myself on at this time.

Transformation ritual RAW:
The four rituals (really four steps in a meta-ritual) for becoming demons, as written, are as follows:

Quote:

The Transformation Ritual

The forbidden and blasphemous rituals of demonic transformation can be found only in the rarest of tomes (such as the Book of the Damned). A rare few demons, ranging from lowly quasits up to the mightiest balors, know these rituals and can teach them as well—they guard this knowledge closely, offering it only to those they deem deserving of the lore. One way to learn such a ritual from a demon is to use planar ally or planar binding to conjure the demon in question and offer it a payment in return for the secrets of the transformation ritual—this could even be a four-step process requiring a new conjuration for each step of the ritual. Not every demon knows this information, of course, so researching the name of a specific demon can add an additional level of research required before the process can begin. A character might even receive the methods by which to transform into a demon via a series of dreams or visions (typically granted to him from a demonic patron in reward for service), although this route is best left for NPCs that are strictly under the GM’s control.

First Ritual: The first ritual is the easiest, and requires nothing more than for the user’s alignment to become chaotic evil. By undertaking acts of a vile and destructive nature, the mortal consigns her soul to the Abyss even if she never finishes the second and third rituals. The mortal must select a demon lord (or a nascent demon lord or Balor Lord) at this point to serve as a demonic patron. The acts the user must undertake can vary, but should be of a nature that represents and “honors” the areas of interest of her chosen demonic patron—these acts are intended to attract the patron’s attention, after all. Even mortals who begin the transformation ritual as already chaotic evil must undergo this stage of the ritual, if only to select a demonic patron. In total, the first ritual must progress in this manner for a minimum of one year—at the end of the ritual, the mortal’s alignment changes to chaotic evil.

Second Ritual: The second ritual requires many more months of debased acts and vile plots, but at some point during this second year, the mortal must contact her chosen demonic patron, via either commune or contact other plane. A trusted minion or ally can cast this spell on the mortal’s behalf—it’s common for a spellcaster to gain a quasit familiar so that the quasit can use its commune spell-like ability for this purpose. Once contact is made, the demonic patron must be told of the mortal’s desire to become a demon—the commune or contact other plane spell cannot be used to ask any other questions. At some point thereafter, but before a year has passed, the mortal must offer a significant sacrifice to her demonic patron as a burnt offering in a temple consecrated to the demon lord. This offering can be either living or dead—in either case, the burnt offerings must be of someone that is related to the mortal by blood or family—an adopted parent or child is sufficient if, at some point the mortal and the offering once loved each other. The mortal must make a DC 20 Knowledge (religion) check to properly perform the burnt offering—if the sacrifice is or was once a worshiper of a lawful or good deity, the check drops to DC 10 (and thus becomes something that even one not trained in the Knowledge skill can attempt). If this check is successful, the second ritual ends and the mortal gains a demonic implant (typically demon senses or a demon talon) as proof of her demon’s favor.

Third Ritual: At some point after the mortal contacts her demon lord (typically after the second ritual succeeds, but sometimes before), the demon sends the mortal a vision of a task that must be completed (such as freeing a bound evil outsider from a Material Plane prison or assassinating a powerful cleric of a good religion). This task is typically one of significance to the demon lord, and in many cases one that the mortal has no hope of completing until she grows more powerful. There is no time limit for how long the mortal has to complete this task, but she must maintain her weekly devotions to her demon in the time that passes in the form of regular worship and continued atrocities in the demon’s name. Additional burnt offerings to the demon, betrayals of allies, and assaults on innocents are popular choices. Once the assigned task is completed, the mortal must perform another ritual in honor of her demonic lord—a sacrifice consisting of no less than a dozen nonevil intelligent creatures offered in the course of no more than a single week. The mortal must make a DC 30 Knowledge (religion) check at the end of the sacrifice, but gains a +1 bonus on the check for every 5 additional sacrifices offered beyond the initial dozen. If the check succeeds, the third ritual ends and the mortal permanently gains the half-fiend template.

Fourth Ritual: For many, gaining the half-fiend template is enough, but for those who wish to go even further, a fourth ritual exists. The mortal’s demon lord grants no vision or advice to begin this ritual—the mortal must take it upon herself to honor her demon lord in a manner appropriate to that demon lord’s interests and areas of concern. Once every year, on the anniversary of the day the mortal completed the third ritual, she must perform a special ceremony that recounts her accomplishments over the past year and culminates in a significant sacrifice (usually consisting of the sacrifice of an important member of an enemy faith, or of a lawful or good outsider; in either case, the sacrifice must be at least CR 9). The mortal then makes a DC 40 Knowledge (religion) check, with a cumulative +1 bonus for each previous such ritual she’s performed over the past several years. Success results in a final transformation into a full-fledged demon—the mortal loses all benefits of her previous race or the half-fiend template, but can immediately apply all of her class levels to her new demonic race (for example, a human fighter 10 could become a vrock fighter 10). The type of demon that the mortal transforms into depends on both the nature of her chosen demon lord and the GM’s discretion, but should generally not result in a total number of Hit Dice that more than doubles the mortal’s original Hit Dice.

Now, that pretty solidly negates any chance of being non-evil, much less any chance at being good!

However, were it me, as a GM, here's what I might do, altering each section as we go along.

Part 1 wrote:
Basics and first steps:
Quote:

The Transformation Ritual

The forbidden and blasphemous rituals of demonic transformation can be found only in the rarest of tomes (such as the Book of the Damned). A rare few demons, ranging from lowly quasits up to the mightiest balors, know these rituals and can teach them as well—they guard this knowledge closely, offering it only to those they deem deserving of the lore. One way to learn such a ritual from a demon is to use planar ally or planar binding to conjure the demon in question and offer it a payment in return for the secrets of the transformation ritual—this could even be a four-step process requiring a new conjuration for each step of the ritual. Not every demon knows this information, of course, so researching the name of a specific demon can add an additional level of research required before the process can begin. A character might even receive the methods by which to transform into a demon via a series of dreams or visions (typically granted to him from a demonic patron in reward for service), although this route is best left for NPCs that are strictly under the GM’s control.

This is actually pretty solid - Nocticula is not a good creature - she is chaotic evil, despite the fact that she may be looking to become good somewhere down the line. So requiring the (minor) evil act of summoning fiends isn't really a problem - it doesn't change your alignment in PFS anyway, so there's that.

Thus, so far, I have no problem with any of this.

Part 2, First Ritual wrote:
First Ritual:
Quote:
First Ritual: The first ritual is the easiest, and requires nothing more than for the user’s alignment to become chaotic evil. By undertaking acts of a vile and destructive nature, the mortal consigns her soul to the Abyss even if she never finishes the second and third rituals. The mortal must select a demon lord (or a nascent demon lord or Balor Lord) at this point to serve as a demonic patron. The acts the user must undertake can vary, but should be of a nature that represents and “honors” the areas of interest of her chosen demonic patron—these acts are intended to attract the patron’s attention, after all. Even mortals who begin the transformation ritual as already chaotic evil must undergo this stage of the ritual, if only to select a demonic patron. In total, the first ritual must progress in this manner for a minimum of one year—at the end of the ritual, the mortal’s alignment changes to chaotic evil.

So, since we're going for a non-evil version, let's presume Noc'll let you slip by with a big ol' CN (or even CG!) alignment on your sheet instead of CE.

So how do you deal with Assassins, Darkness, and Lust, while remaining Chaotic Neutral?

The last is actually the easiest - simply find any temple of Calistria. Chaotic Neutral Lust: done.

The Middle One isn't that difficult either. Simply begin taking and utilizing as much shadowy and darkness-kinds of effects to sow chaos in the midst of your foes, or find as many uses as you can for it. The more "epic" (figuratively speaking) the chaos sown with darkness (and the more other uses you find for darkness) the better, really.

Look, this... I'm going to be... careful... with my wording, here, but it's about explicit action in a game. Consider it rated M with no swear words or explicit content, but with enough implied to get the gist.:
To be clear, no the details weren't (and needn't) be spelled out below. Even glossed over, the following bit is rate

In a game that I ran, there was a true neutral cleric of Pharasma that was... hm... "on", let's say, rather heavily; there are many reasons for this, but I'll leave those out for the sake of brevity and lack of explicit content; suffice it to say that he was in a hurry, and really couldn't stay too long for story reasons - and he wouldn't see her again for quite some time.

Because he was going to miss a different character who was leaving town whom he loved and who loved him very much - with an unknown time before they saw each other again - he found her within a rather busy party club, found an out-of-the-way corner, and used an extended darkness and a scroll of zone of silence in a corner to allow the two of them privacy for an exceedingly intimate encounter.

Thus, although this had nothing to do with Nocticula, it's a perfect kind of thing to utilize to gain her attention for your character.

So there are many uses for darkness. The last being...

Assassination, which is a tough nut to crack without dipping into Evil territory. Be aware, that no matter what, this one will cause division. Many will never countenance Assassination as anything other than evil (which, honestly, makes sense), but I will attempt to portray it in a light (and under certain circumstances) in which you can, as a character, engage in said activities without dipping into evil, from certain viewpoints. Before engaging in this type of activity - really in any of them - check with your GM so that you, as a player, know in advance what you're getting into alignment-wise, even if your character does not.

How to have a non-evil Assassin in a few easy or difficult steps:
Obviously, if you have a method for assassinating evil villains you're party is facing (or simply mooks, guards, whatever), go for it. Their deaths are going to happen anyway, and you're simply doing this (while praying to Nocticula, of course, and silently offering this death as an act of worship/offering and while doing the right thing) in a more subtle way than the normal party would handle it. Paladins might not approve; others are probably okay. You're a sorcerer, so research decent assassin-type spells: phantasmal killer, touch of death, that sort of thing. Heck, something like a sleep spell and then using a coup de grace attack works very well here, too.

Outside of the main adventure plot? Well... that gets much, much stickier.

The first thing to do when your a non-evil Assassin is to have a reason - a method and purpose to the act, rather than just killing for its own sake.

I once had a CG fetchling ninja who acted as an Assassin. Although he accepted money (it's one way he made a living) and Contracts, he didn't kill for money. Instead, he killed (assassinated) in order to end oppression - to act where the law failed the poor and the helpless.

Instead, he would research a potential target extensively. He read anything written about or by them; shadowed and followed them; sold them alchemical goods, herbs, and medicines; subtly interviewed anyone who knew them; and subtly dug up all of their secrets and dark history. During this time, he typically posed as a human herbal medicine merchant, emphasizing Tien heritage for exotic goods.

If they were worthy of death, he would - by virtue of having gained all sorts of knowledge about them in the course of gaining evidence - effectively have everything he needed to plan a swift, clean strike against his Contract - which is exactly what he did. He made substantial use of Sleeping Poison to down guards and others who might otherwise have gotten in the way without killing them, hit his target (and only his target) and left. (He also maximized his bluff and diplomacy to talk his way out of problems.)

At the same time, he would also research the person who hired him for the Contract. If they were worthy of being a Contract, and the first target was not, he would switch his Contract to them instead. If both were worthy of being a Contract, he might carefully put feelers out to see if anyone was hiring for a Contract on the one who first hired him (getting paid twice is great). However, he wouldn't actually wait for such opportunities - if it was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to him that anyone was getting away with excessively cruel oppression and murder, he would act - as soon as he could do so effectively - against them with the full weight of his abilities. If he could only hit one of them, he would choose the one that did not hire him, and leave plenty of evidence at the scene of the Assassination to prove that those who'd hired him had hired an assassin.

(He also would strike if he noticed anyone attempting to kill another inappropriately, though, unless he knew the situation, he would not kill, if possible.)

All of this, of course, was a fine line to walk, but my GM and I agreed that he had the right reasons at heart (he acted, even without money, but he used money as a method of supplementing his income while eliminating genuine evil - unlike Adventurers who killed something and stole its stuff) and he acted out of genuine kindness and benevolence. Thus he maintained his alignment.

Thus, there are the three portfolio elements covered. Also, I hear-tell, you may wish to make lots of nice succubus-themed things that are (secretly or not) devoted to her. That might help.

So that's how I'd handle the first and attempt to cover all of Nocticula's bases without slipping into evil. That is actually a sure-fire way to get her attention, if the hints I've picked up are any indication.

Part 3, Second Ritual wrote:
The second ritual:
Quote:
Second Ritual: The second ritual requires many more months of debased acts and vile plots, but at some point during this second year, the mortal must contact her chosen demonic patron, via either commune or contact other plane. A trusted minion or ally can cast this spell on the mortal’s behalf—it’s common for a spellcaster to gain a quasit familiar so that the quasit can use its commune spell-like ability for this purpose. Once contact is made, the demonic patron must be told of the mortal’s desire to become a demon—the commune or contact other plane spell cannot be used to ask any other questions. At some point thereafter, but before a year has passed, the mortal must offer a significant sacrifice to her demonic patron as a burnt offering in a temple consecrated to the demon lord. This offering can be either living or dead—in either case, the burnt offerings must be of someone that is related to the mortal by blood or family—an adopted parent or child is sufficient if, at some point the mortal and the offering once loved each other. The mortal must make a DC 20 Knowledge (religion) check to properly perform the burnt offering—if the sacrifice is or was once a worshiper of a lawful or good deity, the check drops to DC 10 (and thus becomes something that even one not trained in the Knowledge skill can attempt). If this check is successful, the second ritual ends and the mortal gains a demonic implant (typically demon senses or a demon talon) as proof of her demon’s favor.

You're a demon-blooded tiefling. Finding something evil that must be stopped that is related to you to sacrifice isn't that hard with your family history.

Divination is your friend, here.

Since demons typically have fire resistance, if you can get a cleric friend to help you with a half-fire/half-divine power, that should work quite well.

Nocticula is all about killing demon lords, so killing demons is actually quite okay in her book. If you have evil family in your backstory that seek vile power and taught you to do so, hey, instant villain you can go thwart and sacrifice. If your parents are dead and buried, hey instant bodily sacrifice (if rather morbid, this isn't, strictly speaking, evil).

Notice that nothing happens to the soul - this is just a ritual bodily sacrifice.

If you have no real blood relatives, you can also get around this one fairly well. Take a relatively weak, young demon (newly spawned is ideal) or qlippoth or something. Load up all sorts of enchantments on it - charm monster, suggestion ("love me"), hypnotism ("love me"), and so on. Legally adopt it (probably with a few more enchantments; maybe with an illusion or transmutation to make it look like not-a-fiend) quickly. End its evil existence after the enchantments run out and it hates you.

(This last is probably the darkest version possible without going straight all-out full-fledged evil.)

So... fairly easy. Next?

Part 4, Third Ritual wrote:
Third Ritual:
Quote:
Third Ritual: At some point after the mortal contacts her demon lord (typically after the second ritual succeeds, but sometimes before), the demon sends the mortal a vision of a task that must be completed (such as freeing a bound evil outsider from a Material Plane prison or assassinating a powerful cleric of a good religion). This task is typically one of significance to the demon lord, and in many cases one that the mortal has no hope of completing until she grows more powerful. There is no time limit for how long the mortal has to complete this task, but she must maintain her weekly devotions to her demon in the time that passes in the form of regular worship and continued atrocities in the demon’s name. Additional burnt offerings to the demon, betrayals of allies, and assaults on innocents are popular choices. Once the assigned task is completed, the mortal must perform another ritual in honor of her demonic lord—a sacrifice consisting of no less than a dozen nonevil intelligent creatures offered in the course of no more than a single week. The mortal must make a DC 30 Knowledge (religion) check at the end of the sacrifice, but gains a +1 bonus on the check for every 5 additional sacrifices offered beyond the initial dozen. If the check succeeds, the third ritual ends and the mortal permanently gains the half-fiend template.

This one sounds terribly difficult... but it's not. It just requires working with your GM. Nocticula isn't a fool - she knows her worshipers, and knows how to best utilize them. She's not going to send a paladin-friend to burn down an orphanage. But she might send a paladin-friend to assassinate the nearby leader of a good church... the corrupt leader of the good church... especially if it's the paladin's church. This benefits her politically (she gets to "help the good guys"), while also serving to shake the paladin's faith - get in the good graces of the good gods while messing with a paladin's head! Win/win for a demon lord!

Work this out with your GM - you don't need to know the specifics, but toss your GM some ideas to work with you. If the GM sets you up on a seemingly horridly evil quest, do research and divination to see if it can be completed in a non-evil manner. Nocticula in particular feels likely to pull something like that.

And the sacrifices?

The ritual must be completed within a week of itself, but not a week of completing the task.

The non-evil part is the sticky-wicket... but it can certainly be done, and possibly without even trying too hard.

If you have lots of non-evil enemies (like a barbarian horde) that are planning on, say, raiding and pillaging, and aren't up for negotiation (because, you know, barbarians) you're going to have a lot of dead things very quickly. There's not really going to be much of a way around it.

You then gather the bodies, repeat the burning ritual above to taste, and you've finished this one.

That said, I suspect that Nocticula may be one to reward a special kind of cleverness.

Thus, if you have a dead creature (especially noteworthy for being a dead evil creature), that corpse is now an object. A use of an animate object spell (or similar) would then turn it into a creature... a creature entirely devoted to your every whim.

Even better - you don't need to have any dead folk in the first place:
Step 1) Chop down a tree
Step 2) Chop up the tree into 87 pieces.
Step 3) Animate those 87 or 125 pieces into neutral creatures.
Step 4) Sacrifice those 87 animated objects (defined as "creature" to Nocticua

Now, that lacks the "intelligent" part of the requirements, I'll grant you. One possible way around this (again, sticking it to the rules - something that chaotic creatures may well be fond of) is to cast Fox's Cunning on the animated object. It does not gain the benefit, but the spell is still active, granting a +4 enhancement bonus to INT, thus making it, by technicality (if not actually) "intelligent".

A final option to get around everything is to take a large number of aggressive, diseased, and/or cursed animals that are marked for death (specifically, 87 of them, or 125 of them to gain a +15 bonus or +25 bonus to your knowledge (religion) check). These fall under the definition of Intelligent (note that the sacrifice doesn't say "sentient", just "intelligent"), and they are, by nature, non-evil. Kill them (as was going to happen anyway), then sacrifice.

(Rats and House Centipedes - at 1 copper each - are a real bargain, here. The best part is that you're actively improving the local environment by trapping and killing these creatures, increasing sanitation, and, by default, making the lives of those around better. Nocticula politics for the win!)

This one actually is quite easy if you take my last suggestion - in fact, the last suggestion is probably the best, most sure-fire way to get through all of the requirements with no issues at all, thus that should probably have been my primary recommendation. Ah well.

Part 5, Fourth Ritual wrote:
Fourth Ritual:
Quote:
Fourth Ritual: For many, gaining the half-fiend template is enough, but for those who wish to go even further, a fourth ritual exists. The mortal’s demon lord grants no vision or advice to begin this ritual—the mortal must take it upon herself to honor her demon lord in a manner appropriate to that demon lord’s interests and areas of concern. Once every year, on the anniversary of the day the mortal completed the third ritual, she must perform a special ceremony that recounts her accomplishments over the past year and culminates in a significant sacrifice (usually consisting of the sacrifice of an important member of an enemy faith, or of a lawful or good outsider; in either case, the sacrifice must be at least CR 9). The mortal then makes a DC 40 Knowledge (religion) check, with a cumulative +1 bonus for each previous such ritual she’s performed over the past several years. Success results in a final transformation into a full-fledged demon—the mortal loses all benefits of her previous race or the half-fiend template, but can immediately apply all of her class levels to her new demonic race (for example, a human fighter 10 could become a vrock fighter 10). The type of demon that the mortal transforms into depends on both the nature of her chosen demon lord and the GM’s discretion, but should generally not result in a total number of Hit Dice that more than doubles the mortal’s original Hit Dice.

So... this one is easy. Like, super easy.

Find CR 9 devotees of Lamashtu. Heck, conjure and bind CR 9 servants of lamashtu from other planes. Then sacrifice them in an act of assassination in darkness.

Repeat until you auto-succeed at the Knowledge (religion) effect. (Also, with the Leadership feat, use followers to Aid Another on your Knowledge (religion) check - all of your followers - this can be used in earlier attempts at high Knowledge (religion) checks as well).

And... that's really how I'd handle it.

EDIT: Do bear in mind, however, as I said above, that's me as a GM. If you're looking for a hardline RAW "here's how you become a non-evil demon", considering the requirements of the first ritual is you becoming evil, the requirements of gaining the half-fiend template is that you're an evil creature, and the innate nature of being a demon is an evil creature, you're kind of up the creek without a paddle... sort of.

After you accomplish the rituals, there's always the possibility of taking repeated uses of the atonement spell in between becoming evil. Note that, in that case, if your alignment is magically changed due to becoming an incubus (an argument I could see some GMs using) you could then reverse it to whatever it was before becoming an incubus - this isn't the redemption/temptation line of an inherently aligned outsider, this is reversing magical alignment change on a creature that happens to be an "inherently aligned" outsider.

Also, "inherently aligned" is misleading. I know of at least two, possibly three "inherently aligned" outsiders that no longer retain their original "inherent" alignment in various published works off the top of my head (though, for spoiler sake, I'll not link them at present).

Thus it's very possible to be a demon with demon traits and demon abilities and not be evil.

So... enjoy!

BUT TALK TO YOUR GM.

Do not presume any of the above is RAW or hard-line rules. It's my take on how I'd do it.

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