How should I run the whip / scopion whip?

[Mathius]

I know this is a real mess in the rules forum but I do not actually care about what the rules say.

I can see no way for second hand a whip to do any good. I would like to run it as light weapon. Can any one see a way this can be abused?

If I treat a scorpion whip as whip in all ways except the non-lethal trait and its effects on armored opponents does this allow abuse some how?

If a whip could damage all foes and not just those with out armor would this be open to abuse?

The main reason for all of this is that I have player that wants to make a whip magus.

These changes would allow whip to be used from 1st level on reasonable but they would still have to wait on whip master until 5th level unless the are human or half elf. They can do get it at 3rd.

The not provoking seams rather a big deal but I guess that some one can always use a whip at range and a sword up close but they are paying feat to pick up a low damage weapon.

[Wolf Munroe]

The description for scorpion whip in Ultimate Equipment says "If you are proficient with whips, you can use a scorpion whip as a whip."

So one interpretation is to allow it to function as a whip for all effects, including weapon finesse and reach, if the character is whip-proficient, except it still gets the benefits of being a scorpion whip.

I think that would allow it to do what you want it to do.

Not sure if it's abusable though, my player using it isn't abusive so I can't say what's possible.

[Zhayne]

I'd just call them the same freakin' thing and call it a day.

[Scythia]

Zhayne wrote:

I'd just call them the same freakin' thing and call it a day.

This, exactly.

If it says it can be used as a whip, it's a whip.

[Mathius]

I tend to agree with you but I have group of powergamers that are fun to game with. I powergame the monster as well so all is fair.

I don't that 15 foot natural reach at the cost of AoO and very low damage dice at 1 level is a big deal. I realize that a this helps the magus most of all since he can then use touch spells at 15 feet. This does cost a feat and the damage dice is low and that actually means something at low level.

[Zhayne]

If you're spending a feat for it, it should be better than a simple or martial weapon. I hate the fact that most 'exotic' weapons aren't any better than a simple or martial, but you have to waste a feat on it because it's 'unusual'.

[TGMaxMaxer]

For a Magus, the low crit range is actually the most limiting factor. Most Magus damage is dependent on spell crits.

A feat for 15ft reach 19-20x2 (with keen magus add) vs a non-reach 15-20x2 no feat weapon is fair.

I actually had the idea for a Kensai Bladebound Scorpion whip magus focusing on the Poolstrike arcana chain... Massive dex and Int hitting 4-6 enemies with Arcing Pool Strikes while flying. Not really broken, but fun and different.

[EvilPaladin]

Very carefully.

[Mathius]

Had not even though about crit range. Yeah he can have it.

[Mathius]

I an not going to stop him from doing it but the whip does not seam worth while unless you are all about combat maneuvers. While a magus can do them with the help of an arcana, the number feats needed to be good with a whip and with combat maneuvers seams like it will leave nothing left over for spell casting.

I know that a 5th level magus could add 4d6+2 to his weapon for 5 AP but that is most of it for the day. Power attack/pirana strike help as does an agile weapon.

All in all it just does not seam to work all that well.

Kensai helps with feats but the loss of casting would really hurt.

Does any one think that it would be worth it?

[Imbicatus]

It's worth it to spellstrike at 15' range. It's basically a free reach spell metamagic on every touch spell in exchange for terrible damage and crit range from the weapon.

It can be devastating when combined with enforcer, rime spell, and frostbite.

[Mathius]

Magical linage frostbite would allow this with a first level spell

SF SS enforcer and rime would be 5th level at the earliest but would allow 7 nice attacks. At that level 7 attacks might be an entire combat.

This spell actually does more damage then shocking grasp but acts over time.

Still not sure if this tactic is better with a whip instead of a rapier.