Counter-Banditry Mechanics


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I think it would be really cool if it was possible to run caravans that didn't actually have anything of value in them that could be stolen, but which looked like valuable merchandise to Bandits using a Blind.

Keeping in mind Ryan's warning that "X" would be Cool ... becomes Nobody does "X", I think the key to ensuring this particular cool thing doesn't fall into that trap is to impose a significant cost to creating these False Cargoes. It would seem appropriate to me to allow the creator of the False Cargo to make it appear to contain specific items available in the Local Market, and to require a non-recoverable cost at some proportion of those items - perhaps even at their full value.

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:

I think it would be really cool if it was possible to run caravans that didn't actually have anything of value in them that could be stolen, but which looked like valuable merchandise to Bandits using a Blind.

Keeping in mind Ryan's warning that "X" would be Cool ... becomes Nobody does "X", I think the key to ensuring this particular cool thing doesn't fall into that trap is to impose a significant cost to creating these False Cargoes. It would seem appropriate to me to allow the creator of the False Cargo to make it appear to contain specific items available in the Local Market, and to require a non-recoverable cost at some proportion of those items - perhaps even at their full value.

Can you detail a situation/reason that I might go to that expense? The cost to create the sham being the same as the items portrayed, is where you lose me...

Goblin Squad Member

The ability to have an in-game version of the climax to The Thomas Crown Affair?

Goblin Squad Member

This would be an *excellent* example of an Illusion school spell. I expect that settlements and kingdoms will use this technique, if it's available, to try to divert attacks away from their actual supply runs.

@Nihimon, I think that the opposite of what you mentioned would actually be what would prevent people from not using it. Making this easier to do would mean more people would have access to this and would take advantage of the ability. If it becomes too expensive, that's when people won't use it.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

My only concern with "full face value" is that is requires that the face value be known to the game systems in a firm manner. The easy ways of doing that can be cheated, and the effective ways require more development time.

Put the idea in the crowdforging file. It will have to be prioritized later.

Goblin Squad Member

It is also my hope that the caravan system has multiple layers of both bandit measures, and merchant countermeasures. I'm hopeful that this would then lead to true smuggling.

I would imaging that both skills and perception rolls will be a main factor, and then there are the much awaited Hideout mechanics.

Both Caravan and Bandit skills might very well be tied to faction rank as well, again, I hope they will be. This would further encourage not just the conflict, but the player's continued dedication to their faction.

As for the question of "wouldn't it be cool if x, but nobody does x", that could also become a trap for the developers.

Goblin Squad Member

Pax Bringslite wrote:
The cost to create the sham being the same as the items portrayed, is where you lose me...

The cost is there to ensure the ability isn't over-used. There's a huge difference in me sinking 10,000 Coin into an elaborate False Cargo and me losing 10,000 Coin worth of items to Bandits who then have most of it for themselves.

Goblin Squad Member

Uthreth Baelcoressitas wrote:
@Nihimon, I think that the opposite of what you mentioned would actually be what would prevent people from not using it. Making this easier to do would mean more people would have access to this and would take advantage of the ability. If it becomes too expensive, that's when people won't use it.

If it is easy to use, it will have a negative impact on overall Banditry. I really don't want that. I just want to have a fun impact on [i]some[/b] Banditry :)

Goblin Squad Member

DeciusBrutus wrote:
My only concern with "full face value" is that is requires that the face value be known to the game systems in a firm manner.

That's why I suggested that the only items available for the False Cargo would be the items currently available on the Local Market. Perhaps it would be reasonable to require that they had been available on the Local Market for long enough that it would be foolish to list something at a ridiculously low value in order to cheat the system.

Goblin Squad Member

Instead of false cargo, which I would assume still has some value, what about hidden cargo holds?

Better yet, you could even have both!

Of course if the caravan is a feud, faction or war target, none of this will really matter. The bandits / raider / enemy will likely just kill the caravan driver and take whatever they get their hands on, real or fake.

Goblin Squad Member

Bluddwolf wrote:
Better yet, you could even have both!

I would prefer both :)

I think the system of False Cargo enables the types of operations that are common in fantasy novels, and I'd like to think I've proposed a reasonable cost that would keep it from becoming unduly burdensome on Bandits.

From my vantage, I'd like to see some proportionality in the system such that the incidence of Caravan Banditry relative to the overall incidence of Caravans is in rough agreement with the incidence of Bandit / Bandit Hunter Conflicts relative to the overall incidence of Banditry.

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:
Bluddwolf wrote:
Better yet, you could even have both!

I would prefer both :)

I think the system of False Cargo enables the types of operations that are common in fantasy novels, and I'd like to think I've proposed a reasonable cost that would keep it from becoming unduly burdensome on Bandits.

From my vantage, I'd like to see some proportionality in the system such that the incidence of Caravan Banditry relative to the overall incidence of Caravans is in rough agreement with the incidence of Bandit / Bandit Hunter Conflicts relative to the overall incidence of Banditry.

It is also important to note that Bandit Hunters (PCs) do have an added and free advantage of having both NPC Wardens (if in settlement hex, or along King's Road) and the fact that the bandit will be criminal flagged if using a SAD or attack against an unsanctioned target.

These two, along with the Bandit Hunter / Caravan Guards, will create a selectivity on the part of bandits which I believe will also be a limiting factor.

Bandits who run around willie nilly attacking every caravan (sanctioned or unsanctioned)they see, will not be very successful or not very successful for long.

Goblin Squad Member

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Nihimon wanders off into the archives to see if he can find record of another 7-post, uninterrupted exchange with Bluddwolf where neither of them said anything nasty to the other.

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:
Pax Bringslite wrote:
The cost to create the sham being the same as the items portrayed, is where you lose me...
The cost is there to ensure the ability isn't over-used. There's a huge difference in me sinking 10,000 Coin into an elaborate False Cargo and me losing 10,000 Coin worth of items to Bandits who then have most of it for themselves.

That is way, way too expensive. You'd be willing to spend a sizable hunk of change just to go "ha ha! fooled you!" That's barely above flushing money down the toilet in my eyes.

Goblin Squad Member

I must have missed a lot on the bandit thing. How is someone able to tell how much and what you are carrying in your caravan in the first place and why can't you just 'fake it' instead of doing all this? What is this Blind you speak of?

Goblin Squad Member

Ravenlute wrote:
I must have missed a lot on the bandit thing. How is someone able to tell how much and what you are carrying in your caravan in the first place and why can't you just 'fake it' instead of doing all this? What is this Blind you speak of?

I think they are requesting yet another in-game mechanic. Maybe don't pay it any attention until if it is implemented.

Goblin Squad Member

The Blind (an idea):

Stephen Cheney wrote:

Blinds

Given how our placement of structures changed from Ryan's original conception of hideouts, we've broken the "knocking people out of fast travel" functionality into its own structure. These are meant to be extremely temporary (basically the idea of just a hole or pile of bushes and a log you roll across the road), rather than formal hideouts. If hideouts interdicted fast travel over a whole hex, it seems likely that people would make it a priority to find the hideout PoI and destroy it. Blinds also let bandits potentially interdict fast travel in hexes they don't own.

•Blinds are a temporary construction you put down (construction method TBD and highly tech dependent). They're some kind of object that's not glaringly obvious. The users will need to be able to click it, but it might have its own Stealth rating so it's not visible until you're on top of it. TBD how you place it or craft it.

•It has a small radius where you get a Stealth bonus as if it were an aura. Being in this aura is basically admitting to being up to no good; if someone in your party issues a S&D from it, you'll also automatically join in (see below).

•Clicking it lets you turn off or on an aura that knocks people out of fast travel. This aura is basically big enough that you can put the blind near a road and catch people on the road. You can turn it on or off so you can let scarier groups through without stopping them. (Hopefully we can spawn a log model across the road when you've got it turned on.)

•It has a large radius around it that increases the range of S&D inspection. Normally, you can only inspect a target prior to issuing S&D from a short distance away, but if they're in the blind's radius, you can do it up to visual range (and you might have a lookout up the road that passes the details to you to decide whether to roll out the log or not).

•Settlements can make it illegal to deploy a Blind in their territory (potentially getting at least one Bandit the Criminal flag long before S&Ding anyone).

For the record, I am not opposed to such a mechanic as Nihimon proposes. I am certain that I would need a pretty good reason to use it, is all. My time is preferred spent in profitable endeavor, but I begrudge no one the chance to screw with bandits. :)

Goblin Squad Member

That's interesting. It's been a long time since I read any of the S&D stuff. I didn't remember the inspection aspect of it. (Why can you inspect anyway? Seems odd that a bandit would be able to tell what a caravan is carrying without stopping it first.) I'm sure there are wonderful overly long threads about all this. Mind throwing some links my way?

Goblin Squad Member

Well ok since it is not against The Law (not bad for me), but I must warn you the tread is Taboo and may harm a Barbar's soul....

Look above that post for more. Hmmm....possibly below too.

Goblin Squad Member

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Pax Bringslite wrote:
My time is preferred spent in profitable endeavor, I begrudge no one the chance to screw bandits. :)

Ahh... So you plan on running a brothel! That would indeed be a welcomed and brilliant enterprise on your part. You may in fact end up with much of my gold. ;-)

Callistria be praised!

Goblin Squad Member

Well played, sir. Well played. ;)

Goblin Squad Member

Bluddwolf wrote:
Pax Bringslite wrote:
My time is preferred spent in profitable endeavor, I begrudge no one the chance to screw bandits. :)

Ahh... So you plan on running a brothel! That would indeed be a welcomed and brilliant enterprise on your part. You may in fact end up with much of my gold. ;-)

Callistria be praised!

Errr... an unfortunately misleading verb Sir! Uhm, uh...

Lawbreakers!


I think we should be able to put a tracking unit on our goods so we can go and get it back from the bandits when it's stolen.

Goblin Squad Member

Broken_Sextant wrote:
Nihimon wrote:
Pax Bringslite wrote:
The cost to create the sham being the same as the items portrayed, is where you lose me...
The cost is there to ensure the ability isn't over-used. There's a huge difference in me sinking 10,000 Coin into an elaborate False Cargo and me losing 10,000 Coin worth of items to Bandits who then have most of it for themselves.
That is way, way too expensive. You'd be willing to spend a sizable hunk of change just to go "ha ha! fooled you!" That's barely above flushing money down the toilet in my eyes.

That was just an example. What I actually suggested was:

Nihimon wrote:
... to require a non-recoverable cost at some proportion of those items - perhaps even at their full value.

I don't really know what proportion would be appropriate, and would trust the designers to make it reasonable.

Goblin Squad Member

Hycoo wrote:
I think we should be able to put a tracking unit on our goods so we can go and get it back from the bandits when it's stolen.

Locate Object would be nice...

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:
Hycoo wrote:
I think we should be able to put a tracking unit on our goods so we can go and get it back from the bandits when it's stolen.
Locate Object would be nice...

That would work with a well known item, as the description says, but not something that an MMO / Game could actually do.

Goblin Squad Member

Bluddwolf wrote:
... not something that an MMO / Game could actually do.

Actually, ArcticMUD had that exact spell, and it worked just like you'd expect it to. Sure, it might not be available in PFO, but that won't be because it's an especially difficult problem to solve.

Goblin Squad Member

Bluddwolf wrote:
Nihimon wrote:
Hycoo wrote:
I think we should be able to put a tracking unit on our goods so we can go and get it back from the bandits when it's stolen.
Locate Object would be nice...
That would work with a well known item, as the description says, but not something that an MMO / Game could actually do.

A "well-known or clearly visualized object". I don't see that there's any technical reason why it couldn't be done, it's mostly a user interface problem of selecting an object that's no longer in your inventory. I suppose it could be handled by pre-designating a target before you lose it, but that rather limits its usefulness (though it would be adequate for Nihimon's purpose).

Of course, easily defeated by simply destroying the object. Bandits, I expect, will mostly be interested in fungible, non-traceable goods.

Goblin Squad Member

An encyclopedia item list, while not for use in an Auction House in this game, could still be used to see craftable items or for use of this spell.

Goblin Squad Member

Ravenlute wrote:
An encyclopedia item list, while not for use in an Auction House in this game, could still be used to see craftable items or for use of this spell.

But for Nihimon's purpose, you wouldn't want just *any* "Golden Backscratcher of Dorsal Soothing", you'd want the specific one that was in your possession 3 hours ago. The list would be sufficient for the "search for general items" use of the spell, though.

Goblin Squad Member

Tuoweit wrote:
A "well-known or clearly visualized object". I don't see that there's any technical reason why it couldn't be done, it's mostly a user interface problem of selecting an object that's no longer in your inventory. I suppose it could be handled by pre-designating a target before you lose it, but that rather limits its usefulness (though it would be adequate for Nihimon's purpose).

It would be simple - if potentially somewhat expensive in terms of server resources - to simply query the hex for a named item and return the current coordinates of the first instance. Searching for a specific instance of a named item would require that the item be tagged with a GUID which could then be queried.

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:
Tuoweit wrote:
A "well-known or clearly visualized object". I don't see that there's any technical reason why it couldn't be done, it's mostly a user interface problem of selecting an object that's no longer in your inventory. I suppose it could be handled by pre-designating a target before you lose it, but that rather limits its usefulness (though it would be adequate for Nihimon's purpose).
It would be simple - if potentially somewhat expensive in terms of server resources - to simply query the hex for a named item and return the current coordinates of the first instance. Searching for a specific instance of a named item would require that the item be tagged with a GUID which could then be queried.

If the item had already been placed on the market, or changed hands several times, or had been refined and converted to its raw materials, then what?

Items can also be dropped and destroyed, if the present "owner" had a suspicion that the item was being tracked. Then there is the counter spell or skill to be considered. There should be some means of "un tagging" an item or interfering with the pursuiter's ability to track the item.

Then there is the question: With threading, what is the chance you have a valuable item and you don't thread it?

Goblin Squad Member

Bluddwolf wrote:

If the item had already been placed on the market, or changed hands several times, or had been refined and converted to its raw materials, then what?

Items can also be dropped and destroyed, if the present "owner" had a suspicion that the item was being tracked. Then there is the counter spell or skill to be considered. There should be some means of "un tagging" an item or interfering with the pursuiter's ability to track the item.

If the item exists, it can be queried. If it doesn't, it can't. No need to make a lot of special cases for it.

Bluddwolf wrote:
Then there is the question: With threading, what is the chance you have a valuable item and you don't thread it?

Personally, I expect to often have valuable items on me that I can't thread because all my threads are being used for other purposes. It is my fervent hope that I will be able to afford to do so consistently.

Goblin Squad Member

Bluddwolf wrote:

If the item had already been placed on the market, or changed hands several times, or had been refined and converted to its raw materials, then what?

Items can also be dropped and destroyed, if the present "owner" had a suspicion that the item was being tracked. Then there is the counter spell or skill to be considered. There should be some means of "un tagging" an item or interfering with the pursuiter's ability to track the item.

Then there is the question: With threading, what is the chance you have a valuable item and you don't thread it?

Placing an item on the market may or may not change anything, depending on the implementation. EVE, for example, requires you to "repackage" an object before listing it on the market, which effectively removes any uniqueness to it and makes it fungible with others of the same type.

Refining it is equivalent to destroying it.

As for specific counters, per the description of the spell, it "is blocked by even a thin sheet of lead [...] and nondetection [will] fool it."

Goblin Squad Member

Bluddwolf wrote:

If the item had already been placed on the market, or changed hands several times, ... , then what?

Items can also be dropped and destroyed, if the present "owner" had a suspicion that the item was being tracked.

... With threading, what is the chance you have a valuable item and you don't thread it?

What about false cargo holds

Then the bandit the individual is after doesn't have it. Getting the item back may no longer be possible, but revenge might still be possible if the sought after bandit is close and can be found with just looking around.

Then the bandit did not gain material benefit. Having a bandit possibly think they completely wasted time is Counter-Banditry.

In all scenarios possible by the description of "loss of item(s)" inherent to this thread; 100%. All items have value.

That would play on the "inspection" portion of bandits determining if they wish to attack said wagon. Instead of the inspecting bandit getting "4 chests and large pile of carrots", it only reveals "large pile of carrots". Other descriptive terms of the inspection (heavy laden, etc ...) would be unchanged.

Nihimon wrote:
... false cargo ...

I don't know what the costs are in running a caravan, the developers might not even know yet, but teamster, best of burden, wagon, crates, and ballast to place in the crates should be considerable without placing any additional cost for the bait.

Goblin Squad Member

Tuoweit wrote:
...blocked by even a thin sheet of lead...

Anyone besides me envision an assassin sitting on the other side of a wall from his target, casting over and over to fulfil his contract via radiation poisoning?

Goblin Squad Member

Any reason a false cargo would not operate the same way assassin disguise works? You take a real item and turn it into something that suits your purposes.

Part of what I am wondering is how would bandits even know what you have? What difference would it make if you simply sent an empty cart or cart full of garbage?

Goblin Squad Member

I would assume moving cargo in high volumes will require a cart, mule, or wagon. If the burden of that vehicle is visually displayed then I really doubt there will be a different visual for each possible cargo type. Rather it will likely just show more containers.

If you can't heap on empty containers high volumes of a low value commodity would do the trick.

The question is can the bandit capture the cart/wagon/mule? Will those have much value in themselves?

Goblin Squad Member

Andius wrote:

I would assume moving cargo in high volumes will require a cart, mule, or wagon. If the burden of that vehicle is visually displayed then I really doubt there will be a different visual for each possible cargo type. Rather it will likely just show more containers.

If you can't heap on empty containers high volumes of a low value commodity would do the trick.

The question is can the bandit capture the cart/wagon/mule? Will those have much value in themselves?

I'm hopeful that the carts, wagons or pack animals are a part of the "loot table".

That is unless GW has designed it so, we go in and loot what we can carry, leaving what we could not for scavengers or for decay / destruction. Unless of course, we bring our own means of transporting bulky goods.

I'm all for having to designate a few in my troupe of bandits to be haulers, and we should all have whatever necessary skills to actually operate a caravan ourselves.


From an economical point of view i would suspect these carts has to be destroyed by the bandits to gain access to the loot inside, which then will be up for grabs for anyone (maybe with a % of loot destroyed aswell) The bandits has the choice of bringing a cart themselves or take what they can carry.

If this is not the case then i think we will all be swimming in carts after a while. Having carts being a mediocre resource dump sounds fine to me.

Also gonna be interesting to see how they do these caravans. Will there be designated drivers? Can you stop and leave it on the ground to fight? Any disadvantages/advantages for the whole group for running a caravan? Can you put a trap on the cart? Will there be feats for this? I guess they dont quite know themselves yet, as it probably will be a while till we see it. Still a really interesting topic.

Goblin Squad Member

Darcnes wrote:
Part of what I am wondering is how would bandits even know what you have?
Advancing a hideout can.. allow the hideout's occupants to determine the nature of passing characters and their gear before triggering an ambush.
Inspecting a target for S&D generates a list of the target's carried and non-threaded items.

It would seem that giving Bandits some idea of what their marks are carrying has been a consistent theme. I expect that whatever finally gets implemented will have this same general characteristic.

Goblin Squad Member

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@Bringslite, I see blinds as a necessary settlement defense mechanism from the very start of EE.

  • It is my belief that very early in EE there will be efforts to take/destroy initial Land Rush settlements before they can be functionally fortified, and before the introduction of siege engines and unit combat.
  • So far I do not have any indication (if I remember correctly) that Land Rush settlements will be provided with walls.
  • I believe that some settlement buildings may be destroyed by groups of characters without siege engines.
  • I suspect that settlement hexes, when the settlement is initiated, will have considerable empty space, making the placement of blinds possible.
  • Blinds will be very useful in defending outposts and some PoIs which can be destroyed by characters without siege engines.

Alright, true believers. I'm going to go ahead and bury this on page 15 (maybe 16 by the time I post) so the most invested of you will see it for criticism initially. It might make a blog post or at least its own thread once we've workshopped it a bit in here.

Lee wants me to be very clear that the systems described below will not be in soon; likely they'd happen sometime after settlements, given the tech dependencies and priorities.

That caveat out of the way, here's the revised idea inspired by suggestions from this thread. Your further criticisms and suggestions should follow :) .

Blinds
Given how our placement of structures changed from Ryan's original conception of hideouts, we've broken the "knocking people out of fast travel" functionality into its own structure. These are meant to be extremely temporary (basically the idea of just a hole or pile of bushes and a log you roll across the road), rather than formal hideouts. If hideouts interdicted fast travel over a whole hex, it seems likely that people would make it a priority to find the hideout PoI and destroy it. Blinds also let bandits potentially interdict fast travel in hexes they don't own.

  • Blinds are a temporary construction you put down (construction method TBD and highly tech dependent). They're some kind of object that's not glaringly obvious. The users will need to be able to click it, but it might have its own Stealth rating so it's not visible until you're on top of it. TBD how you place it or craft it.
  • It has a small radius where you get a Stealth bonus as if it were an aura. Being in this aura is basically admitting to being up to no good; if someone in your party issues a S&D from it, you'll also automatically join in (see below).
  • Clicking it lets you turn off or on an aura that knocks people out of fast travel. This aura is basically big enough that you can put the blind near a road and catch people on the road. You can turn it on or off so you can let scarier groups through without stopping them. (Hopefully we can spawn a log model across the road when you've got it turned on.)
  • It has a large radius around it that increases the range of S&D inspection. Normally, you can only inspect a target prior to issuing S&D from a short distance away, but if they're in the blind's radius, you can do it up to visual range (and you might have a lookout up the road that passes the details to you to decide whether to roll out the log or not).
  • Settlements can make it illegal to deploy a Blind in their territory (potentially getting at least one Bandit the Criminal flag long before S&Ding anyone).

Goblin Squad Member

I wonder if we should do carts/mules/mounts etc. like carried items themselves. There is a chance they will be destroyed when they are taken, and there is a chance they will remain in-tact.

Goblin Squad Member

I think it would make sense that a suitably skilled and organized group of bandits should be able to gain control of the caravan animals and wagons/carts (undamaged), and lead them back with them.

In the heat of battle, the animals may bolt, so it would likely require some suitable "Handle Animal" skill or similar to prevent that and may require one or more of the bandits to focus on calming the team animals rather than fighting.

Also, the bandits should need some sort of teamster skills to be able to effectively lead the animals once controlled.

And lastly, the bandits of course would then find themselves in the position of operating the caravan, and be vulnerable to attack by other bandits as well :)

Goblin Squad Member

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The cart / mule / mount could be an item that takes up a utility slot, and then it could be threaded, looted or destroyed.

Goblin Squad Member

Bluddwolf wrote:
The cart / mule / mount could be an item that takes up a utility slot, and then it could be threaded, looted or destroyed.

I like that idea.

Goblin Squad Member

Harad Navar wrote:

@Bringslite, I see blinds as a necessary settlement defense mechanism from the very start of EE.

•It is my belief that very early in EE there will be efforts to take/destroy initial Land Rush settlements before they can be functionally fortified, and before the introduction of siege engines and unit combat.
•So far I do not have any indication (if I remember correctly) that Land Rush settlements will be provided with walls.
•I believe that some settlement buildings may be destroyed by groups of characters without siege engines.
•I suspect that settlement hexes, when the settlement is initiated, will have considerable empty space, making the placement of blinds possible.
•Blinds will be very useful in defending outposts and some PoIs which can be destroyed by characters without siege engines.

There are certainly many possibilities to use a "Blind" mechanic defensively. A lot of your suggestions will depend on the details of where it can be used.

Stephen Cheney wrote:
•Clicking it lets you turn off or on an aura that knocks people out of fast travel. This aura is basically big enough that you can put the blind near a road and catch people on the road. You can turn it on or off so you can let scarier groups through without stopping them. (Hopefully we can spawn a log model across the road when you've got it turned on.)

That suggests that it's first function is to drop people from fast travel. It may get expanded to stop you during "regular" travel also. That would be pure speculation at this point.

Still, affecting your opponents movements is useful in all kinds of ways...

P.S. I didn't just "favorite" Stephen's first post about it because I thought it was great for banditry kind. :)

Goblin Squad Member

Still gotta ask, why not have fake wagons work the way assassin disguises work? Illusionary goods will be pro though, as will the detection of such illusions.

Goblin Squad Member

Darcnes wrote:
Still gotta ask, why not have fake wagons work the way assassin disguises work? Illusionary goods will be pro though, as will the detection of such illusions.

Well, I can see some possibilities in it as a decoy deal, i.e. sending out two + caravans in different directions, possibly misleading when and where "goods/supplies" are being concentrated, etc...

So I can see it working in some way similar to the assassin disguise mechanic and having some value for some strategies. Making something look different than what it "is". Being a "faction" skill gained when the right "hoops" are jumped.

One thing to consider about all of it... A bandit only knows what may be in/on the caravan/traveler after they "inspect" it. Which is after they stop it. (at least as far as I know of current info) The jig "is up" at that point, beyond a minute or two more of delay: Seeing "false goods", making a S&D, getting boxes of "rocks" in the exchange.

This would all have more impact (for misleading and disguise) if you had an idea what a caravan has by viewing at a distance. If they go back to robbers having some clue at distance. Maybe they will...

Goblin Squad Member

And I would see the bandit does not know about the cargo by looking at it but by investment in intelligence at the source or transshipment "city". Bandit would know (within a percentage) of the guards, merchants or other features visibly traveling with the cargo and its weight or size by observation of appearance, wheel depression, or animal behavior )as skills would indicate). When animals are improved, such that they are not interchangeable, then that may also be of import.

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