Cantrip Daze + Extend Spell


Rules Questions


I'm starting a PFS scenario tomorrow and while picking my wizard's spells this occured to me.

My wizard has the trait Magical Lineage: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/magic-traits/magical-lineage

If I prepare the cantrip Daze with extend spell
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/daze.html#_daze

1. Does it still count as a cantrip so I can cast it as many times as I want in a day?

2. Does the daze effect last for 2 rounds instead of 1?

Thanks in advance


I don't think you can apply it to a cantrip, because that would make its starting level -1. I do think it would get the longer duration, but I don't think you can get the -1 level effect on it.


What do you mean it would be starting level -1.

Magical Lineage only applies if you apply a metamagic feat with at least a +1 level adjustment.

So regular Daze, ML has no effect (no metamagic).
A Tenebrous Daze, ML has no effect (metamagic +0).
Extended Daze, ML applies, cancels out +1 from metamagic, net result level 0.
Coaxing Daze, ML applies, reduces level adjustment from +2 to +1, net result level 1.


Magical Lineage doesn't reduce the level adjustment of the feat, it reduces the level of the base spell by one before you apply the feat.

"When you apply metamagic feats to this spell that add at least 1 level to the spell, treat its actual level as 1 lower for determining the spell's final adjusted level."

"Actual level" refers to the level of the original spell. So we'd be treating the cantrip as level -1, since it was originally level 0. I would not allow that.


Yes you would make Daze last 2 rounds. But you cannot cast Daze on a target more than once per minute.


Should work. There's no reason you couldn't treat it's level as one lower so long as the final adjusted spell level makes sense.

Lantern Lodge

Jayder22 wrote:

I'm starting a PFS scenario tomorrow and while picking my wizard's spells this occured to me.

My wizard has the trait Magical Lineage: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/magic-traits/magical-lineage

If I prepare the cantrip Daze with extend spell
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/daze.html#_daze

1. Does it still count as a cantrip so I can cast it as many times as I want in a day?

2. Does the daze effect last for 2 rounds instead of 1?

Thanks in advance

Everyone is assuming that you took "Daze" as your one spell that Magical Lineage applies to. You do realize you have to pick one spell when you take the trait and you can never change it? I just mention this because after reading your OP, it sounds to me like you might be thinking you can use Magical Lineage with any spell or that you can choose which spell to apply it to when you prepare spells.


Yeah, Daze is going to run out of milage REAL quick.


Very much so. I wouldn't take daze as my one and only magical lineage spell.


seebs wrote:

Magical Lineage doesn't reduce the level adjustment of the feat, it reduces the level of the base spell by one before you apply the feat.

"When you apply metamagic feats to this spell that add at least 1 level to the spell, treat its actual level as 1 lower for determining the spell's final adjusted level."

"Actual level" refers to the level of the original spell. So we'd be treating the cantrip as level -1, since it was originally level 0. I would not allow that.

But even so, it is always only part of a formula including other factors.

I get what your saying about 0-1=-1, but it can never be simply 0-1.

It will always be 0-1+X (where X is at least 1) getting us back to 0 (or higher).

It doesn't actually lower the spell level, we only "treat its actual level as 1 lower for determining the spell's final adjusted level."

If it couldn't be applied to a Cantrip, you would expect that limitation to be called out in the trait such as "Choose a single 1st level or higher spell...."

Still, with your clarification, I understand your reasoning now.


FuelDrop wrote:
Yeah, Daze is going to run out of milage REAL quick.

I don't think anyone said it would be a great idea.....

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